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Re: [mythsoc] Fw: "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide: Chronology: 1"

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  • John Davis
    Ah, that s great - thanks very much. John ... From: Wayne G. Hammond To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [mythsoc]
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 15, 2013
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      Ah, that's great - thanks very much.
       
      John
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 1:10 PM
      Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Fw: "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide: Chronology: 1"

       

      Please do you have a copy of this almost 1000 page long book?
       
      If so, please  would you have the strength to look up an event in 1968 when the BBC made a film of a reception which launched Bilbo's Last Song?

      The BBC film of 1968 was Tolkien in Oxford. But this was entirely separate from the reception and performance on 14 March 1968, at Crosby Hall, Chelsea, which launched the Allen & Unwin edition of The Road Goes Ever On: A Song Cycle, Donald Swann's setting of poems by Tolkien. But that work, at that time, did not contain 'Bilbo's Last Song', which wasn't published until 1974; the poem was added to The Road Goes Ever On in 1978.

      Wayne & Christina

    • SherryT
      Wayne, that was remarkably quick and succinct. Far too late, may I offer the following Google links? I have no idea if they will prove helpful. (BTW, I did not
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 15, 2013
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        Wayne, that was remarkably quick and succinct.

        Far too late, may I offer the following Google links? I have no idea if they will prove helpful.

        (BTW, I did not like Donald Swann's piano accompaniment. It never sounded proper for the Shire. I suspect the hobbits of Hobbiton would have found the sound quite a culture shock, even if played at the Green Dragon.

        Search Results

        1. NationMaster - Encyclopedia: The Hobbit (1968 radio series)

          www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/The-Hobbit-(1968-radio-series)
          The Hobbit is a 1968 BBC Radio adaptation of J. R. R. Tolkien's 1937 children's fantasy novel The Hobbit. 1968 (MCMLXVIII) was a leap year starting on Monday (the link is to a full 1968 ..... Bilbos Last Song is a poem by J. R. R. Tolkien.
        2. Bilbo's Last Song, Revised | GeekDad | Wired.com

          www.wired.com/geekdad/2012/11/bilbos-last-song-revised/

          Matt Forbeck
          by Matt Forbeck - in 852 Google+ circles - More by Matt Forbeck
          Nov 15, 2012 – It was never included in the text of Tolkien's saga, though. His secretary Joy Hill discovered it in his library in 1968, and he gave it to her as a gift ...




        -----Original Message-----
        From: Wayne G. Hammond <Wayne.G.Hammond@...>
        To: mythsoc <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tue, Jan 15, 2013 8:10 am
        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Fw: "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide: Chronology: 1"



        Please do you have a copy of this almost 1000 page long book?
         
        If so, please  would you have the strength to look up an event in 1968 when the BBC made a film of a reception which launched Bilbo's Last Song?

        The BBC film of 1968 was Tolkien in Oxford. But this was entirely separate from the reception and performance on 14 March 1968, at Crosby Hall, Chelsea, which launched the Allen & Unwin edition of The Road Goes Ever On: A Song Cycle, Donald Swann's setting of poems by Tolkien. But that work, at that time, did not contain 'Bilbo's Last Song', which wasn't published until 1974; the poem was added to The Road Goes Ever On in 1978.

        Wayne & Christina


      • Mich
        does any one know on this topic of the road go s ever on the Donald swan song scikle if this has ever been put out on cd? and where one might obtain a copy?
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 15, 2013
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          does any one know on this topic of the road go's ever on the Donald swan song scikle if this has ever been put out on cd? and where one might obtain a copy? from Mich.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: SherryT
          Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 8:58 AM
          Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Fw: "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide: Chronology: 1"

           

          Wayne, that was remarkably quick and succinct.

          Far too late, may I offer the following Google links? I have no idea if they will prove helpful.

          (BTW, I did not like Donald Swann's piano accompaniment. It never sounded proper for the Shire. I suspect the hobbits of Hobbiton would have found the sound quite a culture shock, even if played at the Green Dragon.

          Search Results

          1. NationMaster - Encyclopedia: The Hobbit (1968 radio series)

            www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/The-Hobbit-(1968-radio-series)
            The Hobbit is a 1968 BBC Radio adaptation of J. R. R. Tolkien's 1937 children's fantasy novel The Hobbit. 1968 (MCMLXVIII) was a leap year starting on Monday (the link is to a full 1968 ..... Bilbos Last Song is a poem by J. R. R. Tolkien.
          2. Bilbo's Last Song, Revised | GeekDad | Wired.com

            www.wired.com/geekdad/2012/11/bilbos-last-song-revised/

            Matt Forbeck
            by Matt Forbeck - in 852 Google+ circles - More by Matt Forbeck
            Nov 15, 2012 – It was never included in the text of Tolkien's saga, though. His secretary Joy Hill discovered it in his library in 1968, and he gave it to her as a gift ...




          -----Original Message-----
          From: Wayne G. Hammond <Wayne.G.Hammond@...>
          To: mythsoc <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tue, Jan 15, 2013 8:10 am
          Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Fw: "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide: Chronology: 1"



          Please do you have a copy of this almost 1000 page long book?
           
          If so, please  would you have the strength to look up an event in 1968 when the BBC made a film of a reception which launched Bilbo's Last Song?

          The BBC film of 1968 was Tolkien in Oxford. But this was entirely separate from the reception and performance on 14 March 1968, at Crosby Hall, Chelsea, which launched the Allen & Unwin edition of The Road Goes Ever On: A Song Cycle, Donald Swann's setting of poems by Tolkien. But that work, at that time, did not contain 'Bilbo's Last Song', which wasn't published until 1974; the poem was added to The Road Goes Ever On in 1978.

          Wayne & Christina


        • Mike Foster
          The Wade Collection includes a letter from JRRT recalling the delightful time that he and Edith had at the reception and performance of the Swann cucle. Mike
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 15, 2013
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            The Wade Collection includes a letter from JRRT recalling the delightful time that he and Edith had at the reception and performance of the Swann cucle.
             
            Mike
             
            Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 7:13 AM
            Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Fw: "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide: Chronology: 1"
             
             

            Ah, that's great - thanks very much.
             
            John
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 1:10 PM
            Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Fw: "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide: Chronology: 1"
             
             

            Please do you have a copy of this almost 1000 page long book?
             
            If so, please  would you have the strength to look up an event in 1968 when the BBC made a film of a reception which launched Bilbo's Last Song?

            The BBC film of 1968 was Tolkien in Oxford. But this was entirely separate from the reception and performance on 14 March 1968, at Crosby Hall, Chelsea, which launched the Allen & Unwin edition of The Road Goes Ever On: A Song Cycle, Donald Swann's setting of poems by Tolkien. But that work, at that time, did not contain 'Bilbo's Last Song', which wasn't published until 1974; the poem was added to The Road Goes Ever On in 1978.

            Wayne & Christina
          • stephane_grignon
            Since all of you are asking for some tunes related to Tolkien I just add my voice to ask if someone can help me to find this less serious music found in Ralph
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 15, 2013
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              Since all of you are asking for some tunes related to Tolkien I just add my voice to ask if someone can help me to find this less serious music found in Ralph Bakshi's Lord of the Rings ->
              By Leonard Rosenmann " the man in the moon" sung by Frodo
              My 11 years old girl is fond of this almost lullaby for her in her early evenings.

              Anglin
              (I promess my next post will be more serious)
            • John Rateliff
              ... I have it on record (vinyl) and cassette, but not cds. --John R.
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 15, 2013
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                On Jan 15, 2013, at 6:24 AM, Mich wrote:
                does any one know on this topic of the road go's ever on the Donald swan song scikle if this has ever been put out on cd? and where one might obtain a copy? from Mich.


                I have it on record (vinyl) and cassette, but not cds.
                   --John R.

              • Troels Forchhammer
                I have a CD of the songs that came with my copy of the book (the 2002 edition). Looking at the prices on Amazon suggests that the book is now out of print and
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 15, 2013
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                  I have a CD of the songs that came with my copy of the book (the 2002 edition). 

                  Looking at the prices on Amazon suggests that the book is now out of print and being sold at an insane price second-hand. 

                  /Troels


                  On 15 January 2013 21:50, John Rateliff <sacnoth@...> wrote:


                  On Jan 15, 2013, at 6:24 AM, Mich wrote:
                  does any one know on this topic of the road go's ever on the Donald swan song scikle if this has ever been put out on cd? and where one might obtain a copy? from Mich.


                  I have it on record (vinyl) and cassette, but not cds.
                     --John R.

                  --
                      Love while you've got
                          love to give.
                      Live while you've got
                          life to live.
                   - Piet Hein, /Memento Vivere/
                • Sara Ciborski
                  I too have this CD, which came with the book. It s wonderful (and mine s not for sale). (long lurking) Sara Ciborski ... -- Sara Ciborski 603-313-2625 655
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 15, 2013
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                    I too have this CD, which came with the book. It's wonderful (and mine's not for sale).
                    (long lurking) Sara Ciborski

                    On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Troels Forchhammer <troelsfo@...> wrote:
                     

                    I have a CD of the songs that came with my copy of the book (the 2002 edition). 

                    Looking at the prices on Amazon suggests that the book is now out of print and being sold at an insane price second-hand. 

                    /Troels


                    On 15 January 2013 21:50, John Rateliff <sacnoth@...> wrote:


                    On Jan 15, 2013, at 6:24 AM, Mich wrote:
                    does any one know on this topic of the road go's ever on the Donald swan song scikle if this has ever been put out on cd? and where one might obtain a copy? from Mich.


                    I have it on record (vinyl) and cassette, but not cds.
                       --John R.

                    --
                        Love while you've got
                            love to give.
                        Live while you've got
                            life to live.
                     - Piet Hein, /Memento Vivere/




                    --
                    Sara Ciborski
                    603-313-2625
                    655 Gilsum Mine Road
                    Alstead, NH 03602
                  • John Rateliff
                    ... Thanks for that, Troeis. I have a copy of the third edition, which does indeed come with this cd (stuck in the back), which I had completely forgotten
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 16, 2013
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                      On Jan 15, 2013, at 2:06 PM, Troels Forchhammer wrote:
                      I have a CD of the songs that came with my copy of the book (the 2002 edition). 
                      Looking at the prices on Amazon suggests that the book is now out of print and being sold at an insane price second-hand. 
                      /Troels


                      Thanks for that, Troeis. I have a copy of the third edition, which does indeed come with this cd (stuck in the back), which I had completely forgotten about. So I dug it out and listened to it for the first time today.
                         I'm sorry to say Wm Elvin's singing is no better than I remembered. Somehow I can't suspend my disbelief that Sam found a piano in Cirith Ungol to accompany himself for "In Western Lands". Though still the Treebeard song remains my favorite.
                         The second edition of the book had added "Bilbo'd Last Song" to the eight in the original; the cd in this third edition includes a recording of this song by Swann himself, whose vocals I much prefer to Elvin's. It has a spoken-word intro by Swann wh. makes me regret all the more that he wasn't able to perform the song-cycle at the 1992 Centennial Conference.
                         There's also a new, tenth, song on the cd: "Luthien Tinuviel", from THE SILMARILLION, sung by Clive McCombie (in the same unfortunately style of Elvin). 


                      On Jan 15, 2013, at 8:23 AM, stephane_grignon wrote:
                      Since all of you are asking for some tunes related to Tolkien I just add my voice to ask if someone can help me to find this less serious music found in Ralph Bakshi's Lord of the Rings ->
                      By Leonard Rosenmann " the man in the moon" sung by Frodo
                      My 11 years old girl is fond of this almost lullaby for her in her early evenings. 

                      Don't know the answer to that one: it's not on the soundtrack cd, which is all-instrumental. 
                    • David Bratman
                      ... Tolkien liked his name, but he s not a very good singer: stiff and inexpressive. Every other performance of the cycle I ve heard (all live; I don t know
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 16, 2013
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                        "John Rateliff" <sacnoth@...> wrote:

                        >I'm sorry to say Wm Elvin's singing is no better than I remembered.

                        Tolkien liked his name, but he's not a very good singer: stiff and
                        inexpressive. Every other performance of the cycle I've heard (all live; I
                        don't know of any other recordings) I've liked better.

                        >Somehow I can't suspend my disbelief that Sam found a piano in Cirith Ungol
                        >to accompany himself for "In Western Lands".

                        Swann has gotten a lot of unjustified criticism for this. Except for
                        "Namarie", for which he used Tolkien's own melody, Swann's songs shouldn't
                        be thought of as the "actual" music of the secondary world, but as Swann's
                        own artistic responses to Tolkien's poetry, in the manner of art songs by
                        the likes of Schubert on down.
                      • John Davis
                        Peter Jackson has gotten a lost of unjustified criticism...Except for occasional moments where he used Tolkien s own words, Jackson s films shouldn t be
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 17, 2013
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                          Peter Jackson has gotten a lost of unjustified criticism...Except for occasional moments where he used Tolkien's own words, Jackson's films shouldn't be thought of as the 'actual' representation of the secondary world, but as Jackson's own artistic responses to Tolkien's books.
                           
                          Disclaimer: that was a joke. A joke, I tell you. Insert smiley faces and multiple exclamation marks if necessary. It absolutely wasn't intended to rekindle the tired old debate.
                           
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 6:54 AM
                          Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Fw: "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide: Chronology: 1"

                           

                          "John Rateliff" sacnoth@...> wrote:

                          >I'm sorry to say Wm Elvin's singing is no better than I remembered.

                          Tolkien liked his name, but he's not a very good singer: stiff and
                          inexpressive. Every other performance of the cycle I've heard (all live; I
                          don't know of any other recordings) I've liked better.

                          >Somehow I can't suspend my disbelief that Sam found a piano in Cirith Ungol
                          >to accompany himself for "In Western Lands".

                          Swann has gotten a lot of unjustified criticism for this. Except for
                          "Namarie", for which he used Tolkien's own melody, Swann's songs shouldn't
                          be thought of as the "actual" music of the secondary world, but as Swann's
                          own artistic responses to Tolkien's poetry, in the manner of art songs by
                          the likes of Schubert on down.

                        • John Davis
                          A joke with added typo, sadly. Sigh. lost=lot. Obviously. ... From: John Davis To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 3:10 PM Subject:
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jan 17, 2013
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                            A joke with added typo, sadly. Sigh. lost=lot. Obviously.
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 3:10 PM
                            Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Fw: "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide: Chronology: 1"

                             

                            Peter Jackson has gotten a lost of unjustified criticism...Except for occasional moments where he used Tolkien's own words, Jackson's films shouldn't be thought of as the 'actual' representation of the secondary world, but as Jackson's own artistic responses to Tolkien's books.
                             
                            Disclaimer: that was a joke. A joke, I tell you. Insert smiley faces and multiple exclamation marks if necessary. It absolutely wasn't intended to rekindle the tired old debate.
                             
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 6:54 AM
                            Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Fw: "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide: Chronology: 1"

                             

                            "John Rateliff" sacnoth@...> wrote:

                            >I'm sorry to say Wm Elvin's singing is no better than I remembered.

                            Tolkien liked his name, but he's not a very good singer: stiff and
                            inexpressive. Every other performance of the cycle I've heard (all live; I
                            don't know of any other recordings) I've liked better.

                            >Somehow I can't suspend my disbelief that Sam found a piano in Cirith Ungol
                            >to accompany himself for "In Western Lands".

                            Swann has gotten a lot of unjustified criticism for this. Except for
                            "Namarie", for which he used Tolkien's own melody, Swann's songs shouldn't
                            be thought of as the "actual" music of the secondary world, but as Swann's
                            own artistic responses to Tolkien's poetry, in the manner of art songs by
                            the likes of Schubert on down.

                          • David Bratman
                            ... If it wasn t meant to do so, you shouldn t have said it. There s one big difference above all. Swann s musical setting is just one among many. It s not
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jan 17, 2013
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                              John Davis wrote:

                              >Peter Jackson has gotten a lost of unjustified
                              >criticism...Except for occasional moments where he used Tolkien's own
                              >words,
                              >Jackson's films shouldn't be thought of as the 'actual' representation of
                              >the
                              >secondary world, but as Jackson's own artistic responses to Tolkien's
                              >books.
                              >
                              >Disclaimer: that was a joke. A joke, I tell
                              >you. Insert smiley faces and multiple exclamation marks if necessary. It
                              >absolutely wasn't intended to rekindle the tired old debate.


                              If it wasn't meant to do so, you shouldn't have said it.

                              There's one big difference above all. Swann's musical setting is just one
                              among many. It's not being widely touted as the incarnation of every
                              Tolkien fan's dream to hear his poetry set to music, acclaimed as
                              rejuvenating a tired old book, etc etc.

                              If Jackson's movie were just one of a dozen or more dramatic interpretations
                              of Tolkien out in the marketplace, and none of them got any particular
                              hoopla, I'd be delighted to offer my own particular opinion of its merits
                              (which I do not consider to be zero), listen to others' opinions, and leave
                              it at that, which is what we do with the Tolkien music. And also what we do
                              with Tolkien fan fiction and movies: "The Hunt for Gollum" four years ago
                              got a certain amount of abuse, but even those who liked it didn't try to
                              defend it with the rapture that Jackson's defenders brought to it.

                              I would be DELIGHTED if Jackson fans treated his work as an entirely
                              separate work of art whose only connection to Tolkien's was that Jackson was
                              artistically inspired by him. And, indeed, scholarly articles on Jackson
                              that make no reference to Tolkien, or that compare the two the way they'd
                              compare Tolkien to any other similar author, are making their appearance.

                              The only objections that I'm making, and that I have made all along, are to
                              the claim that Jackson's movies do fairly incarnate the book, and to the
                              contradictory (but sometimes made by the same people) claim that if they
                              don't, they were forced not to by commercial considerations. See my article
                              in "Tolkien on Film" nearly a decade ago, which has those as its two
                              headings. If I don't personally like the movies very much, I have
                              absolutely no objection to other people liking them more.
                            • Doug Kane
                              John, I thought it was funny (and I read lot for lost). From: John Davis Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 7:12 AM To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jan 17, 2013
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                                John, I thought it was funny (and I read lot for lost).

                                Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 7:12 AM
                                Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Fw: "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide: Chronology: 1"

                                 

                                A joke with added typo, sadly. Sigh. lost=lot. Obviously.
                                 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 3:10 PM
                                Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Fw: "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide: Chronology: 1"

                                 

                                Peter Jackson has gotten a lost of unjustified criticism...Except for occasional moments where he used Tolkien's own words, Jackson's films shouldn't be thought of as the 'actual' representation of the secondary world, but as Jackson's own artistic responses to Tolkien's books.
                                 
                                Disclaimer: that was a joke. A joke, I tell you. Insert smiley faces and multiple exclamation marks if necessary. It absolutely wasn't intended to rekindle the tired old debate.
                                 
                                 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 6:54 AM
                                Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Fw: "The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide: Chronology: 1"

                                 

                                "John Rateliff" sacnoth@...> wrote:

                                >I'm sorry to say Wm Elvin's singing is no better than I remembered.

                                Tolkien liked his name, but he's not a very good singer: stiff and
                                inexpressive. Every other performance of the cycle I've heard (all live; I
                                don't know of any other recordings) I've liked better.

                                >Somehow I can't suspend my disbelief that Sam found a piano in Cirith Ungol
                                >to accompany himself for "In Western Lands".

                                Swann has gotten a lot of unjustified criticism for this. Except for
                                "Namarie", for which he used Tolkien's own melody, Swann's songs shouldn't
                                be thought of as the "actual" music of the secondary world, but as Swann's
                                own artistic responses to Tolkien's poetry, in the manner of art songs by
                                the likes of Schubert on down.

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