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Harry Potter, Variorum

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  • Stolzi@aol.com
    Last night I compared Chapter 1 in both the UK and US editions. I doubt this project will go any further, but it s always possible it might. Title of course
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 13, 2000
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      Last night I compared Chapter 1 in both the UK and US editions. I doubt this
      project will go any further, but it's always possible it might.

      Title of course is the major change.

      US [Harry Potter and] The Sorcerer's Stone UK The Philosopher's Stone

      Ch. 1

      The usual spelling changes (UK -ise, US -ize and so forth) and a startling
      change from US "toward," to UK "towards."

      The "car park" (UK) at Grunnings Drills becomes the "parking lot" (US). Yet
      the UK usage "in" a street, not "on," is unchanged.

      Baby Dudley's new word, "Shan't!" (UK) becomes "Won't!" (US). Mr Dursley
      refers to Harry's mother and "her lot" in UK; in the US edition it's "her
      crowd." But Dudley still (according to Prof MacGonagall) "screams for
      sweets" in both countries. And the "Underground" remains the "Underground"
      in America.

      The "sherbet lemons" (candies) eaten by Dumbledore in the UK version become
      the familiar-to-Americans "lemon drops" in the US edn. I don't know if a
      "sherbet lemon" is the same thing or not.

      More confusingly, Mr. Dursley goes across the street in the UK edition "to
      the baker's opposite" to buy a doughnut (yes, it's still a doughnut on both
      sides of the pond) - in the US edition, he goes to "the bakery." Were the
      editors afraid American children might think the "baker's opposite" to be a
      person, - if so who would it be? The Butcher? The Candlestick-Maker? The
      Anti-Baker? :)

      Hagrid (so far) talks just the same.

      As Chapter 2 begins, we have two more changes. "Stove" (US) for "cooker"
      (UK) is no surprise, but the pictures of Baby Dudley in the UK show him in
      "bobble hats" and in the US in "bonnets."

      And that's as far as I went.

      Mary S
    • Stolzi@aol.com
      Oh yes, Bonfire Night too is kept and not explained. (It seems this is what the English now call Guy Fawkes Day.) Mary S
      Message 2 of 22 , Sep 14, 2000
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        Oh yes, "Bonfire Night" too is kept and not explained.

        (It seems this is what the English now call Guy Fawkes Day.)

        Mary S
      • Wayne G. Hammond
        ... Towards is the common UK spelling, -ize the OED standard which many in (or from) Britain ignore in favor (or favour) of -ise. ... Not much they could do
        Message 3 of 22 , Sep 14, 2000
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          Mary S wrote:

          >The usual spelling changes (UK -ise, US -ize and so forth) and a startling
          >change from US "toward," to UK "towards."

          "Towards" is the common UK spelling, -ize the OED standard which many in
          (or from) Britain ignore in favor (or favour) of -ise.

          >And the "Underground" remains the "Underground"
          >in America.

          Not much they could do about that, since the books make it clear that
          Harry's in England, and leaves from a rail station in London, where they
          have the capital-U Underground, and anyway we have more than one word for
          the same thing in the U.S. -- subway, metro, rapid transit, etc.

          >More confusingly, Mr. Dursley goes across the street in the UK edition "to
          >the baker's opposite" to buy a doughnut (yes, it's still a doughnut on both
          >sides of the pond) - in the US edition, he goes to "the bakery." Were the
          >editors afraid American children might think the "baker's opposite" to be a
          >person, - if so who would it be? The Butcher? The Candlestick-Maker? The
          >Anti-Baker? :)

          "Bakery" makes me think of a bread factory more than a shop.

          >As Chapter 2 begins, we have two more changes. "Stove" (US) for "cooker"
          >(UK) is no surprise, but the pictures of Baby Dudley in the UK show him in
          >"bobble hats" and in the US in "bonnets."

          My English wife says that a "bobble hat" has a tufted ball on top, so is
          hardly the same as American "bonnet".

          >Oh yes, "Bonfire Night" too is kept and not explained.
          >
          >(It seems this is what the English now call Guy Fawkes Day.)

          They call it by both names.

          Scholastic should have just put a glossary in the back of the U.S. edition.
          Easier for them, and non-destructive to the text.

          Wayne Hammond
        • Diane Joy Baker
          ... From: Wayne G. Hammond To: Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 10:49 PM Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Harry
          Message 4 of 22 , Sep 14, 2000
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            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Wayne G. Hammond <Wayne.G.Hammond@...>
            To: <mythsoc@egroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 10:49 PM
            Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Harry Potter, Variorum


            >
            > My English wife says that a "bobble hat" has a tufted ball on top, so is
            > hardly the same as American "bonnet".

            "Bonnet" implies a rather large brimmed hat, IIRC. I suspect your "bobble
            hat" looks more like one of those knitted beanie things Midwestern kids are
            saddled with in winter (cf. Mom's arming of Ralphie against the onslaughts
            of winter in "A Christmas Story.") Does it get chilly enough to need them
            in Harry's part of England? ---djb.
            >
            >
            >
            > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
            >
            >
          • WendellWag@aol.com
            The problem is that we ve got items here where there s a word in one country but no single word in the other country to match it. Those pullover hats that
            Message 5 of 22 , Sep 15, 2000
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              The problem is that we've got items here where there's a word in one country
              but no single word in the other country to match it. Those pullover hats
              that Midwesterners wear in the winter don't seem to have any more specific
              name for Americans than "wool hats". Canadians though call them "toques".
              But I don't think this is what is meant by "bobble hat" in the U.K. I can't
              find an entry in any of the dictionaries I've checked for "bobble hat".
              There is an entry in the OED though for "bobble". It means a small woolen
              ball that is used as decoration on various sorts of clothes. It appears then
              that "bobble hat" means some kind of hat that has small wollen balls attached
              as decoration.

              Wendell Wagner
            • Berni Phillips
              ... But there is also the baby bonnet, a close-fitting cloth hat which is tied under the baby s chin. Sometimes this has a small ruffle on the edge framing
              Message 6 of 22 , Sep 15, 2000
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                >From: "Diane Joy Baker" <dianejoy@...>


                >>From: Wayne G. Hammond <Wayne.G.Hammond@...>
                >
                >> My English wife says that a "bobble hat" has a tufted ball on top, so is
                >> hardly the same as American "bonnet".
                >
                >"Bonnet" implies a rather large brimmed hat, IIRC. I suspect your "bobble
                >hat" looks more like one of those knitted beanie things Midwestern kids are
                >saddled with in winter (cf. Mom's arming of Ralphie against the onslaughts
                >of winter in "A Christmas Story.") Does it get chilly enough to need them
                >in Harry's part of England? ---djb.

                But there is also the "baby bonnet," a close-fitting cloth hat which is tied
                under the baby's chin. Sometimes this has a small ruffle on the edge
                framing the face.

                Berni
              • Stolzi@aol.com
                In a message dated 09/14/2000 9:58:02 PM Central Daylight Time, ... Our boys as littluns had two hats (one apiece!) with large woollen balls on top as you
                Message 7 of 22 , Sep 15, 2000
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                  In a message dated 09/14/2000 9:58:02 PM Central Daylight Time,
                  Wayne.G.Hammond@... writes:

                  >
                  > My English wife says that a "bobble hat" has a tufted ball on top, so is
                  > hardly the same as American "bonnet"

                  Our boys as littluns had two hats (one apiece!) with large woollen balls on
                  top as you describe (one per hat). This led to tears when son 1 decided to
                  start taunting son 2 with "You Got a Pom Pom, You Got a Pom Pom!" We were
                  never sure just what was so insulting about this.

                  Returning you to your regularly scheduled topic,

                  Mary S
                • Stolzi@aol.com
                  In a message dated 09/15/2000 6:24:26 AM Central Daylight Time, ... Thought that we called them stocking caps or ski caps . Mary S
                  Message 8 of 22 , Sep 15, 2000
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                    In a message dated 09/15/2000 6:24:26 AM Central Daylight Time,
                    WendellWag@... writes:

                    > Those pullover hats
                    > that Midwesterners wear in the winter don't seem to have any more specific
                    > name for Americans than "wool hats".

                    Thought that we called them "stocking caps" or "ski caps".

                    Mary S
                  • WendellWag@aol.com
                    In a message dated 9/15/00 11:23:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Stolzi@aol.com writes: O.K., I
                    Message 9 of 22 , Sep 15, 2000
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                      In a message dated 9/15/00 11:23:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Stolzi@...
                      writes:

                      << Thought that we called them "stocking caps" or "ski caps". >>

                      O.K., I guess that they could be called "ski caps", although I wouldn't use
                      that term. I thought the term "stocking cap" though applied to light cloth
                      caps of the same shape. You know, the ones that people supposedly wore to
                      bed.

                      Wendell Wagner
                    • Trudy Shaw
                      ... edition. ... -- and the kids might actually learn something about language!
                      Message 10 of 22 , Sep 16, 2000
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                        > Scholastic should have just put a glossary in the back of the U.S.
                        edition.
                        > Easier for them, and non-destructive to the text.
                        >
                        > Wayne Hammond


                        -- and the kids might actually learn something about language!
                      • Paul F. Labaki
                        Here in my part of the country -- Buffalo, NY -- we generally use the term ski cap or ski hat to refer to any knitted hat used to keep the head warm in
                        Message 11 of 22 , Sep 16, 2000
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                          Here in my part of the country -- Buffalo, NY -- we generally use the term
                          "ski cap" or "ski hat" to refer to any knitted hat used to keep the head
                          warm in winter, whether made out of wool or cotton. With a ball, without,
                          or with other ornamentation, all are ski hats and do a good job of keeping
                          the head and body warm while allowing the first stages of frost bite to set
                          in on the ears. If they have a ball attached, they are just ski hats with a
                          ball attached.
                          Peace,
                          Paul Labaki

                          > From: WendellWag@...
                          > Reply-To: mythsoc@egroups.com
                          > Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 01:14:13 EDT
                          > To: mythsoc@egroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Harry Potter, Variorum
                          >
                          >
                          > In a message dated 9/15/00 11:23:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Stolzi@...
                          > writes:
                          >
                          > << Thought that we called them "stocking caps" or "ski caps". >>
                          >
                          > O.K., I guess that they could be called "ski caps", although I wouldn't use
                          > that term. I thought the term "stocking cap" though applied to light cloth
                          > caps of the same shape. You know, the ones that people supposedly wore to
                          > bed.
                          >
                          > Wendell Wagner
                          >
                          > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                          >
                        • Stolzi@aol.com
                          Well, the changes go on but I don t think they re worth listing. There are none in the curious speech of Hagrid. Does any UK native here recognize it as a
                          Message 12 of 22 , Sep 16, 2000
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                            Well, the changes go on but I don't think they're worth listing. There are
                            none in the curious speech of Hagrid. Does any UK native here recognize it
                            as a particular dialect? I've read tons of British books and never come
                            across anything quite like it.

                            I will mention however that when Harry has a discarded sweater ("jumper") of
                            Dudley's forced upon him, it is one which has "bobbles." In the American
                            edition these become "puff balls."

                            The funny thing about this is that any American knitter worth her salt knows
                            about bobbles and how to make them. A "puff ball" sounds more like a
                            mushroom.

                            And the American "translator" has still not given us any line on what a
                            "knickerbocker glory" is (eaten by Dudley and Harry at the Zoo in Chapter
                            Two).

                            In my re-read I once again became convinced that this is a dandy work of
                            children's fantasy which deserves its popularity though not perhaps its hype.

                            Mary S
                          • Margaret Dean
                            ... I asked about this on another list some time ago (one with U.K. members); they said it s something like an ice-cream sundae with fruit added. Not =quite=
                            Message 13 of 22 , Sep 16, 2000
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                              Stolzi@... wrote:

                              > And the American "translator" has still not given us any line on what a
                              > "knickerbocker glory" is (eaten by Dudley and Harry at the Zoo in Chapter
                              > Two).

                              I asked about this on another list some time ago (one with U.K.
                              members); they said it's something like an ice-cream sundae with
                              fruit added. Not =quite= like a parfait but similar.


                              --Margaret Dean
                              <margdean@...>
                            • WendellWag@aol.com
                              In a message dated 9/16/00 12:23:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Stolzi@aol.com writes:
                              Message 14 of 22 , Sep 16, 2000
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                                In a message dated 9/16/00 12:23:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Stolzi@...
                                writes:

                                << I will mention however that when Harry has a discarded sweater ("jumper")
                                of
                                Dudley's forced upon him, it is one which has "bobbles." In the American
                                edition these become "puff balls."

                                The funny thing about this is that any American knitter worth her salt knows
                                about bobbles and how to make them. A "puff ball" sounds more like a
                                mushroom. >>

                                I'm trying to remember what the proper American name for those things are.
                                "Lint balls", perhaps?

                                Wendell Wagner
                              • alexeik@aol.com
                                In a message dated 9/16/0 4:23:50 PM, Mary wrote:
                                Message 15 of 22 , Sep 16, 2000
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                                  In a message dated 9/16/0 4:23:50 PM, Mary wrote:

                                  <<There are
                                  none in the curious speech of Hagrid. Does any UK native here recognize it
                                  as a particular dialect?>>

                                  I'm not a UK native, but he sounds to me like someone from Aberdeen.
                                  Alexei
                                • alexeik@aol.com
                                  In a message dated 9/16/0 4:23:50 PM, Mary wrote:
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Sep 16, 2000
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                                    In a message dated 9/16/0 4:23:50 PM, Mary wrote:

                                    <<In my re-read I once again became convinced that this is a dandy work of
                                    children's fantasy which deserves its popularity though not perhaps its hype.
                                    >>

                                    I've just read the first two volumes (I picked up the British editions in
                                    Montreal two weeks ago), and that's exactly my opinion.
                                    Alexei
                                  • Stolzi@aol.com
                                    Thanks, Margaret, for the handle on knickerbocker glory. Wendell, an old sweater (especially made w/ synthetic yarn) might indeed have bunches of fuzz on it,
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Sep 16, 2000
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                                      Thanks, Margaret, for the handle on "knickerbocker glory."

                                      Wendell, an old sweater (especially made w/ synthetic yarn) might indeed have
                                      bunches of fuzz on it, but those wouldn't be called "puff balls." Usually
                                      it's called "pills" or "pilling."

                                      Taking it in connection with the "bobble hats," I believe that Rowling is
                                      referring to little round balls deliberately made by the craftsperson by
                                      looping yarn. These are called "pom-poms" in the US, typically, when the
                                      yarn is clipped at the ends. When it's all looped, not clipped, a little
                                      round button shape, as you may see on some Irish or "Aran" sweaters, that's a
                                      "popcorn stitch" or a "bobble." And it would look darned silly on a boy's
                                      sweater, which (plus the color, "brown with orange puffballs") is Harry's
                                      objection, I take it.

                                      Boy, what vital subjects we do discuss on this List! :)

                                      Mary S
                                    • Sophie Masson
                                      Just a thought, but the equinox is like those other inbetween times like midsummer and midwinter which is proper to fairy-type or otherwordly folk..also,
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Sep 16, 2000
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                                        Just a thought, but the equinox is like those other 'inbetween' times like
                                        midsummer and midwinter which is proper to fairy-type or otherwordly
                                        folk..also, autumn has a flavour of a dying breed..the end of a
                                        time..whatever..
                                        Sophie
                                        Author site:
                                        http://members.xoom.com/sophiecastel/default.htm

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Trudy Shaw <tgshaw@...>
                                        To: mythsoc@egroups.com <mythsoc@egroups.com>
                                        Date: Saturday, 16 September 2000 23:41
                                        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Harry Potter, Variorum


                                        >
                                        >
                                        >> Scholastic should have just put a glossary in the back of the U.S.
                                        >edition.
                                        >> Easier for them, and non-destructive to the text.
                                        >>
                                        >> Wayne Hammond
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >-- and the kids might actually learn something about language!
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                                        >
                                      • alexeik@aol.com
                                        In a message dated 9/17/0 12:17:12 AM, Mary wrote:
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Sep 18, 2000
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                                          In a message dated 9/17/0 12:17:12 AM, Mary wrote:

                                          <<When it's all looped, not clipped, a little
                                          round button shape, as you may see on some Irish or "Aran" sweaters, that's a
                                          "popcorn stitch" or a "bobble." >>

                                          And in the Aran Islands a knit hat with a pom-pom on top is called (in Irish)
                                          a _bobailĂ­n_.
                                          Alexei
                                        • Paul F. Labaki
                                          In my neighborhood we called them dingle balls. Peace, Paul Labaki (late as always)
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Sep 19, 2000
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                                            In my neighborhood we called them "dingle balls."

                                            Peace,
                                            Paul Labaki
                                            (late as always)
                                            >
                                            > I'm trying to remember what the proper American name for those things are.
                                            > "Lint balls", perhaps?
                                            >
                                            > Wendell Wagner
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • ERATRIANO@aol.com
                                            In a message dated 09/20/2000 12:55:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sheik@buffnet.net writes: ROFL please
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Sep 20, 2000
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                                              In a message dated 09/20/2000 12:55:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                              sheik@... writes:

                                              << In my neighborhood we called them "dingle balls." >>

                                              ROFL please stop before I have to add my two cents....

                                              Lizzie the Flirt
                                            • WendellWag@aol.com
                                              I just asked a British friend, and he said that his understanding of the term bobble hat was indeed that it meant a wool hat (ski hat, ski cap, toque,
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Sep 30, 2000
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                                                I just asked a British friend, and he said that his understanding of the term
                                                "bobble hat" was indeed that it meant a wool hat (ski hat, ski cap, toque,
                                                whatever). He says that he's heard the term "bobble" meaning a wool ball.
                                                He's also heard the term "bobbling" to mean the gradual accumulation of
                                                little wool balls (pills, or whatever you call them) on sweaters. The term
                                                "bobbling" may have been popularized by its use in a commercial. He says
                                                that he's never seen any of these terms in print.

                                                Wendell Wagner
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