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Re: Edouard Kloczko, the linguistic specialist of the Mythsoc !

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  • drussy
    Hello David, Damien and me are mainly known as one of the administrators of the French Tolkien Society : Tolkiendil. I am editor of the essays section, and
    Message 1 of 31 , Sep 11, 2012
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      Hello David,

      Damien and me are mainly known as one of the administrators of the French Tolkien Society : Tolkiendil. I am editor of the essays section, and Damien of the linguistic section, and we are respectively the editors of the two last issues of the Tolkiendil magazine, l'Arc et le Heaume.

      You say, you haven't heard of this. It is the main reason why we have take the decision to post our message. It is the first time, he presents himself as the main international specialist of the Tolkien languages of the Mythsoc or as responsible of the linguistic column of Mythprint, but not the first time as a scholar, who he is not. But this is mainly known in the French circle, unfortunately.

      Sorry if I'm not clear, I'm not fluent in English unlike my friends Damien and Vincent.

      Vivien


      --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "David Bratman" <dbratman@...> wrote:
      >
      > Who are Vivien Stocker and Damien Bador? (I know that I could look them up,
      > but I want somebody with evaluative capacity to tell me.) I've never heard
      > of them. I _have_ heard of Edward Kloczko, but I had not previously heard
      > that he was passing himself off as something he was not.
      >
      > Vincent says that "it is pure fantasy" when Kloczko says he gives "lectures
      > to students" and that he has "presented my research in seminars." Huh?
      > Lots of Tolkien scholars, including me, have given lectures to students and
      > presented our research in seminars. These are perfectly ordinary
      > activities.
      >
      > The introduction to the interview says that Kloczsko "is one of the very few
      > linguists with a deep interest in the Constructed Tongues of J.R.R Tolkien."
      > Well, that's true too. There aren't a tremendous number of Tolkien
      > linguists out there, not compared to the number of linguists in the world.
      >
      > I can't speak to whether he's a professor or what he says in his book, but
      > I'm puzzled by the objections that I can easily check on.
      >
      > David Bratman
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Ferre" <ferretolk@...>
      > To: <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 8:21 AM
      > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Edouard Kloczko, the linguistic specialist of the
      > Mythsoc !
      >
      >
      > I’m sorry, but it is quite serious: Kloczko also pretends to be a “Professor
      > of Comparative Literature (Paris) and Linguistics (Aix-en-Provence)”, which
      > is a lie. Forging academic titles... and deceiving readers of this
      > interview, for instance:
      > ttp://www.festivalintheshire.com/journal6pgw/6inteklotcko.html
      > “.. lectures to students. I have presented my research in seminars..” : it
      > is pure fantasy, so to speak.
      > I do understand Vivien Stocker and Damien Bador’s concerns.
      >
      > best wishes
      > vincent
      >
      > Vincent Ferré
      > Professeur, Littérature générale et comparée
      > (sic!)
      > Université Paris Est (Créteil), Centre “Lettres, Idées, Savoirs” (LIS)
      > Directeur du Master recherche Lettres (M1 "Lettres", M2 "Littératures,
      > Discours, Francophonies")
      > ferre@...
      > http://univ-paris13.academia.edu/VincentFERRE
      >
      > From: WendellWag@...
      > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 5:12 PM
      > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Edouard Kloczko, the linguistic specialist of the
      > Mythsoc !
      >
      >
      >
      > I know that we ought to feel angry about this, but in a way we should also
      > feel honored. When a con man decides to pretend to be you or to be a
      > significant member of your organization, that's actually a kind of
      > back-handed tribute to how important you or your organization are. I await
      > the next E-mail I get which, instead of saying, "I am a Nigerian prince. I
      > have $25,000,000 in a bank account that I need your assistance in moving to
      > another country. I will give you 20% of this if you help me," instead says,
      > "I am a member of the Council of Stewards of the Mythopoeic Society. I have
      > $25,000,000 in a bank account that I need your assistance in moving to
      > another country. I will give you 20% of this if you help me."
      >
      > Wendell Wagner
      >
      > In a message dated 9/11/2012 5:05:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
      > drussy@... writes:
      >
      > Hi all !
      >
      > Edouard Kloczko, who's been active regarding Tolkien's invented languages
      > for quite a long time, has just published a new book. We have just skimmed
      > through _Le Haut-Elfique pour les débutants_ (The High Elvish for
      > beginners), and cannot comment on the theories therein - except that he's
      > still clinging to the idea that the Qenya from the Lost Tales period
      > corresponds to a hypothetical "Fourth-Age Late Quenya", and presenting this
      > theory as Tolkien's own, from what we have seen (see message #1089 of David
      > Giraudeau on lambengolmor about this global theory).
      >
      > What really irritates us is the man oversized ego. (We can't find a
      > superlative strong enough, as a matter of fact.) Not content to present
      > himself as "the only linguist studying the constructed languages of J.R.R.
      > Tolkien at the university of Aix-en-Provence" (the original sentence that
      > can also mean that he is the only
      > linguist studying Tolkien's languages...), he's not above deceiving his
      > readers. Thanks to the fact that he has published a couple linguistic notes
      > in Mythprint (and presenting himself as the responsible of the linguistic
      > column), he indeed claims to be "the official specialist of Elvish Languages
      > of the largest American society of Tolkien's fans, the Mythopoeic Society."
      >
      > We would find that laughable if it wasn't somewhat outrageous. Due to his
      > continuous self-promotion, Kloczko is still considered a "specialist" of
      > Elvish languages by the French mass media, despite having published almost
      > no academic research in this field. His deceptive claims can only strengthen
      > his position, unless they are
      > refuted.
      >
      > Vivien Stocker and Damien Bador
      >
    • Patrick Wynne
      Good lord — Edouard has really gone off the rails. How sad, both for him personally, and for the unsuspecting reader who might not realize what hogwash
      Message 31 of 31 , May 25, 2013
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        Good lord — Edouard has really gone off the rails. How sad, both for him personally, and for the unsuspecting reader who might not realize what hogwash Kloczko's book contains. Thank you for the excellent commentary.

        On May 25, 2013, at 8:01 AM, "David Giraudeau" <davidkiks@...> wrote:

         

        Hi all,

        in order to clarify our comments (mine, but also those of Vincent Ferré or Vivien Stocker) on Edouard Kloczko's statements, behaviour and last book (Fr. "Le haut elfique pour les débutants", Eng. "High Elvish for Beginners"), I made a quick English translation of my study of this book.

        It is available here:

        http://lambenore.free.fr/downloads/HED_eng.pdf

        Cordially,

        David


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