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Re: [mythsoc] Edouard Kloczko, the linguistic specialist of the Mythsoc !

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  • David Bratman
    Who are Vivien Stocker and Damien Bador? (I know that I could look them up, but I want somebody with evaluative capacity to tell me.) I ve never heard of
    Message 1 of 31 , Sep 11, 2012
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      Who are Vivien Stocker and Damien Bador? (I know that I could look them up,
      but I want somebody with evaluative capacity to tell me.) I've never heard
      of them. I _have_ heard of Edward Kloczko, but I had not previously heard
      that he was passing himself off as something he was not.

      Vincent says that "it is pure fantasy" when Kloczko says he gives "lectures
      to students" and that he has "presented my research in seminars." Huh?
      Lots of Tolkien scholars, including me, have given lectures to students and
      presented our research in seminars. These are perfectly ordinary
      activities.

      The introduction to the interview says that Kloczsko "is one of the very few
      linguists with a deep interest in the Constructed Tongues of J.R.R Tolkien."
      Well, that's true too. There aren't a tremendous number of Tolkien
      linguists out there, not compared to the number of linguists in the world.

      I can't speak to whether he's a professor or what he says in his book, but
      I'm puzzled by the objections that I can easily check on.

      David Bratman


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Ferre" <ferretolk@...>
      To: <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 8:21 AM
      Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Edouard Kloczko, the linguistic specialist of the
      Mythsoc !


      I’m sorry, but it is quite serious: Kloczko also pretends to be a “Professor
      of Comparative Literature (Paris) and Linguistics (Aix-en-Provence)”, which
      is a lie. Forging academic titles... and deceiving readers of this
      interview, for instance:
      ttp://www.festivalintheshire.com/journal6pgw/6inteklotcko.html
      “.. lectures to students. I have presented my research in seminars..” : it
      is pure fantasy, so to speak.
      I do understand Vivien Stocker and Damien Bador’s concerns.

      best wishes
      vincent

      Vincent Ferré
      Professeur, Littérature générale et comparée
      (sic!)
      Université Paris Est (Créteil), Centre “Lettres, Idées, Savoirs” (LIS)
      Directeur du Master recherche Lettres (M1 "Lettres", M2 "Littératures,
      Discours, Francophonies")
      ferre@...
      http://univ-paris13.academia.edu/VincentFERRE

      From: WendellWag@...
      Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 5:12 PM
      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Edouard Kloczko, the linguistic specialist of the
      Mythsoc !



      I know that we ought to feel angry about this, but in a way we should also
      feel honored. When a con man decides to pretend to be you or to be a
      significant member of your organization, that's actually a kind of
      back-handed tribute to how important you or your organization are. I await
      the next E-mail I get which, instead of saying, "I am a Nigerian prince. I
      have $25,000,000 in a bank account that I need your assistance in moving to
      another country. I will give you 20% of this if you help me," instead says,
      "I am a member of the Council of Stewards of the Mythopoeic Society. I have
      $25,000,000 in a bank account that I need your assistance in moving to
      another country. I will give you 20% of this if you help me."

      Wendell Wagner

      In a message dated 9/11/2012 5:05:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
      drussy@... writes:

      Hi all !

      Edouard Kloczko, who's been active regarding Tolkien's invented languages
      for quite a long time, has just published a new book. We have just skimmed
      through _Le Haut-Elfique pour les débutants_ (The High Elvish for
      beginners), and cannot comment on the theories therein - except that he's
      still clinging to the idea that the Qenya from the Lost Tales period
      corresponds to a hypothetical "Fourth-Age Late Quenya", and presenting this
      theory as Tolkien's own, from what we have seen (see message #1089 of David
      Giraudeau on lambengolmor about this global theory).

      What really irritates us is the man oversized ego. (We can't find a
      superlative strong enough, as a matter of fact.) Not content to present
      himself as "the only linguist studying the constructed languages of J.R.R.
      Tolkien at the university of Aix-en-Provence" (the original sentence that
      can also mean that he is the only
      linguist studying Tolkien's languages...), he's not above deceiving his
      readers. Thanks to the fact that he has published a couple linguistic notes
      in Mythprint (and presenting himself as the responsible of the linguistic
      column), he indeed claims to be "the official specialist of Elvish Languages
      of the largest American society of Tolkien's fans, the Mythopoeic Society."

      We would find that laughable if it wasn't somewhat outrageous. Due to his
      continuous self-promotion, Kloczko is still considered a "specialist" of
      Elvish languages by the French mass media, despite having published almost
      no academic research in this field. His deceptive claims can only strengthen
      his position, unless they are
      refuted.

      Vivien Stocker and Damien Bador
    • Patrick Wynne
      Good lord — Edouard has really gone off the rails. How sad, both for him personally, and for the unsuspecting reader who might not realize what hogwash
      Message 31 of 31 , May 25, 2013
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        Good lord — Edouard has really gone off the rails. How sad, both for him personally, and for the unsuspecting reader who might not realize what hogwash Kloczko's book contains. Thank you for the excellent commentary.

        On May 25, 2013, at 8:01 AM, "David Giraudeau" <davidkiks@...> wrote:

         

        Hi all,

        in order to clarify our comments (mine, but also those of Vincent Ferré or Vivien Stocker) on Edouard Kloczko's statements, behaviour and last book (Fr. "Le haut elfique pour les débutants", Eng. "High Elvish for Beginners"), I made a quick English translation of my study of this book.

        It is available here:

        http://lambenore.free.fr/downloads/HED_eng.pdf

        Cordially,

        David


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