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Re: [mythsoc] [Fwd: Byzantine historical fiction]

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  • ERATRIANO@aol.com
    In a message dated 09/07/2000 5:30:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Stolzi@aol.com writes:
    Message 1 of 17 , Sep 7, 2000
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      In a message dated 09/07/2000 5:30:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
      Stolzi@... writes:

      << OH! And Judith Tarr! The HOUND AND THE FALCON series is partly set in
      Crusades-era Palestine, but that verges on Byzantium.
      >>
      Mm, I think there's not as much Byzantium in there as one might like, but OH
      that was a wonderful trilogy. What are the dates for the Byzantine Empire
      again?

      Lizzie
    • Randall Eicher
      Lizzie asked ... OH ... Empire ... The Byzantine Empire technically begins in 330 AD when the Emperor Constantine transferred the imperial capital to
      Message 2 of 17 , Sep 7, 2000
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        Lizzie asked >>
        > Mm, I think there's not as much Byzantium in there as one might like, but
        OH
        > that was a wonderful trilogy. What are the dates for the Byzantine
        Empire
        > again?
        >

        The Byzantine Empire technically begins in 330 AD when the Emperor
        Constantine transferred the imperial capital to Constantinople. It ended in
        1453 with the fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Empire.

        Randall
      • Sophie Masson
        Whatabout Guy Gavriel Kay s The Sarantine Mosaic? That is certainly based on Byzantium.. Sophie Author site: http://members.xoom.com/sophiecastel/default.htm
        Message 3 of 17 , Sep 7, 2000
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          Whatabout Guy Gavriel Kay's The Sarantine Mosaic? That is certainly based on
          Byzantium..
          Sophie
          Author site:
          http://members.xoom.com/sophiecastel/default.htm

          -----Original Message-----
          From: ERATRIANO@... <ERATRIANO@...>
          To: mythsoc@egroups.com <mythsoc@egroups.com>
          Date: Friday, 8 September 2000 8:37
          Subject: Re: [mythsoc] [Fwd: Byzantine historical fiction]


          >
          >In a message dated 09/07/2000 5:30:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
          >Stolzi@... writes:
          >
          ><< OH! And Judith Tarr! The HOUND AND THE FALCON series is partly set in
          > Crusades-era Palestine, but that verges on Byzantium.
          > >>
          >Mm, I think there's not as much Byzantium in there as one might like, but
          OH
          >that was a wonderful trilogy. What are the dates for the Byzantine Empire
          >again?
          >
          >Lizzie
          >
          >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
          >
        • James P. Robinson III
          Well, they considered themselves the Eastern Roman Empire until 756 A.D., and then just the Roman Empire. Byzantine is a modern term As the clock struck 07:46
          Message 4 of 17 , Sep 8, 2000
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            Well, they considered themselves the Eastern Roman Empire until 756 A.D.,
            and then just the Roman Empire. Byzantine is a modern term

            As the clock struck 07:46 PM 9/7/2000 -0500, Randall Eicher took pen in
            hand and wrote:
            >
            >Lizzie asked >>
            > > Mm, I think there's not as much Byzantium in there as one might like, but
            >OH
            > > that was a wonderful trilogy. What are the dates for the Byzantine
            >Empire
            > > again?
            > >
            >
            >The Byzantine Empire technically begins in 330 AD when the Emperor
            >Constantine transferred the imperial capital to Constantinople. It ended in
            >1453 with the fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Empire.
            >
            >Randall
            >
            >
            >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org

            --
            =================================================
            James P. Robinson III jprobins@...

            All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
            author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with
            an attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
            given in writing.
            =================================================
          • LSolarion@aol.com
            In a message dated 09/07/2000 9:24:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ecrowe@email.sjsu.edu writes:
            Message 5 of 17 , Sep 9, 2000
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              In a message dated 09/07/2000 9:24:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
              ecrowe@... writes:

              << I'm looking for historical fiction or fantasy set in the Byzantine era >>

              There's a new series by Guy Gavriel Kay, a favorite of mine, set in a sort of
              parallel Byzantium called Sarantium. Two volumes are out so far: Sailing to
              Sarantium and Lord of Emperors.
            • James P. Robinson III
              Was made up by Charlemagne and not recognized as such by the Byzantines. As the clock struck 04:41 PM 9/10/2000 -0400, ERATRIANO@aol.com took pen in ... --
              Message 6 of 17 , Sep 10, 2000
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                Was made up by Charlemagne and not recognized as such by the Byzantines.

                As the clock struck 04:41 PM 9/10/2000 -0400, ERATRIANO@... took pen in
                hand and wrote:

                >In a message dated 09/08/2000 8:10:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                >jprobins@... writes:
                >
                ><< Well, they considered themselves the Eastern Roman Empire until 756 A.D.,
                > and then just the Roman Empire. Byzantine is a modern term >>
                >
                >And then the Holy Roman Empire was what?
                >
                >Lizzie the ever forgetful

                --
                =================================================
                James P. Robinson III jprobins@...

                All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
                author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with
                an attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
                given in writing.
                =================================================
              • ERATRIANO@aol.com
                In a message dated 09/08/2000 8:10:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jprobins@ix.netcom.com writes:
                Message 7 of 17 , Sep 10, 2000
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                  In a message dated 09/08/2000 8:10:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                  jprobins@... writes:

                  << Well, they considered themselves the Eastern Roman Empire until 756 A.D.,
                  and then just the Roman Empire. Byzantine is a modern term >>

                  And then the Holy Roman Empire was what?

                  Lizzie the ever forgetful
                • James P. Robinson III
                  Well, not really French (probably more Austrians and Germans held the title than Frenchmen). Let s call it a later, Western European, elective office with
                  Message 8 of 17 , Sep 10, 2000
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                    Well, not really French (probably more Austrians and Germans held the title
                    than Frenchmen). Let's call it a later, Western European, elective office
                    with little inherent power. They did consider themselves the heirs of
                    Rome, and the title was blessed by the pope, but the Byzantines always
                    considered themselves the REAL Roman Empire and the HRE just a presumptuous
                    upstart..

                    As the clock struck 08:04 PM 9/10/2000 -0400, ERATRIANO@... took pen in
                    hand and wrote:
                    >In a message dated 09/10/2000 7:14:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                    >jprobins@... writes:
                    >
                    ><< Was made up by Charlemagne and not recognized as such by the Byzantines. >>
                    >So it was a later, French thing? Gosh, I've forgotten Everything!
                    >
                    >Lizzie

                    --
                    =================================================
                    James P. Robinson III jprobins@...

                    All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
                    author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with
                    an attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
                    given in writing.
                    =================================================
                  • ERATRIANO@aol.com
                    In a message dated 09/10/2000 7:14:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jprobins@ix.netcom.com writes:
                    Message 9 of 17 , Sep 10, 2000
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                      In a message dated 09/10/2000 7:14:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                      jprobins@... writes:

                      << Was made up by Charlemagne and not recognized as such by the Byzantines. >>
                      So it was a later, French thing? Gosh, I've forgotten Everything!

                      Lizzie
                    • David S. Bratman
                      - we now return you to our regular programming - Where the Byzantine Empire was the continuing successor of the Eastern Roman Empire, the Holy Roman Empire may
                      Message 10 of 17 , Sep 10, 2000
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                        - we now return you to our regular programming -

                        Where the Byzantine Empire was the continuing successor of the Eastern
                        Roman Empire, the Holy Roman Empire may be seen as a latter-day attempt to
                        revive the Western Roman Empire, instituted by Charlemagne and Pope Leo in
                        800 A.D.

                        Where the Byzantine Empire quickly became ethnically Greek, the HRE, once
                        its boundaries settled down, became functionally what we would now call
                        Germany.

                        Where the Byzantine Empire lost power by shrinking in size and was wiped
                        out by the Turks in 1453, the HRE lost power by the emperor becoming a
                        figurehead (various other countries were sloughed off by gradually gaining
                        independence, among them Switzerland, the Netherlands, Austria, and the
                        various German states that reunited in 1871; not counting France, which
                        had become a separate country when Charlemagne's sons divided his lands),
                        and was wiped out by Napoleon in 1806.

                        Where the successor to the Byzantine Empire was the Russian Empire, whose
                        rulers first took the title "emperor" (tsar or czar) in a deliberate
                        attempt to take up the banner that fell in 1453, the successor to the HRE
                        was the Austrian Empire, the first (and self-appointed) Austrian Emperor
                        being literally the same person as the last Holy Roman Emperor. The
                        Russians, like the Byzantines, were Eastern Orthodox; the Austrians, like
                        the HRE, were Catholic: the German Empire of 1871-1918, though its
                        territory was more congruous with the HRE's, was of Protestant rule.

                        David Bratman
                      • Matthew Winslow
                        ... And that s all there s going to be. It s a duology, and quite a good one, too. -- Matthew Winslow mwinslow@firinn.org http://x-real.firinn.org/ Books are
                        Message 11 of 17 , Sep 11, 2000
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                          LSolarion@... [LSolarion@...] wrote:
                          > There's a new series by Guy Gavriel Kay, a favorite of mine, set in a sort of
                          > parallel Byzantium called Sarantium. Two volumes are out so far: Sailing to
                          > Sarantium and Lord of Emperors.

                          And that's all there's going to be. It's a duology, and quite a good one, too.

                          --
                          Matthew Winslow mwinslow@... http://x-real.firinn.org/
                          "Books are my passion, not only writing them and every once in a while even
                          reading them but just having them and moving them around and feeling the
                          comfort of their serene presence."
                          --Fred Buechner
                          Currently reading: Spindle's End by Robin McKinley
                        • alexeik@aol.com
                          In a message dated 9/11/0 12:05:21 AM, Lizzie wrote: ... So it was a later, French thing? Gosh, I ve forgotten Everything! ... Actually, more of a German
                          Message 12 of 17 , Sep 11, 2000
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                            In a message dated 9/11/0 12:05:21 AM, Lizzie wrote:

                            <<<< Was made up by Charlemagne and not recognized as such by the Byzantines.
                            >>
                            So it was a later, French thing? Gosh, I've forgotten Everything!
                            >>

                            Actually, more of a German thing. And the Roman Church was one of the most
                            instrumental factors in getting it started.
                            Alexei
                          • Stolzi@aol.com
                            ... Meaning Caesar, of course. You can still find Greeks who refer to themselves and their Orthodox civilization as Roman. And the Greek minority was
                            Message 13 of 17 , Sep 11, 2000
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                              >tsar or czar

                              Meaning "Caesar," of course.

                              You can still find Greeks who refer to themselves and their Orthodox
                              civilization as "Roman." And the Greek minority was (still is, I suppose)
                              called "Roum" by the Turks who ruled them. Not "Hellas" or "Hellenes," terms
                              revived from antiquity after the modern recovery of Greek nationhood.

                              Mary S
                            • LSolarion@aol.com
                              In a message dated 09/10/2000 1:44:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ERATRIANO@aol.com writes:
                              Message 14 of 17 , Sep 14, 2000
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                                In a message dated 09/10/2000 1:44:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                                ERATRIANO@... writes:

                                << And then the Holy Roman Empire was what?
                                >>

                                A collection of tiny German principalities, city-states and daydreams.
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