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Re: [mythsoc] [Fwd: Byzantine historical fiction]

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  • Stolzi@aol.com
    There was Susan Shwartz SHARDS OF EMPIRE, but most of the people in Butterbur s Woodshed reading group did not like it, as you, Edith, will remember. And I
    Message 1 of 17 , Sep 7, 2000
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      There was Susan Shwartz' SHARDS OF EMPIRE, but most of the people in
      Butterbur's Woodshed reading group did not like it, as you, Edith, will
      remember.

      And I seem to remember a couple good titles from Cecelia Holland.

      OH! And Judith Tarr! The HOUND AND THE FALCON series is partly set in
      Crusades-era Palestine, but that verges on Byzantium.

      Mary S
    • ERATRIANO@aol.com
      In a message dated 09/07/2000 5:30:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Stolzi@aol.com writes:
      Message 2 of 17 , Sep 7, 2000
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        In a message dated 09/07/2000 5:30:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
        Stolzi@... writes:

        << OH! And Judith Tarr! The HOUND AND THE FALCON series is partly set in
        Crusades-era Palestine, but that verges on Byzantium.
        >>
        Mm, I think there's not as much Byzantium in there as one might like, but OH
        that was a wonderful trilogy. What are the dates for the Byzantine Empire
        again?

        Lizzie
      • Randall Eicher
        Lizzie asked ... OH ... Empire ... The Byzantine Empire technically begins in 330 AD when the Emperor Constantine transferred the imperial capital to
        Message 3 of 17 , Sep 7, 2000
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          Lizzie asked >>
          > Mm, I think there's not as much Byzantium in there as one might like, but
          OH
          > that was a wonderful trilogy. What are the dates for the Byzantine
          Empire
          > again?
          >

          The Byzantine Empire technically begins in 330 AD when the Emperor
          Constantine transferred the imperial capital to Constantinople. It ended in
          1453 with the fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Empire.

          Randall
        • Sophie Masson
          Whatabout Guy Gavriel Kay s The Sarantine Mosaic? That is certainly based on Byzantium.. Sophie Author site: http://members.xoom.com/sophiecastel/default.htm
          Message 4 of 17 , Sep 7, 2000
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            Whatabout Guy Gavriel Kay's The Sarantine Mosaic? That is certainly based on
            Byzantium..
            Sophie
            Author site:
            http://members.xoom.com/sophiecastel/default.htm

            -----Original Message-----
            From: ERATRIANO@... <ERATRIANO@...>
            To: mythsoc@egroups.com <mythsoc@egroups.com>
            Date: Friday, 8 September 2000 8:37
            Subject: Re: [mythsoc] [Fwd: Byzantine historical fiction]


            >
            >In a message dated 09/07/2000 5:30:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
            >Stolzi@... writes:
            >
            ><< OH! And Judith Tarr! The HOUND AND THE FALCON series is partly set in
            > Crusades-era Palestine, but that verges on Byzantium.
            > >>
            >Mm, I think there's not as much Byzantium in there as one might like, but
            OH
            >that was a wonderful trilogy. What are the dates for the Byzantine Empire
            >again?
            >
            >Lizzie
            >
            >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
            >
          • James P. Robinson III
            Well, they considered themselves the Eastern Roman Empire until 756 A.D., and then just the Roman Empire. Byzantine is a modern term As the clock struck 07:46
            Message 5 of 17 , Sep 8, 2000
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              Well, they considered themselves the Eastern Roman Empire until 756 A.D.,
              and then just the Roman Empire. Byzantine is a modern term

              As the clock struck 07:46 PM 9/7/2000 -0500, Randall Eicher took pen in
              hand and wrote:
              >
              >Lizzie asked >>
              > > Mm, I think there's not as much Byzantium in there as one might like, but
              >OH
              > > that was a wonderful trilogy. What are the dates for the Byzantine
              >Empire
              > > again?
              > >
              >
              >The Byzantine Empire technically begins in 330 AD when the Emperor
              >Constantine transferred the imperial capital to Constantinople. It ended in
              >1453 with the fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Empire.
              >
              >Randall
              >
              >
              >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org

              --
              =================================================
              James P. Robinson III jprobins@...

              All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
              author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with
              an attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
              given in writing.
              =================================================
            • LSolarion@aol.com
              In a message dated 09/07/2000 9:24:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ecrowe@email.sjsu.edu writes:
              Message 6 of 17 , Sep 9, 2000
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                In a message dated 09/07/2000 9:24:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
                ecrowe@... writes:

                << I'm looking for historical fiction or fantasy set in the Byzantine era >>

                There's a new series by Guy Gavriel Kay, a favorite of mine, set in a sort of
                parallel Byzantium called Sarantium. Two volumes are out so far: Sailing to
                Sarantium and Lord of Emperors.
              • James P. Robinson III
                Was made up by Charlemagne and not recognized as such by the Byzantines. As the clock struck 04:41 PM 9/10/2000 -0400, ERATRIANO@aol.com took pen in ... --
                Message 7 of 17 , Sep 10, 2000
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                  Was made up by Charlemagne and not recognized as such by the Byzantines.

                  As the clock struck 04:41 PM 9/10/2000 -0400, ERATRIANO@... took pen in
                  hand and wrote:

                  >In a message dated 09/08/2000 8:10:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                  >jprobins@... writes:
                  >
                  ><< Well, they considered themselves the Eastern Roman Empire until 756 A.D.,
                  > and then just the Roman Empire. Byzantine is a modern term >>
                  >
                  >And then the Holy Roman Empire was what?
                  >
                  >Lizzie the ever forgetful

                  --
                  =================================================
                  James P. Robinson III jprobins@...

                  All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
                  author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with
                  an attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
                  given in writing.
                  =================================================
                • ERATRIANO@aol.com
                  In a message dated 09/08/2000 8:10:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jprobins@ix.netcom.com writes:
                  Message 8 of 17 , Sep 10, 2000
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                    In a message dated 09/08/2000 8:10:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                    jprobins@... writes:

                    << Well, they considered themselves the Eastern Roman Empire until 756 A.D.,
                    and then just the Roman Empire. Byzantine is a modern term >>

                    And then the Holy Roman Empire was what?

                    Lizzie the ever forgetful
                  • James P. Robinson III
                    Well, not really French (probably more Austrians and Germans held the title than Frenchmen). Let s call it a later, Western European, elective office with
                    Message 9 of 17 , Sep 10, 2000
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                      Well, not really French (probably more Austrians and Germans held the title
                      than Frenchmen). Let's call it a later, Western European, elective office
                      with little inherent power. They did consider themselves the heirs of
                      Rome, and the title was blessed by the pope, but the Byzantines always
                      considered themselves the REAL Roman Empire and the HRE just a presumptuous
                      upstart..

                      As the clock struck 08:04 PM 9/10/2000 -0400, ERATRIANO@... took pen in
                      hand and wrote:
                      >In a message dated 09/10/2000 7:14:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                      >jprobins@... writes:
                      >
                      ><< Was made up by Charlemagne and not recognized as such by the Byzantines. >>
                      >So it was a later, French thing? Gosh, I've forgotten Everything!
                      >
                      >Lizzie

                      --
                      =================================================
                      James P. Robinson III jprobins@...

                      All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
                      author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with
                      an attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
                      given in writing.
                      =================================================
                    • ERATRIANO@aol.com
                      In a message dated 09/10/2000 7:14:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jprobins@ix.netcom.com writes:
                      Message 10 of 17 , Sep 10, 2000
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                        In a message dated 09/10/2000 7:14:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                        jprobins@... writes:

                        << Was made up by Charlemagne and not recognized as such by the Byzantines. >>
                        So it was a later, French thing? Gosh, I've forgotten Everything!

                        Lizzie
                      • David S. Bratman
                        - we now return you to our regular programming - Where the Byzantine Empire was the continuing successor of the Eastern Roman Empire, the Holy Roman Empire may
                        Message 11 of 17 , Sep 10, 2000
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                          - we now return you to our regular programming -

                          Where the Byzantine Empire was the continuing successor of the Eastern
                          Roman Empire, the Holy Roman Empire may be seen as a latter-day attempt to
                          revive the Western Roman Empire, instituted by Charlemagne and Pope Leo in
                          800 A.D.

                          Where the Byzantine Empire quickly became ethnically Greek, the HRE, once
                          its boundaries settled down, became functionally what we would now call
                          Germany.

                          Where the Byzantine Empire lost power by shrinking in size and was wiped
                          out by the Turks in 1453, the HRE lost power by the emperor becoming a
                          figurehead (various other countries were sloughed off by gradually gaining
                          independence, among them Switzerland, the Netherlands, Austria, and the
                          various German states that reunited in 1871; not counting France, which
                          had become a separate country when Charlemagne's sons divided his lands),
                          and was wiped out by Napoleon in 1806.

                          Where the successor to the Byzantine Empire was the Russian Empire, whose
                          rulers first took the title "emperor" (tsar or czar) in a deliberate
                          attempt to take up the banner that fell in 1453, the successor to the HRE
                          was the Austrian Empire, the first (and self-appointed) Austrian Emperor
                          being literally the same person as the last Holy Roman Emperor. The
                          Russians, like the Byzantines, were Eastern Orthodox; the Austrians, like
                          the HRE, were Catholic: the German Empire of 1871-1918, though its
                          territory was more congruous with the HRE's, was of Protestant rule.

                          David Bratman
                        • Matthew Winslow
                          ... And that s all there s going to be. It s a duology, and quite a good one, too. -- Matthew Winslow mwinslow@firinn.org http://x-real.firinn.org/ Books are
                          Message 12 of 17 , Sep 11, 2000
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                            LSolarion@... [LSolarion@...] wrote:
                            > There's a new series by Guy Gavriel Kay, a favorite of mine, set in a sort of
                            > parallel Byzantium called Sarantium. Two volumes are out so far: Sailing to
                            > Sarantium and Lord of Emperors.

                            And that's all there's going to be. It's a duology, and quite a good one, too.

                            --
                            Matthew Winslow mwinslow@... http://x-real.firinn.org/
                            "Books are my passion, not only writing them and every once in a while even
                            reading them but just having them and moving them around and feeling the
                            comfort of their serene presence."
                            --Fred Buechner
                            Currently reading: Spindle's End by Robin McKinley
                          • alexeik@aol.com
                            In a message dated 9/11/0 12:05:21 AM, Lizzie wrote: ... So it was a later, French thing? Gosh, I ve forgotten Everything! ... Actually, more of a German
                            Message 13 of 17 , Sep 11, 2000
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                              In a message dated 9/11/0 12:05:21 AM, Lizzie wrote:

                              <<<< Was made up by Charlemagne and not recognized as such by the Byzantines.
                              >>
                              So it was a later, French thing? Gosh, I've forgotten Everything!
                              >>

                              Actually, more of a German thing. And the Roman Church was one of the most
                              instrumental factors in getting it started.
                              Alexei
                            • Stolzi@aol.com
                              ... Meaning Caesar, of course. You can still find Greeks who refer to themselves and their Orthodox civilization as Roman. And the Greek minority was
                              Message 14 of 17 , Sep 11, 2000
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                                >tsar or czar

                                Meaning "Caesar," of course.

                                You can still find Greeks who refer to themselves and their Orthodox
                                civilization as "Roman." And the Greek minority was (still is, I suppose)
                                called "Roum" by the Turks who ruled them. Not "Hellas" or "Hellenes," terms
                                revived from antiquity after the modern recovery of Greek nationhood.

                                Mary S
                              • LSolarion@aol.com
                                In a message dated 09/10/2000 1:44:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ERATRIANO@aol.com writes:
                                Message 15 of 17 , Sep 14, 2000
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                                  In a message dated 09/10/2000 1:44:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                                  ERATRIANO@... writes:

                                  << And then the Holy Roman Empire was what?
                                  >>

                                  A collection of tiny German principalities, city-states and daydreams.
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