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Re: [mythsoc] A book on how Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Rings

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  • Larry Swain
    So you did. And I suggested the Chronology. Feel free to disagree. You are aware of course that it s a 2-volume work and suggesting one volume isn t the
    Message 1 of 16 , May 6, 2012
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      So you did.  And I suggested the Chronology.  Feel free to disagree.  You are aware of course that it's a 2-volume work and suggesting one volume isn't the same as the other.
      --
      Larry Swain
       
       
      On Sat, May 5, 2012, at 07:30 PM, Doug Kane wrote:
       

       

      Pssst, Larry, I already suggested the LotR section of the Reader's Guide portion of the Companion and Guide.
       
      Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 7:25 PM
      Subject: Re: [mythsoc] A book on how Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Rings
       
       

       

      How about Wayne and Christina's Companion and Guide?  While not specifically on Tolkien's writing style or history of creation of LoTR, the Chronology in my view gives one all that needs be known.
       
      Larry Swain
       
       
      On Sat, May 5, 2012, at 07:10 PM, John Rateliff wrote:
       

       

      On May 5, 2012, at 6:20 PM, WendellWag@... wrote:
      . . .  I could, of course, simply tell him to read the entire twelve-volumes of The History of Middle-earth, but he'd just be annoyed by that.  Is there a single book that gives the history of how Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Rings?  I'm not sure to what extent this could be separated from the history of how he wrote The Silmarillion and The Hobbit.  
      I don't know of any one book that does this. 
         If there is one,  I look forward to finding out about it.
             If there isn't, perhaps somebody shd write one.
       
      --JDR (who can point you towards that sort of thing re. THE HOBBIT but not LotR).

       

       
       
      -- 
      http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail...
      

       

       

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    • Doug Kane
      Ah, I missed your reference to the Chronology. My apologies. From: Larry Swain Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 10:12 AM To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:
      Message 2 of 16 , May 6, 2012
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        Ah, I missed your reference to the Chronology.  My apologies. 
        Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 10:12 AM
        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] A book on how Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Rings

         

        So you did.  And I suggested the Chronology.  Feel free to disagree.  You are aware of course that it's a 2-volume work and suggesting one volume isn't the same as the other.
        --
        Larry Swain
         
         
        On Sat, May 5, 2012, at 07:30 PM, Doug Kane wrote:
         

         

        Pssst, Larry, I already suggested the LotR section of the Reader's Guide portion of the Companion and Guide.
         
        Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 7:25 PM
        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] A book on how Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Rings
         
         

         

        How about Wayne and Christina's Companion and Guide?  While not specifically on Tolkien's writing style or history of creation of LoTR, the Chronology in my view gives one all that needs be known.
         
        Larry Swain
         
         
        On Sat, May 5, 2012, at 07:10 PM, John Rateliff wrote:
         

         

        On May 5, 2012, at 6:20 PM, WendellWag@... wrote:
        . . .  I could, of course, simply tell him to read the entire twelve-volumes of The History of Middle-earth, but he'd just be annoyed by that.  Is there a single book that gives the history of how Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Rings?  I'm not sure to what extent this could be separated from the history of how he wrote The Silmarillion and The Hobbit.  
        I don't know of any one book that does this. 
           If there is one,  I look forward to finding out about it.
               If there isn't, perhaps somebody shd write one.
         
        --JDR (who can point you towards that sort of thing re. THE HOBBIT but not LotR).

         

         
        -- 
        http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail...
        

         

         

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        -- 
        http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail...
        

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      • Morgan Thomsen
        Sounds like an interesting exchange! Where can it be found? (I tried to find a reference, without any success.) Thanks, Morgan
        Message 3 of 16 , May 6, 2012
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          Sounds like an interesting exchange! Where can it be found? (I tried to find a reference, without any success.)

          Thanks,

          Morgan

          On May 6, 2012 04:14 "John Rateliff" <sacnoth@...> wrote:


          Anyone else here remember the amusing little exchange between JRRT and
          Ch. Moorman? Moorman had a theory that Malory never had the chance to
          revise his work and asked Tolkien if the same was true of him, only to
          be told otherwise in no uncertain terms.

          --JDR


        • Larry Swain
          No problem. BTW, I was just at the board again, and the OP in the thread claims that any author who stops the flow of the plot in order to engage in
          Message 4 of 16 , May 6, 2012
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            No problem.  BTW, I was just at the board again, and the OP in the thread claims that any author who stops the flow of the plot in order to engage in exposition has failed as an author.  I find that comment very very telling.
             
            Now that I think about it, could someone who hasn't really used The Companion and Guide, and who hasn't read much if any other Tolkien scholarship, use either volume independently with any degree of success?  I'm beginning to think we need to make a quick reading list for the OP. 
            --
            Larry Swain
             
             
            On Sun, May 6, 2012, at 10:36 AM, Doug Kane wrote:
             

             

            Ah, I missed your reference to the Chronology.  My apologies. 
            Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 10:12 AM
            Subject: Re: [mythsoc] A book on how Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Rings
             
             

             

            So you did.  And I suggested the Chronology.  Feel free to disagree.  You are aware of course that it's a 2-volume work and suggesting one volume isn't the same as the other.
            --
            Larry Swain
             
             
            On Sat, May 5, 2012, at 07:30 PM, Doug Kane wrote:
             

             

            Pssst, Larry, I already suggested the LotR section of the Reader's Guide portion of the Companion and Guide.
             
            Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 7:25 PM
            Subject: Re: [mythsoc] A book on how Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Rings
             
             

             

            How about Wayne and Christina's Companion and Guide?  While not specifically on Tolkien's writing style or history of creation of LoTR, the Chronology in my view gives one all that needs be known.
             
            Larry Swain
             
             
            On Sat, May 5, 2012, at 07:10 PM, John Rateliff wrote:
             

             

            On May 5, 2012, at 6:20 PM, WendellWag@... wrote:
            . . .  I could, of course, simply tell him to read the entire twelve-volumes of The History of Middle-earth, but he'd just be annoyed by that.  Is there a single book that gives the history of how Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Rings?  I'm not sure to what extent this could be separated from the history of how he wrote The Silmarillion and The Hobbit.  
            I don't know of any one book that does this. 
               If there is one,  I look forward to finding out about it.
                   If there isn't, perhaps somebody shd write one.
             
            --JDR (who can point you towards that sort of thing re. THE HOBBIT but not LotR).

             

             
             
            -- 
            http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail...
            

             

             

            No virus found in this message.
            Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2425/4980 - Release Date: 05/05/12

             

             
             
            -- 
            http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail...
            

             

             

            No virus found in this message.
            Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2425/4981 - Release Date: 05/06/12

             

             
            -- 
            http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be
            
          • Cristina
            Some of the letters do give snippets of insights on JRRT s writing process.
            Message 5 of 16 , May 7, 2012
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              Some of the letters do give snippets of insights on JRRT's writing process.

              --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Larry Swain <theswain@...> wrote:
              >
              > No problem. BTW, I was just at the board again, and the OP in
              > the thread claims that any author who stops the flow of the plot
              > in order to engage in exposition has failed as an author. I find
              > that comment very very telling.
              >
              > Now that I think about it, could someone who hasn't really used
              > The Companion and Guide, and who hasn't read much if any other
              > Tolkien scholarship, use either volume independently with any
              > degree of success? I'm beginning to think we need to make a
              > quick reading list for the OP.
              > --
              > Larry Swain
              > [1]theswain@...
              >
              >
              > On Sun, May 6, 2012, at 10:36 AM, Doug Kane wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > Ah, I missed your reference to the Chronology. My apologies.
              > From: [2]Larry Swain
              > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 10:12 AM
              > To: [3]mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] A book on how Tolkien wrote The Lord of
              > the Rings
              >
              >
              >
              > So you did. And I suggested the Chronology. Feel free to
              > disagree. You are aware of course that it's a 2-volume work and
              > suggesting one volume isn't the same as the other.
              > --
              > Larry Swain
              > [4]theswain@...
              >
              >
              > On Sat, May 5, 2012, at 07:30 PM, Doug Kane wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > Pssst, Larry, I already suggested the LotR section of the
              > Reader's Guide portion of the Companion and Guide.
              >
              > From: [5]Larry Swain
              > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 7:25 PM
              > To: [6]mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] A book on how Tolkien wrote The Lord of
              > the Rings
              >
              >
              >
              > How about Wayne and Christina's Companion and Guide? While not
              > specifically on Tolkien's writing style or history of creation of
              > LoTR, the Chronology in my view gives one all that needs be
              > known.
              >
              > Larry Swain
              > [7]theswain@...
              >
              >
              > On Sat, May 5, 2012, at 07:10 PM, John Rateliff wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > On May 5, 2012, at 6:20 PM, [8]WendellWag@... wrote:
              >
              > . . . I could, of course, simply tell him to read the entire
              > twelve-volumes of The History of Middle-earth, but he'd just be
              > annoyed by that. Is there a single book that gives the history
              > of how Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Rings? I'm not sure to what
              > extent this could be separated from the history of how he
              > wrote The Silmarillion and The Hobbit.
              >
              > I don't know of any one book that does this.
              > If there is one, I look forward to finding out about it.
              > If there isn't, perhaps somebody shd write one.
              >
              > --JDR (who can point you towards that sort of thing re. THE
              > HOBBIT but not LotR).
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail...
              >
              >
              >
              > No virus found in this message.
              > Checked by AVG - [9]www.avg.com
              > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2425/4980 - Release Date:
              > 05/05/12
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail...
              >
              >
              >
              > No virus found in this message.
              > Checked by AVG - [10]www.avg.com
              > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2425/4981 - Release Date:
              > 05/06/12
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > References
              >
              > 1. mailto:theswain@...
              > 2. mailto:theswain@...
              > 3. mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              > 4. mailto:theswain@...
              > 5. mailto:theswain@...
              > 6. mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              > 7. mailto:theswain@...
              > 8. mailto:WendellWag@...
              > 9. http://www.avg.com/
              > 10. http://www.avg.com/
              > 11. mailto:dougkane@...?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bmythsoc%5D%20A%20book%20on%20how%20Tolkien%20wrote%20The%20Lord%20of%20the%20Rings
              > 12. mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bmythsoc%5D%20A%20book%20on%20how%20Tolkien%20wrote%20The%20Lord%20of%20the%20Rings
              > 13. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mythsoc/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJva3U0cW00BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQ1NzM3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTAyMDIyNwRtc2dJZAMyMzA4MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzMzYzMjU4MDg-?act=reply&messageNum=23082
              > 14. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mythsoc/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJjdTI0YWlqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQ1NzM3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTAyMDIyNwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzMzYzMjU4MDg-
              > 15. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mythsoc/message/23071;_ylc=X3oDMTM0aWhxa20yBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQ1NzM3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTAyMDIyNwRtc2dJZAMyMzA4MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzMzYzMjU4MDgEdHBjSWQDMjMwNzE-
              > 16. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mythsoc;_ylc=X3oDMTJjcWV2NmEzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQ1NzM3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTAyMDIyNwRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzMzYzMjU4MDg-
              > 17. http://www.mythsoc.org/
              > 18. http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJicjllamxxBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzQ1NzM3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTAyMDIyNwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjMyNTgwOA--
              > 19. mailto:mythsoc-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change%20Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional
              > 20. mailto:mythsoc-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email%20Delivery:%20Digest
              > 21. mailto:mythsoc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe
              > 22. http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              > --
              > http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be
              >
            • WendellWag@aol.com
              Thanks to everyone who replied to my question about how to explain to someone with a theory of how Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Rings by pointing them to the
              Message 6 of 16 , May 12, 2012
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                Thanks to everyone who replied to my question about how to explain to someone with a theory of how Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Rings by pointing them to the scholarship on the subject.  Thanks especially to Sarah Beach for registering for the message board in order to post some information about this subject.  As happens far too often when you explain to someone that they don't know enough about the subject that they are pontificating about, the person who started the thread just disappeared after enough people told him that he was wrong about much that he wrote about.
                 
                Wendell Wagner
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