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Re: [mythsoc] 1966 Hobbit cartoon

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  • Darrell A. Martin
    ... Wendell: C mon, tell us what you really think. ::grin:: I think Jackson s films are helped tremendously by three things. First, the production values are
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 11, 2012
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      On 1/11/2012 3:14 AM, WendellWag@... wrote:
      >
      >
      > Thanks for this link, John. I've read things like this before about the
      > Boorman film script. I think I would be less bothered by reading the
      > Boorman script than by reading the scripts that Jackson or Bakshi
      > actually used in their versions, even though I would never approve any
      > of them actually being made into a film (as Jackson and Bakshi, alas,
      > actually did do). All three of them come across as typical "Oh, I'm so
      > creative that you can trust me in any changes I make." Boorman though
      > seems to be brilliant but insane. After enjoying what he wrote, I would
      > urge him to quit using drugs and get some psychological help.
      > Wendell Wagner

      Wendell:

      C'mon, tell us what you really think. ::grin::

      I think Jackson's films are helped tremendously by three things. First,
      the production values are so high that one sometimes loses sight of the
      liberties he is taking with the text. Second, Bakshi set the bar so
      terribly, astoundingly, low that anything that follows would be hard put
      not to shine by comparison. And third, whatever else one might say,
      Jackson does seem to genuinely *like* Tolkien's works.

      No, I am not satisfied with the end result of his re-imagining.

      - He misunderstands Orcs completely (they should be average to small in
      stature, dull, boring, dangerous only in groups, terrified of any "tark"
      and no match for any decent human or elf warrior with odds less than
      about 10 to 1).

      - He gets Theoden wrong at the core, in an area dear to Tolkien's heart,
      honor in the face of overwhelming odds.

      - He thinks Liv Tyler (a pleasant enough looking young woman, I suppose)
      to be a suitable Arwen, and that Arwen deserves a bigger slice of the
      plot pie.

      - And he butchers Gimli beyond any hope of defense. Comic relief is the
      Hobbits' job. Gimli is who you want when you go in that proverbial dark
      alley, where LOTS of nasty people who don't like you live. He is the
      stumpy-legged guy who RUNS across Rohan, making a mockery of a marathon,
      keeping up with a Dunadan and an Elf by sheer force of will, not
      something to be "tossed". *ptui*

      But although mountainous, island, New Zealand could not provide any
      landscape suitable for the plains of Rohan (the Gothic steppes) the
      scenery is wonderful. I love Hobbiton, even when I "notice things". I
      like Boromir. As unimpressed as I am with Frodo, I appreciate the other
      Hobbits, especially Sam. Gandalf comes across well. My opinion of
      Galadriel improves with each viewing. And the visual representation of
      Sauron is imaginative and *right*, especially his death throes.

      And then there is Gollum. What can I say? Jackson's computer animated
      creation *IS* Gollum, and I can't imagine having any mental picture of
      the character that is not Jackson's, ever again.

      So, "alas" that Jackson did what he did? I cannot agree. Even though his
      Gondorians are not 7th Century Roman/Byzantines, as everyone knows they
      ought to be....

      Darrell
    • Croft, Janet B.
      A slightly better version of my paper is here,
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 11, 2012
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        A slightly better version of my paper is here, http://ou.academia.edu/JanetCroft/Papers/977728/Three_Rings_for_Hollywood_Scripts_for_The_Lord_of_the_Rings_by_Zimmerman_Boorman_and_Beagle

         

        For final published version, see: Croft, Janet Brennan. “Three Rings for Hollywood: Scripts for The Lord of the Rings by Zimmerman, Boorman, and Beagle.” (Book chapter) Fantasy Fiction Into Film. Ed. Leslie Stratyner and James R. Keller. McFarland, 2007. 7-20.

         

        Janet Brennan Croft

        Associate Professor
        Head of Access Services
        University of Oklahoma Libraries
        Bizzell 106NW
        Norman OK 73019
        405-325-1918
        Fax 405-325-7618
        jbcroft@...
        http://ou.academia.edu/JanetCroft

        http://libraries.ou.edu/
        Editor of Mythlore
        http://www.mythsoc.org/mythlore.html

        Book Review Editor of Oklahoma Librarian http://www.oklibs.org/oklibrarian/current/index.html

        "Humans need fantasy to be human. To be the place where the rising ape meets the falling angel." -Terry Pratchett

         

        From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darrell A. Martin
        Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 5:10 AM
        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] 1966 Hobbit cartoon

         

         

        On 1/11/2012 3:14 AM, WendellWag@... wrote:

        >
        >
        > Thanks for this link, John. I've read things like this before about the
        > Boorman film script. I think I would be less bothered by reading the
        > Boorman script than by reading the scripts that Jackson or Bakshi
        > actually used in their versions, even though I would never approve any
        > of them actually being made into a film (as Jackson and Bakshi, alas,
        > actually did do). All three of them come across as typical "Oh, I'm so
        > creative that you can trust me in any changes I make." Boorman though
        > seems to be brilliant but insane. After enjoying what he wrote, I would
        > urge him to quit using drugs and get some psychological help.
        > Wendell Wagner

        Wendell:

        C'mon, tell us what you really think. ::grin::

        I think Jackson's films are helped tremendously by three things. First,
        the production values are so high that one sometimes loses sight of the
        liberties he is taking with the text. Second, Bakshi set the bar so
        terribly, astoundingly, low that anything that follows would be hard put
        not to shine by comparison. And third, whatever else one might say,
        Jackson does seem to genuinely *like* Tolkien's works.

        No, I am not satisfied with the end result of his re-imagining.

        - He misunderstands Orcs completely (they should be average to small in
        stature, dull, boring, dangerous only in groups, terrified of any "tark"
        and no match for any decent human or elf warrior with odds less than
        about 10 to 1).

        - He gets Theoden wrong at the core, in an area dear to Tolkien's heart,
        honor in the face of overwhelming odds.

        - He thinks Liv Tyler (a pleasant enough looking young woman, I suppose)
        to be a suitable Arwen, and that Arwen deserves a bigger slice of the
        plot pie.

        - And he butchers Gimli beyond any hope of defense. Comic relief is the
        Hobbits' job. Gimli is who you want when you go in that proverbial dark
        alley, where LOTS of nasty people who don't like you live. He is the
        stumpy-legged guy who RUNS across Rohan, making a mockery of a marathon,
        keeping up with a Dunadan and an Elf by sheer force of will, not
        something to be "tossed". *ptui*

        But although mountainous, island, New Zealand could not provide any
        landscape suitable for the plains of Rohan (the Gothic steppes) the
        scenery is wonderful. I love Hobbiton, even when I "notice things". I
        like Boromir. As unimpressed as I am with Frodo, I appreciate the other
        Hobbits, especially Sam. Gandalf comes across well. My opinion of
        Galadriel improves with each viewing. And the visual representation of
        Sauron is imaginative and *right*, especially his death throes.

        And then there is Gollum. What can I say? Jackson's computer animated
        creation *IS* Gollum, and I can't imagine having any mental picture of
        the character that is not Jackson's, ever again.

        So, "alas" that Jackson did what he did? I cannot agree. Even though his
        Gondorians are not 7th Century Roman/Byzantines, as everyone knows they
        ought to be....

        Darrell

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