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Re: [mythsoc] 1966 Hobbit cartoon

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  • WendellWag@aol.com
    Thanks for this link, John. I ve read things like this before about the Boorman film script. I think I would be less bothered by reading the Boorman script
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 11, 2012
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      Thanks for this link, John.  I've read things like this before about the Boorman film script.  I think I would be less bothered by reading the Boorman script than by reading the scripts that Jackson or Bakshi actually used in their versions, even though I would never approve any of them actually being made into a film (as Jackson and Bakshi, alas, actually did do).  All three of them come across as typical "Oh, I'm so creative that you can trust me in any changes I make."  Boorman though seems to be brilliant but insane.  After enjoying what he wrote, I would urge him to quit using drugs and get some psychological help.
       
      Wendell Wagner
       
      In a message dated 1/11/2012 12:33:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, sacnoth@... writes:
      P.S.: Did some checking, and Janet's piece I was thinking of is called "Three Rings for Hollywood", wh. is available here:  http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/C/Janet.B.Croft-1/three_rings_for_hollyw ood.htm  Brief, but gives some idea of Boorman's approach.
    • Darrell A. Martin
      ... Wendell: C mon, tell us what you really think. ::grin:: I think Jackson s films are helped tremendously by three things. First, the production values are
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 11, 2012
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        On 1/11/2012 3:14 AM, WendellWag@... wrote:
        >
        >
        > Thanks for this link, John. I've read things like this before about the
        > Boorman film script. I think I would be less bothered by reading the
        > Boorman script than by reading the scripts that Jackson or Bakshi
        > actually used in their versions, even though I would never approve any
        > of them actually being made into a film (as Jackson and Bakshi, alas,
        > actually did do). All three of them come across as typical "Oh, I'm so
        > creative that you can trust me in any changes I make." Boorman though
        > seems to be brilliant but insane. After enjoying what he wrote, I would
        > urge him to quit using drugs and get some psychological help.
        > Wendell Wagner

        Wendell:

        C'mon, tell us what you really think. ::grin::

        I think Jackson's films are helped tremendously by three things. First,
        the production values are so high that one sometimes loses sight of the
        liberties he is taking with the text. Second, Bakshi set the bar so
        terribly, astoundingly, low that anything that follows would be hard put
        not to shine by comparison. And third, whatever else one might say,
        Jackson does seem to genuinely *like* Tolkien's works.

        No, I am not satisfied with the end result of his re-imagining.

        - He misunderstands Orcs completely (they should be average to small in
        stature, dull, boring, dangerous only in groups, terrified of any "tark"
        and no match for any decent human or elf warrior with odds less than
        about 10 to 1).

        - He gets Theoden wrong at the core, in an area dear to Tolkien's heart,
        honor in the face of overwhelming odds.

        - He thinks Liv Tyler (a pleasant enough looking young woman, I suppose)
        to be a suitable Arwen, and that Arwen deserves a bigger slice of the
        plot pie.

        - And he butchers Gimli beyond any hope of defense. Comic relief is the
        Hobbits' job. Gimli is who you want when you go in that proverbial dark
        alley, where LOTS of nasty people who don't like you live. He is the
        stumpy-legged guy who RUNS across Rohan, making a mockery of a marathon,
        keeping up with a Dunadan and an Elf by sheer force of will, not
        something to be "tossed". *ptui*

        But although mountainous, island, New Zealand could not provide any
        landscape suitable for the plains of Rohan (the Gothic steppes) the
        scenery is wonderful. I love Hobbiton, even when I "notice things". I
        like Boromir. As unimpressed as I am with Frodo, I appreciate the other
        Hobbits, especially Sam. Gandalf comes across well. My opinion of
        Galadriel improves with each viewing. And the visual representation of
        Sauron is imaginative and *right*, especially his death throes.

        And then there is Gollum. What can I say? Jackson's computer animated
        creation *IS* Gollum, and I can't imagine having any mental picture of
        the character that is not Jackson's, ever again.

        So, "alas" that Jackson did what he did? I cannot agree. Even though his
        Gondorians are not 7th Century Roman/Byzantines, as everyone knows they
        ought to be....

        Darrell
      • Croft, Janet B.
        A slightly better version of my paper is here,
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 11, 2012
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          A slightly better version of my paper is here, http://ou.academia.edu/JanetCroft/Papers/977728/Three_Rings_for_Hollywood_Scripts_for_The_Lord_of_the_Rings_by_Zimmerman_Boorman_and_Beagle

           

          For final published version, see: Croft, Janet Brennan. “Three Rings for Hollywood: Scripts for The Lord of the Rings by Zimmerman, Boorman, and Beagle.” (Book chapter) Fantasy Fiction Into Film. Ed. Leslie Stratyner and James R. Keller. McFarland, 2007. 7-20.

           

          Janet Brennan Croft

          Associate Professor
          Head of Access Services
          University of Oklahoma Libraries
          Bizzell 106NW
          Norman OK 73019
          405-325-1918
          Fax 405-325-7618
          jbcroft@...
          http://ou.academia.edu/JanetCroft

          http://libraries.ou.edu/
          Editor of Mythlore
          http://www.mythsoc.org/mythlore.html

          Book Review Editor of Oklahoma Librarian http://www.oklibs.org/oklibrarian/current/index.html

          "Humans need fantasy to be human. To be the place where the rising ape meets the falling angel." -Terry Pratchett

           

          From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darrell A. Martin
          Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 5:10 AM
          To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [mythsoc] 1966 Hobbit cartoon

           

           

          On 1/11/2012 3:14 AM, WendellWag@... wrote:

          >
          >
          > Thanks for this link, John. I've read things like this before about the
          > Boorman film script. I think I would be less bothered by reading the
          > Boorman script than by reading the scripts that Jackson or Bakshi
          > actually used in their versions, even though I would never approve any
          > of them actually being made into a film (as Jackson and Bakshi, alas,
          > actually did do). All three of them come across as typical "Oh, I'm so
          > creative that you can trust me in any changes I make." Boorman though
          > seems to be brilliant but insane. After enjoying what he wrote, I would
          > urge him to quit using drugs and get some psychological help.
          > Wendell Wagner

          Wendell:

          C'mon, tell us what you really think. ::grin::

          I think Jackson's films are helped tremendously by three things. First,
          the production values are so high that one sometimes loses sight of the
          liberties he is taking with the text. Second, Bakshi set the bar so
          terribly, astoundingly, low that anything that follows would be hard put
          not to shine by comparison. And third, whatever else one might say,
          Jackson does seem to genuinely *like* Tolkien's works.

          No, I am not satisfied with the end result of his re-imagining.

          - He misunderstands Orcs completely (they should be average to small in
          stature, dull, boring, dangerous only in groups, terrified of any "tark"
          and no match for any decent human or elf warrior with odds less than
          about 10 to 1).

          - He gets Theoden wrong at the core, in an area dear to Tolkien's heart,
          honor in the face of overwhelming odds.

          - He thinks Liv Tyler (a pleasant enough looking young woman, I suppose)
          to be a suitable Arwen, and that Arwen deserves a bigger slice of the
          plot pie.

          - And he butchers Gimli beyond any hope of defense. Comic relief is the
          Hobbits' job. Gimli is who you want when you go in that proverbial dark
          alley, where LOTS of nasty people who don't like you live. He is the
          stumpy-legged guy who RUNS across Rohan, making a mockery of a marathon,
          keeping up with a Dunadan and an Elf by sheer force of will, not
          something to be "tossed". *ptui*

          But although mountainous, island, New Zealand could not provide any
          landscape suitable for the plains of Rohan (the Gothic steppes) the
          scenery is wonderful. I love Hobbiton, even when I "notice things". I
          like Boromir. As unimpressed as I am with Frodo, I appreciate the other
          Hobbits, especially Sam. Gandalf comes across well. My opinion of
          Galadriel improves with each viewing. And the visual representation of
          Sauron is imaginative and *right*, especially his death throes.

          And then there is Gollum. What can I say? Jackson's computer animated
          creation *IS* Gollum, and I can't imagine having any mental picture of
          the character that is not Jackson's, ever again.

          So, "alas" that Jackson did what he did? I cannot agree. Even though his
          Gondorians are not 7th Century Roman/Byzantines, as everyone knows they
          ought to be....

          Darrell

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