Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [mythsoc] Re: Created Languages

Expand Messages
  • scribbler@scribblerworks.us
    Whoa! What????? Excuse me, but I hope to God that is approved by the authors, because it is part of ML agreements that after the publication in ML, ALL RIGHTS
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 25, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Whoa! What?????

      Excuse me, but I hope to God that is approved by the authors, because it
      is part of ML agreements that after the publication in ML, ALL RIGHTS
      REVERT TO THE AUTHORS, and if ML articles are being sold on Amazon without
      their permissions IT IS COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!!! (Not to say a matter of
      cheating authors out of money!)

      For TEN DOLLARS????

      Sarah


      >
      >
      > --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Higgins <asthiggins@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> There is this interesting website which I have not explored enough
      >> http://www.zompist.com/kit.html
      >
      > Yes, the associated book "The Language Construction Kit" by Marc
      > Rosenfelder got a favorable review from, IIRC, Harley Sims in Mythlore a
      > while back. He certainly wrote an unfavorable review of Okrent's book in
      > Mythlore, in Nov. 2010. (I myself liked Okrent's book a lot.)
      >
      > BTW, I was surprised to find that Amazon sells Mythlore articles for
      > download at $10.00 a pop.
      > http://www.amazon.com/Land-Invented-Languages-Esperanto-Language/dp/B004EHVYEG
      >
      > Considering that you can buy an individual issue from mythsoc for $15 and
      > a yearly subscription for $33 ($25 for mythsoc members), that seems
      > ridiculously overpriced. Is there any possibility of making past issues of
      > Mythlore available online on the mythsoc site or getting them onto JSTOR?
      >
      > -- Ernie
      >
      >
    • Alana Joli Abbott
      Amazon does this for a bunch of stuff available from Gale products, also -- basically, if it s available through Gale s Power Search or Highbeam Research, it
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 25, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Amazon does this for a bunch of stuff available from Gale products, also -- basically, if it's available through Gale's Power Search or Highbeam Research, it can end up at Amazon for that per article price. Most of the reference books like Contemporary Authors are up for that same rate, too.

        If Mythlore gets syndicated through any of those digital databases, that's probably how Amazon's getting the license.

        -Alana

        On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 11:45 AM, <scribbler@...> wrote:
         

        Whoa! What?????

        Excuse me, but I hope to God that is approved by the authors, because it
        is part of ML agreements that after the publication in ML, ALL RIGHTS
        REVERT TO THE AUTHORS, and if ML articles are being sold on Amazon without
        their permissions IT IS COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!!! (Not to say a matter of
        cheating authors out of money!)

        For TEN DOLLARS????

        Sarah



        >
        >
        > --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Higgins <asthiggins@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> There is this interesting website which I have not explored enough
        >> http://www.zompist.com/kit.html
        >
        > Yes, the associated book "The Language Construction Kit" by Marc
        > Rosenfelder got a favorable review from, IIRC, Harley Sims in Mythlore a
        > while back. He certainly wrote an unfavorable review of Okrent's book in
        > Mythlore, in Nov. 2010. (I myself liked Okrent's book a lot.)
        >
        > BTW, I was surprised to find that Amazon sells Mythlore articles for
        > download at $10.00 a pop.
        > http://www.amazon.com/Land-Invented-Languages-Esperanto-Language/dp/B004EHVYEG
        >
        > Considering that you can buy an individual issue from mythsoc for $15 and
        > a yearly subscription for $33 ($25 for mythsoc members), that seems
        > ridiculously overpriced. Is there any possibility of making past issues of
        > Mythlore available online on the mythsoc site or getting them onto JSTOR?
        >
        > -- Ernie
        >
        >




        --
        Alana Joli Abbott, Freelance Writer and Editor (http://www.virgilandbeatrice.com)
        Author of Into the Reach and Departure, available at http://tinyurl.com/aja-ebooks
        Columnist, "The Town with Five Main Streets," http://branford.patch.com/columns/the-town-with-five-main-streets

        --
        For updates on my writings, join my mailing list at http://groups.google.com/group/alanajoliabbottfans

      • scribbler@scribblerworks.us
        I checked out the Amazon link after I reacted. It SAYS reprinted by permission - so I m going to assume that it was Harley himself that put it up there. But
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 25, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          I checked out the Amazon link after I reacted. It SAYS reprinted by
          permission - so I'm going to assume that it was Harley himself that put it
          up there.

          But still.... $10.00 for a 5 page paper? Wow.

          (And here I am, posting on my own website, pieces of my non-Tolkien
          scholarship for free!)

          Sarah


          > Whoa! What?????
          >
          > Excuse me, but I hope to God that is approved by the authors, because it
          > is part of ML agreements that after the publication in ML, ALL RIGHTS
          > REVERT TO THE AUTHORS, and if ML articles are being sold on Amazon without
          > their permissions IT IS COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!!! (Not to say a matter of
          > cheating authors out of money!)
          >
          > For TEN DOLLARS????
          >
          > Sarah
          >
          >
          >>
          >>
          >> --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Higgins <asthiggins@...> wrote:
          >>>
          >>> There is this interesting website which I have not explored enough
          >>> http://www.zompist.com/kit.html
          >>
          >> Yes, the associated book "The Language Construction Kit" by Marc
          >> Rosenfelder got a favorable review from, IIRC, Harley Sims in Mythlore a
          >> while back. He certainly wrote an unfavorable review of Okrent's book in
          >> Mythlore, in Nov. 2010. (I myself liked Okrent's book a lot.)
          >>
          >> BTW, I was surprised to find that Amazon sells Mythlore articles for
          >> download at $10.00 a pop.
          >> http://www.amazon.com/Land-Invented-Languages-Esperanto-Language/dp/B004EHVYEG
          >>
          >> Considering that you can buy an individual issue from mythsoc for $15
          >> and
          >> a yearly subscription for $33 ($25 for mythsoc members), that seems
          >> ridiculously overpriced. Is there any possibility of making past issues
          >> of
          >> Mythlore available online on the mythsoc site or getting them onto
          >> JSTOR?
          >>
          >> -- Ernie
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
        • Croft, Janet B.
          That s exactly it. I don t think we get many sales that way - Lisa would know - but it s part of our agreement with Gale that they can sell copies of articles
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 25, 2011
          • 0 Attachment

            That’s exactly it. I don’t think we get many sales that way – Lisa would know – but it’s part of our agreement with Gale that they can sell copies of articles through Amazon and other vendors and we get our cut. This is spelled out in Mythlore’s contract with its authors, or at least it has been since I became editor.

             

            Mythlore currently has agreements with Gale, Ebsco, and ProQuest and appears in several of their library subscription databases and their subcontracted products (2002 on in Gale’s Expanded Academic ASAP, 2006 on in ProQuest’s Literature Online, and I forget what it is in EBSCO – probably 2002.). ProQuest has a new product for individual consumers which will be out this fall, and we’ve been invited to join but have not decided yet. We have not been invited by JSTOR or Project MUSE yet, but I’m hopeful. We continue to look at ways to offer Mythlore electronically, but in the meantime, you can always contact me directly if you need a scan of an article for scholarly purposes – don’t pay that ridiculous Amazon price!

             

            These companies have been very good about contacting us when they get other requested uses of our articles, like reprinting them in an critical anthology. In those cases I pass the decision on to the author.

             

            Janet Brennan Croft

            Associate Professor
            Head of Access Services
            University of Oklahoma Libraries
            Bizzell 104NW
            Norman OK 73019
            405-325-1918
            Fax 405-325-7618
            jbcroft@...
            http://ou.academia.edu/JanetCroft/CurriculumVitae
            http://libraries.ou.edu/
            Editor of Mythlore
            http://www.mythsoc.org/mythlore.html

            Book Review Editor of Oklahoma Librarian http://www.oklibs.org/oklibrarian/current/index.html

            "Humans need fantasy to be human. To be the place where the rising ape meets the falling angel." -Terry Pratchett

             

            From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alana Joli Abbott
            Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 10:54 AM
            To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: Created Languages

             

             

            Amazon does this for a bunch of stuff available from Gale products, also -- basically, if it's available through Gale's Power Search or Highbeam Research, it can end up at Amazon for that per article price. Most of the reference books like Contemporary Authors are up for that same rate, too.

             

            If Mythlore gets syndicated through any of those digital databases, that's probably how Amazon's getting the license.

             

            -Alana

            On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 11:45 AM, <scribbler@...> wrote:

             

            Whoa! What?????

            Excuse me, but I hope to God that is approved by the authors, because it
            is part of ML agreements that after the publication in ML, ALL RIGHTS
            REVERT TO THE AUTHORS, and if ML articles are being sold on Amazon without
            their permissions IT IS COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!!! (Not to say a matter of
            cheating authors out of money!)

            For TEN DOLLARS????

            Sarah



            >
            >
            > --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Higgins <asthiggins@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> There is this interesting website which I have not explored enough
            >> http://www.zompist.com/kit.html
            >
            > Yes, the associated book "The Language Construction Kit" by Marc
            > Rosenfelder got a favorable review from, IIRC, Harley Sims in Mythlore a
            > while back. He certainly wrote an unfavorable review of Okrent's book in
            > Mythlore, in Nov. 2010. (I myself liked Okrent's book a lot.)
            >
            > BTW, I was surprised to find that Amazon sells Mythlore articles for
            > download at $10.00 a pop.
            > http://www.amazon.com/Land-Invented-Languages-Esperanto-Language/dp/B004EHVYEG
            >
            > Considering that you can buy an individual issue from mythsoc for $15 and
            > a yearly subscription for $33 ($25 for mythsoc members), that seems
            > ridiculously overpriced. Is there any possibility of making past issues of
            > Mythlore available online on the mythsoc site or getting them onto JSTOR?
            >
            > -- Ernie
            >
            >



             

            --
            Alana Joli Abbott, Freelance Writer and Editor (http://www.virgilandbeatrice.com)

            Author of Into the Reach and Departure, available at http://tinyurl.com/aja-ebooks
            Columnist, "The Town with Five Main Streets," http://branford.patch.com/columns/the-town-with-five-main-streets

            --
            For updates on my writings, join my mailing list at http://groups.google.com/group/alanajoliabbottfans

             

          • David Bratman
            ... Wait a minute. I think you re confusing two different purposes of invented languages here. The self-published ones that proclaim their wonderfulness are
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 25, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              WendellWag@... wrote:

              >Most
              >creators of invented languages don't actually know much about linguistics and
              >don't understand just how different from the language (or languages) they
              >grew up with some languages can be. They thus produce languages that
              >aren't really that different from their own. This is why most invented
              >languages go nowhere beyond the self-published book that the inventor puts out
              >about how wonderful the new language is.

              Wait a minute. I think you're confusing two different purposes of invented languages here. The self-published ones that proclaim their wonderfulness are intended as practical universal languages, such as Esperanto. In these, similarity to existing languages and ease of use is a virtue, as the purpose is to create a common mode of communication that's privileged to none.

              It's literary languages, such as Tolkien's, where aesthetic virtues are paramount and striking differences from common languages are sought, and most inventors of full-scale literary languages are well-versed in these linguistic matters. The inventor of Klingon deliberately sought out the most exotic, from an English-speaker's point of view, characteristics from a wide variety of languages and put them all in one package for the most alien effect he could get.

              Literary languages in turn are not to be confused with the efforts of authors who make up a few words to sprinkle through their novels for the effect of an invented language that has no further body. Some of these authors have a talent for well-wrought names (Dunsany is a master in this respect), but many are very weak.
            • Alana Joli Abbott
              FWIW, most public libraries have access to one of those three databases for *free* for library patrons. So you can always check to see if they re available
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 25, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                FWIW, most public libraries have access to one of those three databases for free for library patrons. So you can always check to see if they're available through your library before paying amazon as well.

                -Alana

                On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Croft, Janet B. <jbcroft@...> wrote:
                 

                That’s exactly it. I don’t think we get many sales that way – Lisa would know – but it’s part of our agreement with Gale that they can sell copies of articles through Amazon and other vendors and we get our cut. This is spelled out in Mythlore’s contract with its authors, or at least it has been since I became editor.

                 

                Mythlore currently has agreements with Gale, Ebsco, and ProQuest and appears in several of their library subscription databases and their subcontracted products (2002 on in Gale’s Expanded Academic ASAP, 2006 on in ProQuest’s Literature Online, and I forget what it is in EBSCO – probably 2002.). ProQuest has a new product for individual consumers which will be out this fall, and we’ve been invited to join but have not decided yet. We have not been invited by JSTOR or Project MUSE yet, but I’m hopeful. We continue to look at ways to offer Mythlore electronically, but in the meantime, you can always contact me directly if you need a scan of an article for scholarly purposes – don’t pay that ridiculous Amazon price!

                 

                These companies have been very good about contacting us when they get other requested uses of our articles, like reprinting them in an critical anthology. In those cases I pass the decision on to the author.

                 

                Janet Brennan Croft

                Associate Professor
                Head of Access Services
                University of Oklahoma Libraries
                Bizzell 104NW
                Norman OK 73019
                405-325-1918
                Fax 405-325-7618
                jbcroft@...
                http://ou.academia.edu/JanetCroft/CurriculumVitae
                http://libraries.ou.edu/
                Editor of Mythlore
                http://www.mythsoc.org/mythlore.html

                Book Review Editor of Oklahoma Librarian http://www.oklibs.org/oklibrarian/current/index.html

                "Humans need fantasy to be human. To be the place where the rising ape meets the falling angel." -Terry Pratchett

                 

                From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alana Joli Abbott
                Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 10:54 AM
                To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: Created Languages

                 

                 

                Amazon does this for a bunch of stuff available from Gale products, also -- basically, if it's available through Gale's Power Search or Highbeam Research, it can end up at Amazon for that per article price. Most of the reference books like Contemporary Authors are up for that same rate, too.

                 

                If Mythlore gets syndicated through any of those digital databases, that's probably how Amazon's getting the license.

                 

                -Alana

                On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 11:45 AM, <scribbler@...> wrote:

                 

                Whoa! What?????

                Excuse me, but I hope to God that is approved by the authors, because it
                is part of ML agreements that after the publication in ML, ALL RIGHTS
                REVERT TO THE AUTHORS, and if ML articles are being sold on Amazon without
                their permissions IT IS COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!!! (Not to say a matter of
                cheating authors out of money!)

                For TEN DOLLARS????

                Sarah



                >
                >
                > --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Higgins <asthiggins@...> wrote:
                >>
                >> There is this interesting website which I have not explored enough
                >> http://www.zompist.com/kit.html
                >
                > Yes, the associated book "The Language Construction Kit" by Marc
                > Rosenfelder got a favorable review from, IIRC, Harley Sims in Mythlore a
                > while back. He certainly wrote an unfavorable review of Okrent's book in
                > Mythlore, in Nov. 2010. (I myself liked Okrent's book a lot.)
                >
                > BTW, I was surprised to find that Amazon sells Mythlore articles for
                > download at $10.00 a pop.
                > http://www.amazon.com/Land-Invented-Languages-Esperanto-Language/dp/B004EHVYEG
                >
                > Considering that you can buy an individual issue from mythsoc for $15 and
                > a yearly subscription for $33 ($25 for mythsoc members), that seems
                > ridiculously overpriced. Is there any possibility of making past issues of
                > Mythlore available online on the mythsoc site or getting them onto JSTOR?
                >
                > -- Ernie
                >
                >



                 

                --

                Alana Joli Abbott, Freelance Writer and Editor (http://www.virgilandbeatrice.com)

                Author of Into the Reach and Departure, available at http://tinyurl.com/aja-ebooks
                Columnist, "The Town with Five Main Streets," http://branford.patch.com/columns/the-town-with-five-main-streets

                --
                For updates on my writings, join my mailing list at http://groups.google.com/group/alanajoliabbottfans

                 




                --
                Alana Joli Abbott, Freelance Writer and Editor (http://www.virgilandbeatrice.com)
                Author of Into the Reach and Departure, available at http://tinyurl.com/aja-ebooks
                Columnist, "The Town with Five Main Streets," http://branford.patch.com/columns/the-town-with-five-main-streets

                --
                For updates on my writings, join my mailing list at http://groups.google.com/group/alanajoliabbottfans

              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.