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Re: [mythsoc] Ralph and Tumulty 2 Names

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  • dale nelson
    John, that about the medieval pronunciation suffices: Morris s hero shall be Rafe to me. Dale Nelson ________________________________ From: John Rateliff
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 20, 2011
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      John, that about the medieval pronunciation suffices: Morris's hero shall be "Rafe" to me.

      Dale Nelson


      From: John Rateliff <sacnoth@...>
      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Mon, June 20, 2011 7:44:12 PM
      Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Ralph and Tumulty 2 Names

       

      'Rafe' is definitely the medieval pronunciation. I assume Morris was aware of this, but I'm not sure offhand of any specific evidence to that effect.
         Funny that, even knowing that, I think of the Well's hero's name as 'ralff' not 'rafe'

      On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:27 PM, dale nelson wrote:

      Hello all!

      1.We pronounce composer Vaughan Williams's first name, Ralph, as Rafe.  So the hero of William Morris's The Well at the World's End: Pronounce it "ralph" or "rafe"?   Can anyone settle that question?  I always heard it as "ralph," but I wonder if Morris did.

      Jokes about Coleridge's "Afe the Sacred River" may be dispensed with.

      2.I had assumed Charles Williams invented the last name of his villain in War in Heaven and Many Dimensions, Giles Tumulty.  But recently I learned that Woodrow Wilson's secretary was named Joe Tumulty.  So it's a real name; and I suppose it is even possible that CW saw the secretary's name and relished its appropriateness for a bad guy.

      Dale

    • David Bratman
      ... I understand that Rafe is the standard English pronunciation, at least before Americanisms infected the language. I ve always assumed Morris s hero was
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 21, 2011
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        "dale nelson" <extollager2006@...> wrote:

        > 1.We pronounce composer Vaughan Williams's first name, Ralph, as Rafe. So
        > the
        > hero of William Morris's The Well at the World's End: Pronounce it "ralph"
        > or
        > "rafe"? Can anyone settle that question? I always heard it as "ralph,"
        > but I
        > wonder if Morris did.

        I understand that "Rafe" is the standard English pronunciation, at least
        before Americanisms infected the language. I've always assumed Morris's
        hero was Rafe.

        By the way, not everybody knows how to pronounce RVW's first name, and among
        those who don't was the pre-concert lecturer at a performance of "A Sea
        Symphony" I recently attended. I wanted to make a big sign reading "IT'S
        PRONOUNCED 'RAFE'" and hold it up.

        > 2.I had assumed Charles Williams invented the last name of his villain in
        > War in
        > Heaven and Many Dimensions, Giles Tumulty. But recently I learned that
        > Woodrow
        > Wilson's secretary was named Joe Tumulty. So it's a real name; and I
        > suppose it
        > is even possible that CW saw the secretary's name and relished its
        > appropriateness for a bad guy.

        If it's an existing name, CW could easily have seen it somewhere else too.
        Absent further evidence, I rate this scenario even less likely than the idea
        that Tolkien was inspired by Theodore "The Man" Bilbo.
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