Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: language change

Expand Messages
  • Margaret L. Carter
    Message 1 of 21 , Apr 27, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      <There's a hit list of some pretty good words, some of which are outmoded 
      already and some that are on their way out
      >

      And the adverb groups where / whence / wither, there / thence / thither, and here / hence / hither. They elegantly indicated position or motion to or from; now they're relegated to archaism.

      I don't think there's anything necessarily Orwellian going on, though. Language typically gets simplified over the centuries by the dropping of less-used forms.

      Margaret Carter
    • Darrell A. Martin
      ... Margaret: Yes, language does change. Otherwise we wouldn t need philologists. And it is a good thing to keep those philologists employed; never know what
      Message 2 of 21 , Apr 27, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        On 4/27/2011 1:36 PM, Margaret L. Carter wrote:
        >
        > <There's a hit list of some pretty good words, some of which are outmoded
        >
        > already and some that are on their way out>
        >
        > And the adverb groups where / whence / wither, there / thence / thither, and here / hence / hither. They elegantly indicated position or motion to or from; now they're relegated to archaism.
        >
        > I don't think there's anything necessarily Orwellian going on, though. Language typically gets simplified over the centuries by the dropping of less-used forms.
        >
        > Margaret Carter

        Margaret:

        Yes, language does change. Otherwise we wouldn't need philologists. And
        it is a good thing to keep those philologists employed; never know what
        they might come up with in their spare time, if they don't have to work
        two jobs.

        Darrell
      • Mike Foster
        Darrell, I am, at best, merely an amateur philologist, and certainly no firearms specialist, but a much needed Invention is Apostrophe Insert/Delete Paintball
        Message 3 of 21 , Apr 27, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Darrell,
          I am, at best, merely an amateur philologist, and certainly no firearms specialist, but a much needed Invention is Apostrophe Insert/Delete Paintball Rifle for billboards that say “Its special!  Mom’s and dad’s breakfast for $4.99!  Kid’s eat free!’”
           
          This would be especially for travelling from Illinois to Georgia and back.
           
          And heck.  Once you’re south of Clarksville, no one notices if you roll down a window and poke out a gun barrel.
           
          Cheers,
          Mike
           
          Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 6:28 PM
          Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: language change
           
           

          On 4/27/2011 1:36 PM, Margaret L. Carter wrote:
          >
          > <There's a hit list of some pretty good words, some of which are outmoded
          >
          > already and some that are on their way out>
          >
          > And the adverb groups where / whence / wither, there / thence / thither, and here / hence / hither. They elegantly indicated position or motion to or from; now they're relegated to archaism.
          >
          > I don't think there's anything necessarily Orwellian going on, though. Language typically gets simplified over the centuries by the dropping of less-used forms.
          >
          > Margaret Carter

          Margaret:

          Yes, language does change. Otherwise we wouldn't need philologists. And
          it is a good thing to keep those philologists employed; never know what
          they might come up with in their spare time, if they don't have to work
          two jobs.

          Darrell

        • Darrell A. Martin
          ... Mike: I think somebody would notice if I poked my .75 caliber Brown Bess 46 barrel out the window of my car, on my annual trek to Jubilee Colonial Faire
          Message 4 of 21 , Apr 27, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            On 4/27/2011 7:04 PM, Mike Foster wrote:
            >
            >
            > Darrell,
            > I am, at best, merely an amateur philologist, and certainly no firearms
            > specialist, but a much needed Invention is Apostrophe Insert/Delete
            > Paintball Rifle for billboards that say “Its special! Mom’s and dad’s
            > breakfast for $4.99! Kid’s eat free!’”
            > This would be especially for travelling from Illinois to Georgia and back.
            > And heck. Once you’re south of Clarksville, no one notices if you roll
            > down a window and poke out a gun barrel.
            > Cheers,
            > Mike

            Mike:

            I think somebody would notice if I poked my .75 caliber Brown Bess' 46"
            barrel out the window of my car, on my annual trek to Jubilee Colonial
            Faire in Brimfield, Illinois.

            Darrell
          • lynnmaudlin
            The fact that *this* particular message is messed up (Mike, I assume you responded from your email program rather than coming to the group online?) is
            Message 5 of 21 , Apr 28, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              The fact that *this* particular message is messed up (Mike, I assume you responded from your email program rather than coming to the group online?) is unreasonably amusing to me...

              -- Lynn --


              --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Foster" <mafoster@...> wrote:
              >
              > Darrell,
              > I am, at best, merely an amateur philologist, and certainly no firearms specialist, but a much needed Invention is Apostrophe Insert/Delete Paintball Rifle for billboards that say “Its special! Mom’s and dad’s breakfast for $4.99! Kid’s eat free!’”
              >
              > This would be especially for travelling from Illinois to Georgia and back.
              >
              > And heck. Once you’re south of Clarksville, no one notices if you roll down a window and poke out a gun barrel.
              >
              > Cheers,
              > Mike
              >
              > From: Darrell A. Martin
              > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 6:28 PM
              > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: language change
              >
              >
              > On 4/27/2011 1:36 PM, Margaret L. Carter wrote:
              > >
              > > <There's a hit list of some pretty good words, some of which are outmoded
              > >
              > > already and some that are on their way out>
              > >
              > > And the adverb groups where / whence / wither, there / thence / thither, and here / hence / hither. They elegantly indicated position or motion to or from; now they're relegated to archaism.
              > >
              > > I don't think there's anything necessarily Orwellian going on, though. Language typically gets simplified over the centuries by the dropping of less-used forms.
              > >
              > > Margaret Carter
              >
              > Margaret:
              >
              > Yes, language does change. Otherwise we wouldn't need philologists. And
              > it is a good thing to keep those philologists employed; never know what
              > they might come up with in their spare time, if they don't have to work
              > two jobs.
              >
              > Darrell
              >
            • Paula Bergstrom
              Hence is on its way out (such a useful word)? Well, dang! (Is dang on its way out too? I m so behind-the-times.) Paula To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com From:
              Message 6 of 21 , Apr 28, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                'Hence' is on its way out (such a useful word)? Well, dang! (Is 'dang' on its way out too? I'm so behind-the-times.)

                Paula


                To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                From: mlcvamp@...
                Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 14:36:55 -0400
                Subject: [mythsoc] Re: language change

                 
                <There's a hit list of some pretty good words, some of which are outmoded 
                already and some that are on their way out
                >

                And the adverb groups where / whence / wither, there / thence / thither, and here / hence / hither. They elegantly indicated position or motion to or from; now they're relegated to archaism.

                I don't think there's anything necessarily Orwellian going on, though. Language typically gets simplified over the centuries by the dropping of less-used forms.

                Margaret Carter

              • Alana Abbott
                This makes me wonder if I m using hence incorrectly. We often use it in place of therefore around here -- is that an alternate definition? An anachronism?
                Message 7 of 21 , Apr 28, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  This makes me wonder if I'm using "hence" incorrectly. We often use it in place of "therefore" around here -- is that an alternate definition? An anachronism? Or just plain wrong?

                  -Alana

                  On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Paula Bergstrom <paulabergstrom@...> wrote:
                   

                  'Hence' is on its way out (such a useful word)? Well, dang! (Is 'dang' on its way out too? I'm so behind-the-times.)

                  Paula






                  --
                  Alana Joli Abbott, Freelance Writer and Editor (http://www.virgilandbeatrice.com)
                  Author of Into the Reach and Departure, available at http://tinyurl.com/aja-ebooks
                  Columnist, "The Town with Five Main Streets," http://branford.patch.com/columns/the-town-with-five-main-streets
                  Contributor to Origins Award winner, Serenity Adventures: http://tinyurl.com/serenity-adventures
                  --
                  For updates on my writings, join my mailing list at http://groups.google.com/group/alanajoliabbottfans

                • David Emerson
                  ... From: Paula Bergstrom ... Hence is still used as a synonym for ergo . And whence ? Well if it s good enough for Bob Dylan, it s good enough for me:
                  Message 8 of 21 , Apr 28, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Paula Bergstrom
                    >'Hence' is on its way out (such a useful word)? Well, dang!

                    "Hence" is still used as a synonym for "ergo". And "whence"? Well if it's good enough for Bob Dylan, it's good enough for me:

                    "And if you're looking to get silly / You better go back to from whence you came."
                    -- Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues

                    Okay, so his grammar is somewhat mangled...

                    emerdavid

                    ________________________________________
                    PeoplePC Online
                    A better way to Internet
                    http://www.peoplepc.com
                  • Darrell A. Martin
                    ... Alana: The pair, here, there had a matching pair, hence, thence which can be simply defined, from here, from there . Hence , in the sense of from
                    Message 9 of 21 , Apr 28, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      On 4/28/2011 9:41 AM, Alana Abbott wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > This makes me wonder if I'm using "hence" incorrectly. We often use it
                      > in place of "therefore" around here -- is that an alternate definition?
                      > An anachronism? Or just plain wrong?
                      >
                      > -Alana

                      Alana:

                      The pair, "here, there" had a matching pair, "hence, thence" which can
                      be simply defined, "from here, from there".

                      "Hence", in the sense of "from here", is often used metaphorically. That
                      is to say, "having reached 'where we are', FROM HERE we may proceed".
                      Hence, your usage is correct.

                      Darrell
                    • John Rateliff
                      One further thought I find it amusing is that some grammarians try to correct people who say from whence , arguing that the proper usage is just whence .
                      Message 10 of 21 , Apr 28, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        One further thought I find it amusing is that some grammarians try to 'correct' people who say "from whence", arguing that the proper usage is just "whence". They fail to take into account that "whence" has pretty much dropped out of spoken English, except in the literary tag ("from whence you came") David mentions. So their 'correction' would, if adopted, mean the word's disappearance from usage altogether.


                        On Apr 28, 2011, at 9:11 AM, David Emerson wrote:
                        ". . .  You better go back to from whence you came."

                        Okay, so his grammar is somewhat mangled...

                        Actually, it's elliptical: "You [had] better go back to [from when you came], with the verbal auxiliary "had" dropped (as it sometimes is in colloquial English for emphasis and "from whence you came" serving as the object of the preposition "to". It works because from-whence-you-came is enough of a cliche or tag line (like 'to whom it may concern'*) that he cleverly uses it as a unit for poetic effect.

                        Ain't grammar grand?

                        --JDR

                        *itself pretty much the only survival of whom in spoken English.
                      • Larry Swain
                        On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 12:20 -0700, John Rateliff ... try to correct people who say from whence , arguing that the proper usage is just whence . They fail
                        Message 11 of 21 , Apr 28, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 12:20 -0700, "John Rateliff"
                          <sacnoth@...> wrote:



                          >>One further thought I find it amusing is that some grammarians
                          try to 'correct' people who say "from whence", arguing that the
                          proper usage is just "whence". They fail to take into account
                          that "whence" has pretty much dropped out of spoken English,
                          except in the literary tag ("from whence you came") David
                          mentions. So their 'correction' would, if adopted, mean the
                          word's disappearance from usage altogether.<<

                          Even more amusing is that "from whence" is attested in major writers
                          from the 14th century onward, including in Langland, Malory,
                          Shakespeare, the King James, Dryden, Dickens, Robert Stevenson, etc.
                          There are also uses such as "of whence" and "whence-from." I think it
                          difficult for hyper-correcting grammarians to maintain that Shakespeare
                          and Dickens and co. got it wrong. About the only thing that can be said
                          is that it is *redundant* to say "from whence" or "of whence", but then
                          language is full of useful, perfectly grammatical redundancies. So I'm
                          amused by grammarians who correct a perfectly grammatical and
                          well-attested usage.

                          Larry Swain

                          --
                          http://www.fastmail.fm - Accessible with your email software
                          or over the web
                        • lynnmaudlin
                          oh thank you! That helps me, too - like so many folks with large vocabularies, I ve gained much of it simply by usage (hearing, reading, & absorbing) and I ve
                          Message 12 of 21 , Apr 28, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            oh thank you! That helps me, too - like so many folks with large vocabularies, I've gained much of it simply by usage (hearing, reading, & absorbing) and I've used "hence" as a synonym for "therefore" - but it's got a slightly different quality to it, which you've managed to impart - thanks!!

                            -- Lynn --

                            --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Darrell A. Martin" <darrellm@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > On 4/28/2011 9:41 AM, Alana Abbott wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > This makes me wonder if I'm using "hence" incorrectly. We often use it
                            > > in place of "therefore" around here -- is that an alternate definition?
                            > > An anachronism? Or just plain wrong?
                            > >
                            > > -Alana
                            >
                            > Alana:
                            >
                            > The pair, "here, there" had a matching pair, "hence, thence" which can
                            > be simply defined, "from here, from there".
                            >
                            > "Hence", in the sense of "from here", is often used metaphorically. That
                            > is to say, "having reached 'where we are', FROM HERE we may proceed".
                            > Hence, your usage is correct.
                            >
                            > Darrell
                            >
                          • lynnmaudlin
                            ESPECIALLY in English, of all things! English, that grand snowball rolling downhill of a language, gathering pebbles and branches and slow animals in its
                            Message 13 of 21 , Apr 28, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment
                              ESPECIALLY in English, of all things! English, that grand snowball rolling downhill of a language, gathering pebbles and branches and slow animals in its path...! ;)

                              -- Lynn --


                              --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Swain" <theswain@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 12:20 -0700, "John Rateliff"
                              > <sacnoth@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > >>One further thought I find it amusing is that some grammarians
                              > try to 'correct' people who say "from whence", arguing that the
                              > proper usage is just "whence". They fail to take into account
                              > that "whence" has pretty much dropped out of spoken English,
                              > except in the literary tag ("from whence you came") David
                              > mentions. So their 'correction' would, if adopted, mean the
                              > word's disappearance from usage altogether.<<
                              >
                              > Even more amusing is that "from whence" is attested in major writers
                              > from the 14th century onward, including in Langland, Malory,
                              > Shakespeare, the King James, Dryden, Dickens, Robert Stevenson, etc.
                              > There are also uses such as "of whence" and "whence-from." I think it
                              > difficult for hyper-correcting grammarians to maintain that Shakespeare
                              > and Dickens and co. got it wrong. About the only thing that can be said
                              > is that it is *redundant* to say "from whence" or "of whence", but then
                              > language is full of useful, perfectly grammatical redundancies. So I'm
                              > amused by grammarians who correct a perfectly grammatical and
                              > well-attested usage.
                              >
                              > Larry Swain
                              >
                              > --
                              > http://www.fastmail.fm - Accessible with your email software
                              > or over the web
                              >
                            • Darrell A. Martin
                              ... Lynn: It is said that English does not borrow from other languages. It waits for them to go into dark alleys, beats them up, and takes whatever it wants.
                              Message 14 of 21 , Apr 28, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                On 4/29/2011 12:48 AM, lynnmaudlin wrote:
                                > ESPECIALLY in English, of all things! English, that grand snowball rolling downhill of a language, gathering pebbles and branches and slow animals in its path...! ;)
                                >
                                > -- Lynn --

                                Lynn:

                                It is said that English does not borrow from other languages. It waits
                                for them to go into dark alleys, beats them up, and takes whatever it wants.

                                Darrell
                              • Margaret Dean
                                On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:12 AM, Darrell A. Martin ... The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a
                                Message 15 of 21 , Apr 29, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:12 AM, Darrell A. Martin
                                  <darrellm@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On 4/29/2011 12:48 AM, lynnmaudlin wrote:
                                  > > ESPECIALLY in English, of all things! English, that grand snowball rolling downhill of a language, gathering pebbles and branches and slow animals in its path...! ;)
                                  > >
                                  > > -- Lynn --
                                  >
                                  > Lynn:
                                  >
                                  > It is said that English does not borrow from other languages. It waits
                                  > for them to go into dark alleys, beats them up, and takes whatever it wants.

                                  "The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that
                                  English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow
                                  words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways
                                  to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new
                                  vocabulary."—James D. Nicoll, 1990, in the Usenet group
                                  rec.arts.sf-lovers
                                • Alana Abbott
                                  Margaret, [an off-list response] Yay, the real quote! James Nicoll is a reviewer for *Publishers Weekly* (as am I), so I was thrilled to get the back story of
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Apr 29, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Margaret,

                                    [an off-list response]

                                    Yay, the real quote! James Nicoll is a reviewer for Publishers Weekly (as am I), so I was thrilled to get the back story of his quote on our mailing list a few years ago. :) I'm so glad you posted the whole thing.

                                    -Alana

                                    On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Margaret Dean <margdean56@...> wrote:
                                    On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:12 AM, Darrell A. Martin
                                    <darrellm@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > On 4/29/2011 12:48 AM, lynnmaudlin wrote:
                                    > > ESPECIALLY in English, of all things! English, that grand snowball rolling downhill of a language, gathering pebbles and branches and slow animals in its path...! ;)
                                    > >
                                    > > -- Lynn --
                                    >
                                    > Lynn:
                                    >
                                    > It is said that English does not borrow from other languages. It waits
                                    > for them to go into dark alleys, beats them up, and takes whatever it wants.

                                    "The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that
                                    English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow
                                    words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways
                                    to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new
                                    vocabulary."—James D. Nicoll, 1990, in the Usenet group
                                    rec.arts.sf-lovers


                                    ------------------------------------

                                    The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.orgYahoo! Groups Links

                                    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mythsoc/

                                    <*> Your email settings:
                                       Individual Email | Traditional

                                    <*> To change settings online go to:
                                       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mythsoc/join
                                       (Yahoo! ID required)

                                    <*> To change settings via email:
                                       mythsoc-digest@yahoogroups.com
                                       mythsoc-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                                    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                       mythsoc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                       http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




                                    --
                                    Alana Joli Abbott, Freelance Writer and Editor (http://www.virgilandbeatrice.com)
                                    Author of Into the Reach and Departure, available at http://tinyurl.com/aja-ebooks
                                    Columnist, "The Town with Five Main Streets," http://branford.patch.com/columns/the-town-with-five-main-streets
                                    Contributor to Origins Award winner, Serenity Adventures: http://tinyurl.com/serenity-adventures
                                    --
                                    For updates on my writings, join my mailing list at http://groups.google.com/group/alanajoliabbottfans

                                  • Alana Abbott
                                    Ha! Or an on-list response when I hit the wrong button. -Alana ... -- Alana Joli Abbott, Freelance Writer and Editor ( http://www.virgilandbeatrice.com) Author
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Apr 29, 2011
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Ha! Or an on-list response when I hit the wrong button.

                                      -Alana

                                      On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 10:52 PM, Alana Abbott <alanajoli@...> wrote:
                                      Margaret,

                                      [an off-list response]

                                      Yay, the real quote! James Nicoll is a reviewer for Publishers Weekly (as am I), so I was thrilled to get the back story of his quote on our mailing list a few years ago. :) I'm so glad you posted the whole thing.

                                      -Alana

                                      On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Margaret Dean <margdean56@...> wrote:
                                      On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:12 AM, Darrell A. Martin
                                      <darrellm@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On 4/29/2011 12:48 AM, lynnmaudlin wrote:
                                      > > ESPECIALLY in English, of all things! English, that grand snowball rolling downhill of a language, gathering pebbles and branches and slow animals in its path...! ;)
                                      > >
                                      > > -- Lynn --
                                      >
                                      > Lynn:
                                      >
                                      > It is said that English does not borrow from other languages. It waits
                                      > for them to go into dark alleys, beats them up, and takes whatever it wants.

                                      "The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that
                                      English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow
                                      words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways
                                      to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new
                                      vocabulary."—James D. Nicoll, 1990, in the Usenet group
                                      rec.arts.sf-lovers


                                      ------------------------------------

                                      The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.orgYahoo! Groups Links

                                      <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                         http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mythsoc/

                                      <*> Your email settings:
                                         Individual Email | Traditional

                                      <*> To change settings online go to:
                                         http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mythsoc/join
                                         (Yahoo! ID required)

                                      <*> To change settings via email:
                                         mythsoc-digest@yahoogroups.com
                                         mythsoc-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                                      <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                         mythsoc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                      <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                         http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




                                      --
                                      Alana Joli Abbott, Freelance Writer and Editor (http://www.virgilandbeatrice.com)
                                      Author of Into the Reach and Departure, available at http://tinyurl.com/aja-ebooks
                                      Columnist, "The Town with Five Main Streets," http://branford.patch.com/columns/the-town-with-five-main-streets
                                      Contributor to Origins Award winner, Serenity Adventures: http://tinyurl.com/serenity-adventures
                                      --
                                      For updates on my writings, join my mailing list at http://groups.google.com/group/alanajoliabbottfans




                                      --
                                      Alana Joli Abbott, Freelance Writer and Editor (http://www.virgilandbeatrice.com)
                                      Author of Into the Reach and Departure, available at http://tinyurl.com/aja-ebooks
                                      Columnist, "The Town with Five Main Streets," http://branford.patch.com/columns/the-town-with-five-main-streets
                                      Contributor to Origins Award winner, Serenity Adventures: http://tinyurl.com/serenity-adventures
                                      --
                                      For updates on my writings, join my mailing list at http://groups.google.com/group/alanajoliabbottfans

                                    • lynnmaudlin
                                      I prefer the snowball analogy; my mother tongue would never beat up a defenseless little language in a dark alley!!! ;) -- Lynn --
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Apr 29, 2011
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        I prefer the snowball analogy; my mother tongue would never beat up a defenseless little language in a dark alley!!! ;)

                                        -- Lynn --


                                        --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Darrell A. Martin" <darrellm@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > On 4/29/2011 12:48 AM, lynnmaudlin wrote:
                                        > > ESPECIALLY in English, of all things! English, that grand snowball rolling downhill of a language, gathering pebbles and branches and slow animals in its path...! ;)
                                        > >
                                        > > -- Lynn --
                                        >
                                        > Lynn:
                                        >
                                        > It is said that English does not borrow from other languages. It waits
                                        > for them to go into dark alleys, beats them up, and takes whatever it wants.
                                        >
                                        > Darrell
                                        >
                                      • lynnmaudlin
                                        Are we defending the purity of English ?? We are not the Académie française, after all--!! We re discussing history and bemoaning the passing of the
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Apr 29, 2011
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Are we defending the "purity of English"?? We are not the Académie française, after all--!! We're discussing history and bemoaning the passing of the intimate singular second person (huh! good thing I'm first person, eh?!). {{grin}}

                                          -- Lynn --


                                          --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Margaret Dean <margdean56@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:12 AM, Darrell A. Martin
                                          > <darrellm@...> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > On 4/29/2011 12:48 AM, lynnmaudlin wrote:
                                          > > > ESPECIALLY in English, of all things! English, that grand snowball rolling downhill of a language, gathering pebbles and branches and slow animals in its path...! ;)
                                          > > >
                                          > > > -- Lynn --
                                          > >
                                          > > Lynn:
                                          > >
                                          > > It is said that English does not borrow from other languages. It waits
                                          > > for them to go into dark alleys, beats them up, and takes whatever it wants.
                                          >
                                          > "The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that
                                          > English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow
                                          > words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways
                                          > to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new
                                          > vocabulary."—James D. Nicoll, 1990, in the Usenet group
                                          > rec.arts.sf-lovers
                                          >
                                        • bernip
                                          James Nicoll also blogs regularly on Live Journal. (His LJ handle is his name.) He writes much of his many cats and too-frequent accidents. He s a very
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Apr 29, 2011
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            James Nicoll also blogs regularly on Live Journal.  (His LJ handle is his name.)  He writes much of his many cats and too-frequent accidents.  He's a very witty writer (and a current Hugo nominee for best fan writer, I believe.)
                                             
                                            Berni
                                             

                                            From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alana Abbott
                                            Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 7:53 PM
                                            To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: language change

                                            Margaret,

                                            [an off-list response]

                                            Yay, the real quote! James Nicoll is a reviewer for Publishers Weekly (as am I), so I was thrilled to get the back story of his quote on our mailing list a few years ago. :) I'm so glad you posted the whole thing.

                                            -Alana

                                            On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Margaret Dean <margdean56@...> wrote:
                                            On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:12 AM, Darrell A. Martin
                                            <darrellm@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > On 4/29/2011 12:48 AM, lynnmaudlin wrote:
                                            > > ESPECIALLY in English, of all things! English, that grand snowball rolling downhill of a language, gathering pebbles and branches and slow animals in its path...! ;)
                                            > >
                                            > > -- Lynn --
                                            >
                                            > Lynn:
                                            >
                                            > It is said that English does not borrow from other languages. It waits
                                            > for them to go into dark alleys, beats them up, and takes whatever it wants.

                                            "The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that
                                            English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow
                                            words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways
                                            to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new
                                            vocabulary."—James D. Nicoll, 1990, in the Usenet group
                                            rec.arts.sf-lovers


                                            ------------------------------------

                                            The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.orgYahoo! Groups Links

                                            <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                               http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mythsoc/

                                            <*> Your email settings:
                                               Individual Email | Traditional

                                            <*> To change settings online go to:
                                               http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mythsoc/join
                                               (Yahoo! ID required)

                                            <*> To change settings via email:
                                               mythsoc-digest@yahoogroups.com
                                               mythsoc-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                                            <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                               mythsoc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                            <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                               http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




                                            --
                                            Alana Joli Abbott, Freelance Writer and Editor (http://www.virgilandbeatrice.com)
                                            Author of Into the Reach and Departure, available at http://tinyurl.com/aja-ebooks
                                            Columnist, "The Town with Five Main Streets," http://branford.patch.com/columns/the-town-with-five-main-streets
                                            Contributor to Origins Award winner, Serenity Adventures: http://tinyurl.com/serenity-adventures
                                            --
                                            For updates on my writings, join my mailing list at http://groups.google.com/group/alanajoliabbottfans

                                          • Darrell A. Martin
                                            ... Yay! indeed: I have heard a paraphrase of this quote in about half a dozen versions, over the years. Hence it is said . I m glad to get the whole thing,
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Apr 29, 2011
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              On 4/29/2011 9:52 PM, Alana Abbott wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Margaret,
                                              >
                                              > Yay, the real quote! James Nicoll is a reviewer for /Publishers
                                              > Weekly/ (as am I), so I was thrilled to get the back story of his quote
                                              > on our mailing list a few years ago. :) I'm so glad you posted the whole
                                              > thing.
                                              >
                                              > -Alana
                                              >
                                              > On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Margaret Dean <margdean56@...
                                              > <mailto:margdean56@...>> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:12 AM, Darrell A. Martin
                                              > <darrellm@... <mailto:darrellm@...>> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > Lynn:
                                              > >
                                              > > It is said that English does not borrow from other languages.
                                              > > It waits for them to go into dark alleys, beats them up,
                                              > > and takes whatever it wants.

                                              >> "The problem with defending the purity of
                                              >> the English language is that English is
                                              >> about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We
                                              >> don't just borrow words; on occasion,
                                              >> English has pursued other languages down
                                              >> alleyways to beat them unconscious and
                                              >> rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
                                              >> —James D. Nicoll, 1990, in the Usenet
                                              >> group rec.arts.sf-lovers

                                              Yay! indeed:

                                              I have heard a paraphrase of this quote in about half a dozen versions,
                                              over the years. Hence "it is said". I'm glad to get the whole thing, and
                                              a source.

                                              Classic Usenet, with no consideration for the feelings of the poor
                                              cribhouse whores even in the period after it switched from the original
                                              clay tablets to papyrus.

                                              Darrell
                                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.