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Re: [mythsoc] Joseph Pearce on Tolkien

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  • Larry Swain
    Let me start by saying this: My comments below are in no way a support of Pearce s reading. I ll make a separate post on that one. Just correcting a few
    Message 1 of 53 , Apr 9, 2011
      Let me start by saying this: My comments below are in no way a
      support of Pearce's reading. I'll make a separate post on that
      one. Just correcting a few things:

      --
      Larry Swain
      [1]theswain@...

      On Sat, 09 Apr 2011 11:26 -0700, "David Bratman"
      <dbratman@...> wrote:


      "Carl F. Hostetter" <[2]Aelfwine@...> wrote:
      >> His clinching proof is that the quest ends on March 25, a
      traditional
      >> calendar
      >> date for the Crucifixion and also the Feast of the
      Annunciation, which
      >> Pearce
      >> says is a more important date in the Church calendar than
      Christmas.
      >> (Berni
      >> assures me this is _not_ the case,
      >
      > Well, that depends on what one means by "important".

      >It's not a Holy Day of Obligation.

      Until the late 19th century it was such a day.


      >> Historically, the date of the Annunciation was also regarded
      as the date
      >> of: the
      >> Crucifixion; the creation of Adam; the Fall of Lucifer; the
      passing of
      >> Israel through
      >> the Red Sea; and the (near) immolation of Isaac, and so the
      date _itself_
      >> is indeed
      >> in this aspect more important than that of Dec. 25.


      Just as importantly, at least in the West due to Augustine, it was not
      only the creation of Adam and Eve, but the date of the Fall.

      The festival in Latin, btw, is called Festum Incarnationis, Festival of
      the Incarnation. Historically, the date is quite important indeed, and
      in comparison to Christmas as to importance, that would greatly depend
      on the period one is speaking of since that has changed and shifted over
      the centuries.

      >>And it'd be perfectly possible for Pearce to make any points he
      wants about
      the importance of March 25th as a date without throwing in this
      stuff about
      the Annunciation being more important than Christmas. In an
      allegory of
      Frodo's trek as the Via Dolorosa, the only relevance of the
      Annunciation is
      its tie to the traditional belief that it was _also_ the date of
      the
      Crucifixion. (Which has to be approached in this roundabout way
      since,
      while the date to celebrate the Annunciation is fixed, the
      Crucifixion is of
      course commemorated as a movable feast and not on a specific
      date.)<<

      Nonetheless, at least since the third century, March 25 was the accepted
      date of the crucifixion. The reason that Good Friday as commemoration
      of the crucifixion is moveable is because of Passover and the lunar
      calendar, calculating the date of Easter in reference to Passover,
      predates the commemoration of March 25 by a couple of centuries.


      Larry Swain

      --
      http://www.fastmail.fm - Does exactly what it says on the tin
    • Darrell A. Martin
      Jason: I think your objection to Pearce, in that he did not mention Tolkien s disavowal of something he (Pearce) stated as a fact, is on target. My own focus
      Message 53 of 53 , Apr 12, 2011
        Jason:

        I think your objection to Pearce, in that he did not mention Tolkien's
        disavowal of something he (Pearce) stated as a fact, is on target. My
        own focus -- which is why I early on changed the Subject line to remove
        Pearce -- was on whether or not Tolkien's disavowal was definitive.

        Darrell
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