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Re: [mythsoc] The Hobbit Movies Language Coach?

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  • Jason Fisher
    Does Peter Jackson have rights to film anything from Unfinished Tales? My impression is that the deal is only for The Hobbit. It would not matter that some of
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 7, 2010
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      Does Peter Jackson have rights to film anything from Unfinished Tales? My impression is that the deal is only for The Hobbit. It would not matter that some of Unfinished Tales pertains to background events relevant to The Hobbit. I guess additional material from The Lord of the Rings might be acceptable to, under the terms of the previous film agreements, but I am not aware that the film rights to Unfinished Tales have ever been sold by the Tolkien Estate. Does anyone else know more?
       
      Best,
      Jason


      From: pengolodh_dk <pedelberg@...>
      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, December 7, 2010 9:58:30 AM
      Subject: [mythsoc] The Hobbit Movies Language Coach?

       

      Does anybody know if Peter Jackson et al. have approached any Tolkien scholars for help with Middle-earth languages for the upcoming Hobbit movies?

      One would imagine that David Salo had been asked. Also, one would imagine that if anybody at all had been asked, they would have to keep silent about it. If anyone knows and has permission to share this information, it would be interesting to know more about.

      Probably we are going to hear Sindarin, Silvan, Khuzdul, and Mannish (and Orcish). But only the imagination sets limit, since any number of scenes from Unfinished Tales and the imagination of Jackson and his co-workers will enter into the movies.

      All the best,
      Peter Edelberg

    • Doug Kane
      There has been some vague reports that among the issues delaying the Hobbit films was some kind of further negotiations with the Tolkien Estate over rights
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 7, 2010
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        There has been some vague reports that among the issues delaying the Hobbit films was some kind of further negotiations with the Tolkien Estate over rights (including, if I remember correctly, a comment quoted directly from Peter Jackson).  Some have speculated that this might involve some kind of limited rights to parts of Unfinished Tales (primarily The Quest of Erebor).  This is, however, pure speculation.  It could be that any such negotiations (if there even were any) were simply negotiations over interpreting the settlement agreement that resolved the lawsuit between the Estate and New Line.  We just don't know.
         
        My own feeling is that while I would have preferred if they had just made a single movie based strictly on The Hobbit without trying to bring in additional White Council/Dol Guldur material, since they are apparently bringing in these additional storylines, I would prefer that they be able to follow what Tolkien said as closely as possible than to make it up themselves.  Jackson and his colleagues have not (in my opinion) been nearly as successful in making up there own stuff as they have been when they have more closely followed Tolkien.
         
        In any event, additional material from The Lord of the Rings definitely is allowable under the agreements that we know of.
         
        Doug

        Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 10:59 AM
        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] The Hobbit Movies Language Coach?

         

        Does Peter Jackson have rights to film anything from Unfinished Tales? My impression is that the deal is only for The Hobbit. It would not matter that some of Unfinished Tales pertains to background events relevant to The Hobbit. I guess additional material from The Lord of the Rings might be acceptable to, under the terms of the previous film agreements, but I am not aware that the film rights to Unfinished Tales have ever been sold by the Tolkien Estate. Does anyone else know more?
         
        Best,
        Jason


        From: pengolodh_dk <pedelberg@...>
        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, December 7, 2010 9:58:30 AM
        Subject: [mythsoc] The Hobbit Movies Language Coach?

         

        Does anybody know if Peter Jackson et al. have approached any Tolkien scholars for help with Middle-earth languages for the upcoming Hobbit movies?

        One would imagine that David Salo had been asked. Also, one would imagine that if anybody at all had been asked, they would have to keep silent about it. If anyone knows and has permission to share this information, it would be interesting to know more about.

        Probably we are going to hear Sindarin, Silvan, Khuzdul, and Mannish (and Orcish). But only the imagination sets limit, since any number of scenes from Unfinished Tales and the imagination of Jackson and his co-workers will enter into the movies.

        All the best,
        Peter Edelberg


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      • David Bratman
        _The Hobbit_ is not _The Lord of the Rings_. Tolkien at one point tried to turn it into _The Lord of the Rings_ (see The 1960 Hobbit in John D. Rateliff s
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 7, 2010
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          _The Hobbit_ is not _The Lord of the Rings_. Tolkien at one point tried to turn it into _The Lord of the Rings_ (see "The 1960 Hobbit" in John D. Rateliff's _The History of The Hobbit_), but quickly realized his mistake and abandoned the effort. "The Quest of Erebor" is a separate work with its own tone, which Tolkien did not publish (rightly, I think), and it would be a mistake to try to mix it into _The Hobbit_. But Jackson has made bigger mistakes than that before now.

          I will just put down my marker now (actually, I've said this before) that the telltale indication that the Hobbit movie has gone down the wrong path will be if Bilbo meets the 10-year-old Estel in Rivendell. That would be the mark of a fanboy approach to the script. And Jackson could do it without recourse to any additional material other than LOTR.

          I very much doubt, too, that we'll hear all the languages in the movie that the original poster suggested. We could have heard a lot of other languages in the LOTR films, too, but IIRC all we got was cod-Sindarin.
        • not_thou
          Estel / Aragorn might be significantly older than 10 in Jackson s _Hobbit_, because of changes made to the chronology in the _Lord of the Rings_ films,
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 8, 2010
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            Estel / Aragorn might be significantly older than 10 in Jackson's _Hobbit_, because of changes made to the chronology in the _Lord of the Rings_ films, primarily the apparent omission of most of the book's 17-year delay between the Long-expected Party and Frodo's departure from the Shire.

            -Merlin


            --- David Bratman <dbratman@...> wrote:
            > I will just put down my marker now (actually, I've said this before) that the telltale indication that the Hobbit movie has gone down the wrong path will be if Bilbo meets the 10-year-old Estel in Rivendell. That would be the mark of a fanboy approach to the script. And Jackson could do it without recourse to any additional material other than LOTR.
          • John Rateliff
            I d say we ll probably get Sindarin for Elvish, possibly a little Khuzdul muttering, and definitely some Orcish. Just a guess, though. I very much doubt
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 8, 2010
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              I'd say we'll probably get Sindarin for Elvish, possibly a little Khuzdul muttering, and definitely some Orcish. Just a guess, though. I very much doubt there'll be any differentiation between the men of Dale or Bree or Lake-Town or the Wood-men.
              --John R.

              On Dec 7, 2010, at 7:58 AM, pengolodh_dk wrote:
              > Does anybody know if Peter Jackson et al. have approached any Tolkien scholars for help with Middle-earth languages for the upcoming Hobbit movies?
              >
              > One would imagine that David Salo had been asked. Also, one would imagine that if anybody at all had been asked, they would have to keep silent about it. If anyone knows and has permission to share this information, it would be interesting to know more about.
              >
              > Probably we are going to hear Sindarin, Silvan, Khuzdul, and Mannish (and Orcish). But only the imagination sets limit, since any number of scenes from Unfinished Tales and the imagination of Jackson and his co-workers will enter into the movies.
              >
              > All the best,
              > Peter Edelberg
            • John Rateliff
              The original agreement would have only covered THE LORD OF THE RINGS and THE HOBBIT. But there is precedent for going beyond that: for example, Iron Crown s
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 8, 2010
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                The original agreement would have only covered THE LORD OF THE RINGS and THE HOBBIT. But there is precedent for going beyond that: for example, Iron Crown's collectable card game (which was essentially a spin-off of the same license) got permission to use the names of the two Blue WIzards from the Istari essay printed in UNFINISHED TALES. But it's a far leap from using two names to lifting major plot-elements from THE QUEST OF EREBOR or THE 1960 HOBBIT.
                   The Appendices, of course, shd be fair game. And I'm rather looking forward any cameo from Young Estel (though I'd be just as happy if they leave that out).
                --JDR

                On Dec 7, 2010, at 10:59 AM, Jason Fisher wrote:
                Does Peter Jackson have rights to film anything from Unfinished Tales? My impression is that the deal is only for The Hobbit. It would not matter that some of Unfinished Tales pertains to background events relevant to The Hobbit. I guess additional material from The Lord of the Ringsmight be acceptable to, under the terms of the previous film agreements, but I am not aware that the film rights to Unfinished Tales have ever been sold by the Tolkien Estate. Does anyone else know more?
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