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Re: Lewis and Gresham

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  • Margaret L. Carter
    Not long ago there was an article in the Baltimore SUN about Bill Gresham s Baltimore connections. It was quite long and detailed, with lots of information
    Message 1 of 5 , May 17 12:43 PM
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      Not long ago there was an article in the Baltimore SUN about Bill
      Gresham's Baltimore connections. It was quite long and detailed, with
      lots of information about his career. The only allusion to Lewis was
      that Gresham's wife left him for C. S. Lewis -- no mention of the fact
      that Gresham essentially drove Joy away with his abuse and infidelity!
      The article identified Joy as his second wife, which I think was an
      error; he wasn't married before her, was he?

      Margaret L. Carter
    • David Bratman
      ... No, it isn t an error. He was married before, and from the info we have, he left his first wife (whose name I don t have) for Joy with some alacrity in
      Message 2 of 5 , May 17 12:51 PM
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        "Margaret L. Carter" <mlcvamp@...> wrote:

        >The article identified Joy as his second wife, which I think was an
        >error; he wasn't married before her, was he?

        No, it isn't an error. He was married before, and from the info we have, he left his first wife (whose name I don't have) for Joy with some alacrity in 1942.

        This is, interestingly, a critical fact in considering the status of Jack and Joy's marriage. The Church's argument was that it could not marry them because Joy was a divorced woman. But if that makes their marriage impossible, then Bill had been a divorced man and therefore his and Joy's marriage was impossible, which left Joy free to marry Jack. So, at any rate, Lewis argued; but my understanding is that the Church wasn't buying it.
      • Mike Foster
        Ah, the merry minuet of Religion & Sex. So of course since Bill wasn t marriage-able, then Joy was never married, QED. Watch me pull a rabbit out of my
        Message 3 of 5 , May 17 2:39 PM
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          Ah, the merry minuet of Religion & Sex.  So of course since Bill wasn't marriage-able, then Joy was never married, QED.  Watch me pull a rabbit out of my mitre.
           
          Interesting: from the earliest days of the Church factions have accused other factions of being naughty and hypercopulative, therefore the new and purer Church of Fillintheblank was the True Church of Jesus. Bought a book on the topic in Kalamazoo Friday.  "Some wanton women" grows out of "To some women at Wantage."
           
          Mike

          Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 2:51 PM
          Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: Lewis and Gresham

           

          "Margaret L. Carter" <mlcvamp@...> wrote:

          >The
          article identified Joy as his second wife, which I think was an
          >error;
          he wasn't married before her, was he?

          No, it isn't an error. He was married before, and from the info we have, he left his first wife (whose name I don't have) for Joy with some alacrity in 1942.

          This is, interestingly, a critical fact in considering the status of Jack and Joy's marriage. The Church's argument was that it could not marry them because Joy was a divorced woman. But if that makes their marriage impossible, then Bill had been a divorced man and therefore his and Joy's marriage was impossible, which left Joy free to marry Jack. So, at any rate, Lewis argued; but my understanding is that the Church wasn't buying it.



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        • Margaret L. Carter
          Message 4 of 5 , May 18 9:18 AM
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            <No, it isn't an error. He was married before, and from the info we
            have, he left
            his first wife (whose name I don't have) for Joy with some alacrity in
            1942.

            This is, interestingly, a critical fact in considering the status of
            Jack and
            Joy's marriage. The Church's argument was that it could not marry them
            because
            Joy was a divorced woman. But if that makes their marriage impossible,
            then Bill
            had been a divorced man and therefore his and Joy's marriage was
            impossible,
            which left Joy free to marry Jack.>

            Fascinating -- thanks. If I'd ever read those details, I'd forgotten.
            I'd thought Lewis's main ground for considering the marriage
            dissolvable was Bill's adultery.

            Interesting that Bill Gresham seemed to have a history of infidelity to
            wives.

            Granted, the ecclesiastical laws relating to annulment and the validity
            / invalidity of marriages can seem a bit odd. My only personal contact
            with such a case was that of my husband's brother, who got an annulment
            of his first marriage in the Catholic Church, in order to be allowed to
            remarry in the Church -- although he and his first wife had two
            children.

            Margaret L. Carter
          • David Bratman
            ... Bill gets it in the neck either way. If he s married to Joy - and he and Joy certainly considered themselves married, and they were legally so - he s
            Message 5 of 5 , May 18 9:49 AM
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              "Margaret L. Carter" <mlcvamp@...> wrote:

              >Fascinating -- thanks. If I'd ever read those details, I'd forgotten.
              >I'd thought Lewis's main ground for considering the marriage
              >dissolvable was Bill's adultery.

              Bill gets it in the neck either way. If he's married to Joy - and he and Joy certainly considered themselves married, and they were legally so - he's unfaithful to her. If he's still married to his first wife, he's doubly unfaithful to her.

              >Interesting that Bill Gresham seemed to have a history of infidelity to
              >wives.

              He wouldn't be the only one, but we don't know much about that here in the rarified world of Inklings studies. (Who was that Phyllis Jones person again?)
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