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Re: [mythsoc] Re: Ace claim that they were the only ones paying royalties dir...

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  • WendellWag@aol.com
    Thanks, Lynn. I knew about the facts you re talking about and the facts discussed in Mike s talk, but what was asked on the message board that I referred to
    Message 1 of 2 , Oct 27, 2009
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      Thanks, Lynn.  I knew about the facts you're talking about and the facts discussed in Mike's talk, but what was asked on the message board that I referred to was a secondary question that's well beyond those facts.  Someone found a 1966 copy of Silverlock (published by Ace) with an advertisement in it for their edition of The Lord of the Rings.  This advertisement by Ace claimed the following:
       
      > Notice: By arrangement with Professor Tolkien, these Ace volumes are
      the only American editions that are
      > paying full royalties directly to the author. They are authentic,
      complete, unrevised, and unabridged.
       
      This is actually true, although it's deceptive.  Ace had made an agreement with Tolkien that they would pay the royalties for The Lord of the Rings directly to him..  The royalties that Ballantine was paying Tolkien went through Houghton-Mifflin and Allen and Unwin.  They also agreed that they would not print any more copies of the book, but they would sell off their remaining stock.  Ace maintained that the book was out of copyright in the U.S. and that they were only paying Tolkien his royalties out of the goodness of their hearts, so they didn't feel any necessity to pay any royalties to the other publishers.
       
      This copy of Silverlock was printed in the short interval between the agreement and the time that the remaining stock was sold off.  The notice above is thus true.  It's the only American edition paying its royalties directly to Tolkien.  It's authentic (what would an unauthentic edition be?  A different book?), complete, unrevised (whereas the Ballantine edition has the revisions that Tolkien specially prepared for them, which made the Ballantine edition actually the better edition), and unabridged.  It's a slick way to make it look like Ace is in the right on the affair.
       
      Wendell Wagner
       
      In a message dated 10/27/2009 8:17:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lynnmaudlin@... writes:
       

      I remember Mike Foster's fascinating paper on the Ace editions presented at Birmingham 2005 *but* I don't remember all the details; as I recall there was some odd work on the British publisher's part regarding American copyrights and trying to bring the books into the country inexpensively under the "x-many copies imported" clause; I think Mike felt the Ace editions forced the legitimate release of LOTR in paperback & did a great deal to popularize Tolkien in America but check with Mike rather than relying on my memory!

      -- Lynn --

      --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups .com, "David Bratman" <dbratman@.. .> wrote:
      >
      > I don't want to post there, nor to be quoted directly, but I can tell you
      > informally that you're on the right track. Ace agreed to pay royalties
      > directly to Tolkien, as opposed to routing them through the hardcover
      > publishers as Ballantine was presumably doing.
      >
      > The fact that you're missing is that Ace did not withdraw their edition from
      > the market immediately on the agreeement, but instead agreed "not to reprint
      > it when it is exhausted." See Letters p. 367, and Reader's Guide, p. 5.
      > This ad obviously dates from the interim period before the Ace edition went
      > out of print.
      >
      > What I hadn't known is that Ace was going around making this unwarrented
      > claim of authorization, on the basis of their misleading statement about the
      > royalties and making out that their peace settlement with Tolkien somehow
      > made their edition authorized.
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: <WendellWag@ ...>
      > To: <mythsoc@yahoogroups .com>
      > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 6:28 AM
      > Subject: [mythsoc] Ace claim that they were the only ones paying royalties
      > directly to Tolkien
      >
      >
      > > Could someone who is an expert on the Ace editions controversy please
      > > look
      > > at the following thread on a message board?:
      > >
      > > _http://boards. straightdope. com/sdmb/ showthread. php?t=536779_
      > > (http://boards. straightdope. com/sdmb/ showthread. php?t=536779)
      > >
      > > Can you answer the question that's asked there? If you don't want to
      > > post
      > > your answer to the question on the message board itself, please tell us
      > > the answer to the question and I will post your answer to the message
      > > board.
      > > (You would have to join the message board to post to it, and I would
      > > understand if you don't want to do that.)
      > >
      > > Wendell Wagner
      > >
      >

    • lynnmaudlin
      yeah, I d not seen that notification before - weasel words, imho...
      Message 2 of 2 , Oct 28, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        yeah, I'd not seen that notification before - weasel words, imho...


        --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, WendellWag@... wrote:
        >
        > Thanks, Lynn. I knew about the facts you're talking about and the facts
        > discussed in Mike's talk, but what was asked on the message board that I
        > referred to was a secondary question that's well beyond those facts. Someone
        > found a 1966 copy of Silverlock (published by Ace) with an advertisement in
        > it for their edition of The Lord of the Rings. This advertisement by Ace
        > claimed the following:
        >
        > > Notice: By arrangement with Professor Tolkien, these Ace volumes are the
        > only American editions that are
        > > paying full royalties directly to the author. They are authentic,
        > complete, unrevised, and unabridged.
        >
        > This is actually true, although it's deceptive. Ace had made an agreement
        > with Tolkien that they would pay the royalties for The Lord of the Rings
        > directly to him.. The royalties that Ballantine was paying Tolkien went
        > through Houghton-Mifflin and Allen and Unwin. They also agreed that they
        > would not print any more copies of the book, but they would sell off their
        > remaining stock. Ace maintained that the book was out of copyright in the U.S.
        > and that they were only paying Tolkien his royalties out of the goodness
        > of their hearts, so they didn't feel any necessity to pay any royalties to
        > the other publishers.
        >
        > This copy of Silverlock was printed in the short interval between the
        > agreement and the time that the remaining stock was sold off. The notice above
        > is thus true. It's the only American edition paying its royalties
        > directly to Tolkien. It's authentic (what would an unauthentic edition be? A
        > different book?), complete, unrevised (whereas the Ballantine edition has the
        > revisions that Tolkien specially prepared for them, which made the
        > Ballantine edition actually the better edition), and unabridged. It's a slick way
        > to make it look like Ace is in the right on the affair.
        >
        > Wendell Wagner
        >
        >
        > In a message dated 10/27/2009 8:17:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
        > lynnmaudlin@... writes:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > I remember Mike Foster's fascinating paper on the Ace editions presented at
        > Birmingham 2005 *but* I don't remember all the details; as I recall there
        > was some odd work on the British publisher's part regarding American
        > copyrights and trying to bring the books into the country inexpensively under the
        > "x-many copies imported" clause; I think Mike felt the Ace editions forced
        > the legitimate release of LOTR in paperback & did a great deal to
        > popularize Tolkien in America but check with Mike rather than relying on my memory!
        >
        > -- Lynn --
        >
        > --- In _mythsoc@yahoogroupsmyth_ (mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com) , "David
        > Bratman" <dbratman@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > I don't want to post there, nor to be quoted directly, but I can tell
        > you
        > > informally that you're on the right track. Ace agreed to pay royalties
        > > directly to Tolkien, as opposed to routing them through the hardcover
        > > publishers as Ballantine was presumably doing.
        > >
        > > The fact that you're missing is that Ace did not withdraw their edition
        > from
        > > the market immediately on the agreeement, but instead agreed "not to
        > reprint
        > > it when it is exhausted." See Letters p. 367, and Reader's Guide, p. 5.
        > > This ad obviously dates from the interim period before the Ace edition
        > went
        > > out of print.
        > >
        > > What I hadn't known is that Ace was going around making this unwarrented
        > > claim of authorization, on the basis of their misleading statement about
        > the
        > > royalties and making out that their peace settlement with Tolkien
        > somehow
        > > made their edition authorized.
        > >
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: <WendellWag@Wen>
        > > To: <_mythsoc@yahoogroupsmyth_ (mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com) >
        > > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 6:28 AM
        > > Subject: [mythsoc] Ace claim that they were the only ones paying
        > royalties
        > > directly to Tolkien
        > >
        > >
        > > > Could someone who is an expert on the Ace editions controversy please
        > > > look
        > > > at the following thread on a message board?:
        > > >
        > > > __http://boards.http://boardshttp://bohttp://boarhttp://boards_
        > (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=536779_)
        > > > (_http://boards.http://boardshttp://bohttp://boarhttp://board_
        > (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=536779) )
        > > >
        > > > Can you answer the question that's asked there? If you don't want to
        > > > post
        > > > your answer to the question on the message board itself, please tell us
        > > > the answer to the question and I will post your answer to the message
        > > > board.
        > > > (You would have to join the message board to post to it, and I would
        > > > understand if you don't want to do that.)
        > > >
        > > > Wendell Wagner
        > > >
        > >
        >
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