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Re: [mythsoc] An Old Debate

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  • Carl F. Hostetter
    ... This is also not an accurate description of the debate, as no one was claiming the former -- nor, for that matter, the latter, though the latter is
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 5, 2009
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      On Oct 5, 2009, at 8:09 AM, John Davis wrote:

      > Then it occurred to me that what was being argued about was in fact
      > something more general, namely whether a book is something written
      > by an author and simply received by the reader in a one-way process,
      > or whether it is also the interaction between the book/author and
      > the reader, who thus combine to create something which might be
      > different to what the author had anticipated.

      This is also not an accurate description of the debate, as no one was
      claiming the former -- nor, for that matter, the latter, though the
      latter is obviously true. The real issue as regards this matter of
      reader interaction -- at least, the issue that is of common interest
      in a group discussion -- is whether what the reader sees in / derives
      from a work has anything other than personal, subjective validity. And
      that of course must be argued by that reader, in order to persuade
      participants in the discussion of its broader validity. Simply
      declaring that "my view of this work is valid for me" is neither an
      argument, nor of much interest to those who are not that reader.

      Carl
    • John Davis
      I ll have to disagree with you there, too. I believe, as I said, that all who were considering LotR solely a Catholic work were implicitly claiming the former,
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 5, 2009
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        I'll have to disagree with you there, too. I believe, as I said, that all who were considering LotR solely a Catholic work were implicitly claiming the former, since the Pagan readers' opinion was repeatedly discounted, whilst those who thought it Pagan,Green, etc. implicitly  - and perhaps unconsciously - claiming the latter.
         
        You are right, though, in that the fact of seeing something in a work must, as you say, at least for it to have any broader validity, be justified by the text, and this I made clear in my email ('if reader sees in LotR a Pagan world-view and _the text can support it_').
         
        John
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 2:08 PM
        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] An Old Debate

         


        On Oct 5, 2009, at 8:09 AM, John Davis wrote:

        > Then it occurred to me that what was being argued about was in fact
        > something more general, namely whether a book is something written
        > by an author and simply received by the reader in a one-way process,
        > or whether it is also the interaction between the book/author and
        > the reader, who thus combine to create something which might be
        > different to what the author had anticipated.

        This is also not an accurate description of the debate, as no one was
        claiming the former -- nor, for that matter, the latter, though the
        latter is obviously true. The real issue as regards this matter of
        reader interaction -- at least, the issue that is of common interest
        in a group discussion -- is whether what the reader sees in / derives
        from a work has anything other than personal, subjective validity. And
        that of course must be argued by that reader, in order to persuade
        participants in the discussion of its broader validity. Simply
        declaring that "my view of this work is valid for me" is neither an
        argument, nor of much interest to those who are not that reader.

        Carl

      • not_thou
        ...
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 5, 2009
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          ---"John Davis" <john@...> wrote:
          << A few months ago, there was a debate on this list about whether LotR was a solely Catholic work, or whether it was also, in addition, a Pagan/Neo-Pagan/Green/what-have-you work. Arguments were made on both sides, but neither really convinced the other, and eventually we got distracted, if memory servers, by moral relativity (as one does!). >>


          Posts to this list are archived, so if you wish, you can reread that discussion starting with this message from June by Alana Joli Abbott:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mythsoc/message/20539

          -Merlin
        • Alana Joli Abbott
          Not to start this up again, either, but an item of interest -- my correspondent (the one whom I had told that Tolkien believed the work to be Catholic, whether
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 5, 2009
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            Not to start this up again, either, but an item of interest -- my correspondent (the one whom I had told that Tolkien believed the work to be Catholic, whether or not that was actually the case) did an very interesting analysis of British Catholicism and culture (as an American who has emigrated to Britain) and compared what she sees in the British attitude of the Catholic church to elements in the novels. Her notes were definitely a take I hadn't seen before, and I found them quite interesting. I'd be happy to paraphrase off list to people who were interested (with the note that my correspondent is not a fan of the novels, finding them far too pagan for her taste, as a Catholic herself).

            -Alana

            On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 3:18 PM, not_thou <emptyD@...> wrote:


            Posts to this list are archived, so if you wish, you can reread that discussion starting with this message from June by Alana Joli Abbott:

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mythsoc/message/20539

            -Merlin

            .




            --
            Alana Joli Abbott, Freelance Writer and Editor (http://www.virgilandbeatrice.com)
            Author of "Nomi's Wish" (http://coyotewildmag.com/2008/august/abbott_nomis_wish.html), featured in Coyote Wild Magazine
            Contributor to Origins Award winner, Serenity Adventures: http://tinyurl.com/serenity-adventures
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