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Tolkien and Bletchley Park.

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  • not_thou
    Did Tolkien, sometime after training in March 1939, turn down a WWII cryptography job he was offered by the Foreign Office, as claimed in a recent article at
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 19, 2009
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      Did Tolkien, sometime after training in March 1939, turn down a WWII cryptography job he was offered by the Foreign Office, as claimed in a recent article at the following link?

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/6197169/JRR-Tolkien-trained-as-British-spy.html

      Or did the Foreign Office rather inform him in October 1939 that his services would not be needed, as noted in Letter #35 and repeated in one of Scull & Hammond's Chronology entries for that year?

      -Merlin DeTardo
    • j_beregond
      ... It is claimed by the journalist, but it is not supported by the quoted statements of the GCHQ historian , who only says that Tolkien didn t sign up
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 20, 2009
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        --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "not_thou" <emptyD@...> wrote:
        >
        > Did Tolkien, sometime after training in March 1939, turn down a WWII cryptography job he was offered by the Foreign Office, as claimed in a recent article at the following link?
        >
        > <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/6197169/JRR-Tolkien-trained-as-British-spy.html>

        It is claimed by the journalist, but it is not supported by the
        quoted statements of the "GCHQ historian", who only says that
        Tolkien "didn't sign up" etcetera.

        Note also that someone has apparently concluded that Tolkien was
        keen on joining, based on "the word 'keen' beside his name". In all
        likelihood, that is not a record of Tolkien's interest, but a note
        about how to pronounce the name.

        Chivalrously,

        Beregond
      • Wayne G. Hammond
        ... The latter seems to be the case -- that is, not yet needed -- according to Carpenter s note in _Letters_ (p. 436), presumably based on materials in
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 20, 2009
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          Merlin wrote:

          Did Tolkien, sometime after training in March 1939, turn down a WWII cryptography job he was offered by the Foreign Office, as claimed in a recent article at the following link?

          http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/6197169/JRR-Tolkien-trained-as-British-spy.html

          Or did the Foreign Office rather inform him in October 1939 that his services would not be needed, as noted in Letter #35 and repeated in one of Scull & Hammond's Chronology entries for that year?

          The latter seems to be the case -- that is, not yet needed -- according to Carpenter's note in _Letters_ (p. 436), presumably based on materials in Tolkien's private papers (to which we ourselves did not have access), and this is supported by comments Tolkien made in letters to Allen & Unwin on 15 September and 19 December 1939. For some months after the training course in March that year -- we call it a "training course" in our Chronology (p. 226), Carpenter calls it a "course of instruction", the _Telegraph_ article calls it a "tester", presumably it was all an aptitude test of some sort -- Tolkien assumed that he could be called into service by the Foreign Office at any time. He wrote as much to Philip Unwin on 15 September (we passed over the particular remark in our Chronology summary), to the effect that he had agreed to the job in the spring, was not yet summoned to it, but it was an open obligation -- Britain was now at war -- and once he was engaged with it, he did not know how much time it would allow him to devote to outside work. Then on 19 December he wrote to Stanley Unwin (see _Letters_, p. 44) that he was "uncommandeered still myself, and shall now probably remain so, as there is (as yet) far too much to do here [in the Oxford English School], and I have lost both my chief assistant and his understudy". In the same letter, Tolkien comments on his accident "just before the outbreak of war", on his wife's illness, and that he was now the virtual head of his department, all of which would have been good reasons for the Foreign Office not to call him to work in cryptography at that time -- assuming that he was suited to that work in the first place. His words, at least, give no indication that he turned down a position, but rather that it was a case of what Carpenter says in his note, that Tolkien was informed that "his services would not be required for the present".

          The _Telegraph_ article, which followed on a similar one on the This Is Gloucestershire website a day earlier, is frankly a mess. Even had Tolkien gone to work in cryptography, he would not have been a "spy" as the headline has it. Nor was he necessarily "'earmarked' to crack Nazi codes" -- some of the personnel at Bletchley Park were there as language, not cipher, specialists. Its staff were already, before 1939, reading messages enciphered on Enigmas -- the commercial variety if not the more difficult German army and navy Enigmas. The Royal Navy did not exactly use the secret German traffic "to intercept and destroy Hitler's U-Boats", as doing so would have given away the fact that Enigma was not impenetrable. _The Lord of the Rings_ is not, of course, a trilogy -- and we could go on. We agree with our friend Aelfwine, on the Tolkien Collector's Guide website a few days ago, that the notation "keen" beside Tolkien's name on one of the official papers very likely refers to the pronunciation of Tolkien's surname, as opposed to "kine". Tolkien's connection with this part of the war effort was not "revealed for the first time" in the GCHQ exhibition, since it was mentioned in _Letters_ and our _Companion and Guide_. The GCHQ historian makes the unwarranted assumption that Tolkien "failed to join" because "he wanted to concentrate on his writing career", and the rather silly remark that "perhaps it was because we declared war on Germany and not Mordor"; and then the reporter carries on in the same vein, with statements such as "the director of GCCS, known only as 'Alastair G. Denniston'", as if Alastair Denniston were an unknown figure, when in fact he is well known in the history of British cryptanalysis.

          Wayne and Christina

        • not_thou
          Thanks, Wayne and Christina, for a very thorough answer! Also for pointing to the Tolkien Collector s Guide forum, of which I was unaware. -Merlin
          Message 4 of 5 , Sep 20, 2009
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            Thanks, Wayne and Christina, for a very thorough answer! Also for pointing to the Tolkien Collector's Guide forum, of which I was unaware.

            -Merlin
          • Croft, Janet B.
            Thanks, Wayne and Christina! I thought these reporters were sensationalizing and that there was no real new documentation coming out of that exhibit. The
            Message 5 of 5 , Sep 21, 2009
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              Thanks, Wayne and Christina!  I thought these reporters were sensationalizing and that there was no real new documentation coming out of that exhibit. The story just seemed to grow with every re-telling – I saw the salary Tolkien supposedly turned down jump from 500 pounds in a British paper to 50,000 pounds when it made its way to Australia….

               

              Janet

               

              From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wayne G. Hammond
              Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:12 PM
              To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Tolkien and Bletchley Park.

               

               

              Merlin wrote:

              Did Tolkien, sometime after training in March 1939, turn down a WWII cryptography job he was offered by the Foreign Office, as claimed in a recent article at the following link?

              http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/6197169/JRR-Tolkien-trained-as-British-spy.html

              Or did the Foreign Office rather inform him in October 1939 that his services would not be needed, as noted in Letter #35 and repeated in one of Scull & Hammond's Chronology entries for that year?


              The latter seems to be the case -- that is, not yet needed -- according to Carpenter's note in _Letters_ (p. 436), presumably based on materials in Tolkien's private papers (to which we ourselves did not have access), and this is supported by comments Tolkien made in letters to Allen & Unwin on 15 September and 19 December 1939. For some months after the training course in March that year -- we call it a "training course" in our Chronology (p. 226), Carpenter calls it a "course of instruction", the _Telegraph_ article calls it a "tester", presumably it was all an aptitude test of some sort -- Tolkien assumed that he could be called into service by the Foreign Office at any time. He wrote as much to Philip Unwin on 15 September (we passed over the particular remark in our Chronology summary), to the effect that he had agreed to the job in the spring, was not yet summoned to it, but it was an open obligation -- Britain was now at war -- and once he was engaged with it, he did not know how much time it would allow him to devote to outside work. Then on 19 December he wrote to Stanley Unwin (see _Letters_, p. 44) that he was "uncommandeered still myself, and shall now probably remain so, as there is (as yet) far too much to do here [in the Oxford English School], and I have lost both my chief assistant and his understudy". In the same letter, Tolkien comments on his accident "just before the outbreak of war", on his wife's illness, and that he was now the virtual head of his department, all of which would have been good reasons for the Foreign Office not to call him to work in cryptography at that time -- assuming that he was suited to that work in the first place. His words, at least, give no indication that he turned down a position, but rather that it was a case of what Carpenter says in his note, that Tolkien was informed that "his services would not be required for the present".

              The _Telegraph_ article, which followed on a similar one on the This Is Gloucestershire website a day earlier, is frankly a mess. Even had Tolkien gone to work in cryptography, he would not have been a "spy" as the headline has it. Nor was he necessarily "'earmarked' to crack Nazi codes" -- some of the personnel at Bletchley Park were there as language, not cipher, specialists. Its staff were already, before 1939, reading messages enciphered on Enigmas -- the commercial variety if not the more difficult German army and navy Enigmas. The Royal Navy did not exactly use the secret German traffic "to intercept and destroy Hitler's U-Boats", as doing so would have given away the fact that Enigma was not impenetrable. _The Lord of the Rings_ is not, of course, a trilogy -- and we could go on. We agree with our friend Aelfwine, on the Tolkien Collector's Guide website a few days ago, that the notation "keen" beside Tolkien's name on one of the official papers very likely refers to the pronunciation of Tolkien's surname, as opposed to "kine". Tolkien's connection with this part of the war effort was not "revealed for the first time" in the GCHQ exhibition, since it was mentioned in _Letters_ and our _Companion and Guide_. The GCHQ historian makes the unwarranted assumption that Tolkien "failed to join" because "he wanted to concentrate on his writing career", and the rather silly remark that "perhaps it was because we declared war on Germany and not Mordor"; and then the reporter carries on in the same vein, with statements such as "the director of GCCS, known only as 'Alastair G. Denniston'", as if Alastair Denniston were an unknown figure, when in fact he is well known in the history of British cryptanalysis.

              Wayne and Christina

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