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Re: Attention seeking vocabularies

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  • lynnmaudlin
    There was a period of time where affected names were the rage, mostly in SF as I recall: lots of punctuation, no phonic sense... made me nuts, I d take to
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 25 1:22 AM
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      There was a period of time where affected names were the rage, mostly in SF as I recall: lots of punctuation, no phonic sense... made me nuts, I'd take to thinking of characters as "double appostrophe" or "P hyphen" or other uneuphonious mnemonics...

      -- Lynn --


      --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Emerson <emerdavid@...> wrote:
      >
      > >... Pat Wynne's cartoon about [Stephen] Donaldson (I still
      > >have the original framed on my wall) - about Donaldson's (pregnant) mother
      > >being frightened by a "thesaurus" (drawn as a dragon-like critter). Heh.
      > >Now THERE was a vocabulary that was "showing off"!
      >
      > As a counter-example, I suggest Gene Wolfe's "Shadow of the Torturer" et al., where obscure vocabulary is used for a specific effect, i.e. creating the sense of a baroque world, millennia in the future yet somehow archaic at the same time.
      >
      > emerdavid
      >
      > ________________________________________
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    • lynnmaudlin
      I have a friend who likes to read LOTR in French translation: keeps her French in practice & she processes the story differently... I ve never tried that but I
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 25 1:25 AM
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        I have a friend who likes to read LOTR in French translation: keeps her French in practice & she processes the story differently... I've never tried that but I wonder if my reading skill is good enough - there are so many different verb forms in French! *whimper*

        -- Lynn --


        --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Marie-Pierre BODEZ <m.bodez@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > I'm suprised that "glad" should be considered difficult by a person whose mother-tongue is not English. I think I learned that word during the first year of my English lessons.
        > I haven't found the reading of the book in the original language difficult, except some descriptions (names of plants etc.). But Lost Tales was quite a different thing...
        > Marie (whose mother-tongue is French)
        >
        >
        >
        > > > >
        > > --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, John D Rateliff > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Thanks, Sue. I'm glad you like the piece. The more I study Tolkien,
        > > > the more convinced I become that small details matter, and the more
        > > > impressed I am by the sheer amount of work involved in his creating
        > > > and perfecting his books (a characteristic I think his son Christopher
        > > > shares).
        > > >
        > > > As for the matter of language difficulty in Tolkien, I recommend Brian
        > > > Rosebury's TOLKIEN: A CRITICAL ASSESSMENT [1992], which does a good
        > > > job of refuting the claims that Tolkien wrote mostly in archaic
        > > > language and syntax. In fact, as Rosebury points out, most of THE LORD
        > > > OF THE RINGS is in good, straightforward modern English, with
        > > > heightened vocabulary or sentence structures generally reserved for
        > > > emphasis at particular points. I like your complementary point that
        > > > often moments of great dramatic tension are presented very simply;
        > > > I'll be on the look-out for this next time I re-read LotR.
        > > >
        > > > But of course it's true that Tolkien has a large vocabulary, and there
        > > > will always be some readers for whom this will be a problem.
        > > >
        > > > --John R.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > On Aug 13, 2009, at 3:18 AM, Sue Bridgwater wrote:
        > > > > Belated but nonetheless sincere congratulations to Edith on her
        > > > > nomination - rooting for you!
        > > > >
        > > > > Congrats also to John D. Rateliff for his article in TS6, 2009 - A
        > > > > kind of Elvish craft; Tolkien as literary craftsman. It is so good
        > > > > to see this excellent opening up of the matter of the how of
        > > > > writing. Tolkien was a literary craftsman par excellence.
        > > > > One thing that often comes up on the Plaza when new (very) young
        > > > > folk join, is that having seen the films, they try to read LOTR and,
        > > > > particularly if they have not a great habit of reading, they find
        > > > > the language difficult. I do understand this, and we older hands do
        > > > > our best to nurture and encourage. One thread I started in this
        > > > > connection was to encourage people to seek out passages in which
        > > > > Tolkien had deliberately woven the text out of simple vocabulary,
        > > > > and it turned out to be often at moments of deepest significance,
        > > > > e.g on the slopes of Mt. Doom: I am glad that you are with me, here
        > > > > at the end of all things, Sam. An entire sentence of monosyllables,
        > > > > at just the right time. The mood and cadence are perfect. Only one
        > > > > person, whose mother-tongue was not English, said that glad was an
        > > > > unfamiliar word to him. Otherwise all agreed that you could not
        > > > > call this difficult!
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Jason Fisher
        ... I do the same with my Italian copies, and I ve read pieces of the French translations too. It s very good practice, and you do notice different things. I
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 25 7:25 AM
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          > I have a friend who likes to read LOTR in French translation:
          > keeps her French in practice & she processes the story differently...

          I do the same with my Italian copies, and I've read pieces of the French translations too. It's very good practice, and you do notice different things. I have a friend who likes to read the French while his high school students are doing busy-work. One of his students once asked, "Wow, so you know French well enough to read The Lord of the Rings in it?!" To which my friend replied, "Not really; it's the reverse: I know The Lord of the Rings well enough to manage with the French!"

          Jase
        • scribbler@scribblerworks.us
          All this talk of reading Tolkien in other languages to practice the language is getting at me! I may give it a try, even though my French is very, very rusty.
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 25 10:51 AM
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            All this talk of reading Tolkien in other languages to practice the
            language is getting at me! I may give it a try, even though my French is
            very, very rusty. Maybe I'll do THE HOBBIT instead of the whole of LOTR.

            Hmmm.... anyone know if someone has translated THE HOBBIT into Latin? :D



            >> I have a friend who likes to read LOTR in French translation:
            >> keeps her French in practice & she processes the story differently...
            >
            > I do the same with my Italian copies, and I've read pieces of the French
            > translations too. It's very good practice, and you do notice different
            > things. I have a friend who likes to read the French while his high school
            > students are doing busy-work. One of his students once asked, "Wow, so you
            > know French well enough to read The Lord of the Rings in it?!" To which my
            > friend replied, "Not really; it's the reverse: I know The Lord of the
            > Rings well enough to manage with the French!"
            >
            > Jase
            >
          • Marie-Pierre BODEZ
            Try LOTR in French, it s great (I m afraid there is no Latin translation) ! My dream is to be able to read LOTR in Icelandic ! Tolkien has said that it was the
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 25 1:03 PM
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              Try LOTR in French, it's great (I'm afraid there is no Latin translation) !
              My dream is to be able to read LOTR in Icelandic ! Tolkien has said that it was the best language to translate it, hasn't he ?
              one day... perhaps... but it's so hard !
              Marie




              > Message du 25/08/09 19:52
              > De : scribbler@...
              > A : mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              > Copie à :
              > Objet : [mythsoc] Reading translations for practice.
              >
              > > All this talk of reading Tolkien in other languages to practice the
              > language is getting at me! I may give it a try, even though my French is
              > very, very rusty. Maybe I'll do THE HOBBIT instead of the whole of LOTR.
              >
              > Hmmm.... anyone know if someone has translated THE HOBBIT into Latin? :D
              >
              > >> I have a friend who likes to read LOTR in French translation:
              > >> keeps her French in practice & she processes the story differently...
              > >
              > > I do the same with my Italian copies, and I've read pieces of the French
              > > translations too. It's very good practice, and you do notice different
              > > things. I have a friend who likes to read the French while his high school
              > > students are doing busy-work. One of his students once asked, "Wow, so you
              > > know French well enough to read The Lord of the Rings in it?!" To which my
              > > friend replied, "Not really; it's the reverse: I know The Lord of the
              > > Rings well enough to manage with the French!"
              > >
              > > Jase
              > >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • David Emerson
              ... Don t know about that, but you could start out with WINNIE ILLE PU, which I read in high school for extra credit in 4th-year Latin. emerdavid
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 25 2:21 PM
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                -----Original Message-----
                >From: scribbler@...
                >
                >Hmmm.... anyone know if someone has translated THE HOBBIT into Latin? :D

                Don't know about that, but you could start out with WINNIE ILLE PU, which I read in high school for extra credit in 4th-year Latin.

                emerdavid

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                A better way to Internet
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              • scribbler@scribblerworks.us
                Oooo! Winnie! I did not know. I do have THE CAT IN THE HAT in Latin, though. A friend gave it to me for Christmas. She understands my Geekitude.
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 25 6:37 PM
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                  Oooo! Winnie! I did not know.

                  I do have THE CAT IN THE HAT in Latin, though. A friend gave it to me for
                  Christmas. She understands my Geekitude.


                  > -----Original Message-----
                  >>From: scribbler@...
                  >>
                  >>Hmmm.... anyone know if someone has translated THE HOBBIT into Latin? :D
                  >
                  > Don't know about that, but you could start out with WINNIE ILLE PU, which
                  > I read in high school for extra credit in 4th-year Latin.
                  >
                  > emerdavid
                  >
                  > ________________________________________
                  > PeoplePC Online
                  > A better way to Internet
                  > http://www.peoplepc.com
                  >
                • Croft, Janet B.
                  And then there s Alicia in Terra Mirabilis... Janet Brennan Croft From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 26 6:48 AM
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                    And then there's Alicia in Terra Mirabilis...

                    Janet Brennan Croft

                    From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of scribbler@...
                    Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:38 PM
                    To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Reading translations for practice.



                    Oooo! Winnie! I did not know.

                    I do have THE CAT IN THE HAT in Latin, though. A friend gave it to me for
                    Christmas. She understands my Geekitude.

                    > -----Original Message-----
                    >>From: scribbler@...<mailto:scribbler%40scribblerworks.us>
                    >>
                    >>Hmmm.... anyone know if someone has translated THE HOBBIT into Latin? :D
                    >
                    > Don't know about that, but you could start out with WINNIE ILLE PU, which
                    > I read in high school for extra credit in 4th-year Latin.
                    >
                    > emerdavid
                    >
                    > ________________________________________
                    > PeoplePC Online
                    > A better way to Internet
                    > http://www.peoplepc.com
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • alexeik@aol.com
                    ... From: Jason Fisher To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Aug 25, 2009 10:25 am Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Congratulations x 2 ... I
                    Message 9 of 24 , Aug 26 10:23 AM
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                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Jason Fisher <visualweasel@...>
                      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tue, Aug 25, 2009 10:25 am
                      Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Congratulations x 2

                      > I have a friend who likes to read LOTR in French translation:
                      > keeps her French in practice & she processes the story differently...

                      I do the same with my Italian copies, and I've read pieces of the
                      French translations too. It's very good practice, and you do notice
                      different things. I have a friend who likes to read the French while
                      his high school students are doing busy-work. One of his students once
                      asked, "Wow, so you know French well enough to read The Lord of the
                      Rings in it?!" To which my friend replied, "Not really; it's the
                      reverse: I know The Lord of the Rings well enough to manage with the
                      French!"
                      <<

                      I've done that with the Bible for years -- given that not only do I
                      know the content pretty well, but it's the one book that's been
                      translated in many of the languages I study.
                      Alexei
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