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RE: [mythsoc] Tolkien experts on the Jackson films (was "Congrats and phrasing")

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  • David Emerson
    ... Images of security guards at the entrances of Mythcon events saying to each person entering, Your credentials please? emerdavid
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 16, 2009
      >(of course, we could
      >have another whole discussion as to exactly what constituted a 'credentialed
      >Tolkien expert').

      Images of security guards at the entrances of Mythcon events saying to each person entering, "Your credentials please?"

      emerdavid

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    • bernip
      It s a good thing they don t or they d never let people like me in! Berni ... From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 16, 2009
        It's a good thing they don't or they'd never let people like me in!

        Berni

        -----Original Message-----
        From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        David Emerson


        >(of course, we could
        >have another whole discussion as to exactly what constituted a
        >'credentialed Tolkien expert').

        Images of security guards at the entrances of Mythcon events saying to each
        person entering, "Your credentials please?"

        emerdavid
      • scribbler@scribblerworks.us
        LOL David! And of course, that would defeat one of the special things about Mythcon - letting new, young, rising scholars try out their wings! I would hate to
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 16, 2009
          LOL David!

          And of course, that would defeat one of the special things about Mythcon -
          letting new, young, rising scholars try out their wings! I would hate to
          see that, since it's one of the things I really like about Mythcon: to
          have the true experts presenting their latest insights right next to
          someone just starting out and presenting because they've come to love
          something.

          But it would indeed be interesting to know who made the claim that
          "credentialed Tolkien experts" approved the films and who those experts
          were (and what they actually said -- because I'm betting at most they were
          things like "Not really true to the books, but an okay movie").


          >>(of course, we could
          >>have another whole discussion as to exactly what constituted a
          >> 'credentialed
          >>Tolkien expert').
          >
          > Images of security guards at the entrances of Mythcon events saying to
          > each person entering, "Your credentials please?"
          >
          > emerdavid
          >
          > ________________________________________
          > PeoplePC Online
          > A better way to Internet
          > http://www.peoplepc.com
          >
        • Grace Monk
          You are not the only one, David. Certainly not. I see pictures in my brain; it is with effort that I ignore them or eradicate them. Even something as basically
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 16, 2009
            You are not the only one, David. Certainly not. I see pictures in my
            brain; it is with effort that I ignore them or eradicate them. Even
            something as basically innocuous as the film of "The Deep End of the
            Ocean" means I see those actors now when I think of the book. I have
            now given myself permission to refuse to see films based on books I
            love. I saw Jackson's orc show, which I hated and continue to hate
            with the burning fury of a thousand white hot suns, out of a sense of
            intellectual necessity. (If I intend to argue something, I must know
            exactly what I'm arguing about.) But that's it. No Narnia for me, no
            Jane Austen, no future Hobbit projects, nothing that takes something I
            adored in a book and makes it into a film -- I am free to ignore them.

            Incidently, my whiplash experience was at about age 10, when I saw the
            Gene Wilder-starring version of "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory." I
            was enraged and thought that surely such hacksawing of a story HAD to
            be against the law. Sadly, it isn't. But come the revolution...

            Grace Monk

            On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 10:01 AM, David Bratman<dbratman@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Sue Bridgwater <suebridgwater@...> wrote:
            >
            >>I will simply agree that of course turning to a book from a film
            >>or tv adaptation can often be the 'reading trigger'.
            >
            > It can. It seems only fair to point out, however, that it can also be the
            > opposite.
            >
            > As a child, I saw the films "Mary Poppins" and "Oliver!" Enthused by both, I
            > sought out the books by Travers and Dickens on which they were based. In
            > each case, the books were so different that I got a case of mental whiplash
            > so severe I've never gotten over it, and have never gotten to like either
            > author. I feel fortunate that I read Jane Austen, for instance, before the
            > 1990s rash of Austen adaptations, which give a quite misleading impression
            > of her tone.
            >
            > Knowing my own likes and dislikes in fantasy, I can say confidently that if
            > I had never read "The Lord of the Rings" and went to see the Jackson films,
            > and was assured by credentialed Tolkien experts that they faithfully
            > captured the spirit of the book - a few Tolkien experts actually maintain
            > this untenable position, falsely claiming that they represent the consensus
            > of Tolkien scholarship which they emphatically do not - I would never have
            > bothered to read the book, because if the book were like the films it would
            > have no appeal to me. And the major literary experience of my life would
            > have been denied me.
            >
            > Critics are free to claim that I am an utterly unique individual and this
            > scenario could never have happened to anybody else. But they don't know
            > that, and we never will know, because if there is anybody like me having
            > that experience, we'll never know it, because they aren't reading Tolkien.
            > And since the argument is on the same lines as the one actually postulated,
            > that I am the only person in the world who can't get a film out of my head
            > when re-reading the book it's based on, it's almost certainly as nonsensical
            > as that one was.
            >
            >
          • Lynn Maudlin
            I m intrigued (and horrified), David, that you can t get a film out of your head when re-reading the source material - *yikes!* -- Lynn --
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 16, 2009
              I'm intrigued (and horrified), David, that you can't get a film out of your head when re-reading the source material - *yikes!*

              -- Lynn --


              --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Bratman <dbratman@...> wrote:
              >
              > Sue Bridgwater <suebridgwater@...> wrote:
              >
              > >I will simply agree that of course turning to a book from a film
              > >or tv adaptation can often be the 'reading trigger'.
              >
              > It can. It seems only fair to point out, however, that it can also be the opposite.
              >
              > As a child, I saw the films "Mary Poppins" and "Oliver!" Enthused by both, I sought out the books by Travers and Dickens on which they were based. In each case, the books were so different that I got a case of mental whiplash so severe I've never gotten over it, and have never gotten to like either author. I feel fortunate that I read Jane Austen, for instance, before the 1990s rash of Austen adaptations, which give a quite misleading impression of her tone.
              >
              > Knowing my own likes and dislikes in fantasy, I can say confidently that if I had never read "The Lord of the Rings" and went to see the Jackson films, and was assured by credentialed Tolkien experts that they faithfully captured the spirit of the book - a few Tolkien experts actually maintain this untenable position, falsely claiming that they represent the consensus of Tolkien scholarship which they emphatically do not - I would never have bothered to read the book, because if the book were like the films it would have no appeal to me. And the major literary experience of my life would have been denied me.
              >
              > Critics are free to claim that I am an utterly unique individual and this scenario could never have happened to anybody else. But they don't know that, and we never will know, because if there is anybody like me having that experience, we'll never know it, because they aren't reading Tolkien. And since the argument is on the same lines as the one actually postulated, that I am the only person in the world who can't get a film out of my head when re-reading the book it's based on, it's almost certainly as nonsensical as that one was.
              >
            • Lynn Maudlin
              HAPPILY Mythcon requires no credentials! Serious scholars and simply enthusiastic fans are ALL welcome... and that s a good thing! -- Lynn --
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 16, 2009
                HAPPILY Mythcon requires no credentials! Serious scholars and simply enthusiastic fans are ALL welcome... and that's a good thing!

                -- Lynn --


                --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Emerson <emerdavid@...> wrote:
                >
                > >(of course, we could
                > >have another whole discussion as to exactly what constituted a 'credentialed
                > >Tolkien expert').
                >
                > Images of security guards at the entrances of Mythcon events saying to each person entering, "Your credentials please?"
                >
                > emerdavid
                >
                > ________________________________________
                > PeoplePC Online
                > A better way to Internet
                > http://www.peoplepc.com
                >
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