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Re: [mythsoc] Harry Potter, an 11 year old view

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  • Ted Sherman
    Well, that might be, but I must quibble: writing isn t in the genes. It s in the work. It does help if one was raised in an environment that cherished reading
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 2, 2000
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      Well, that might be, but I must quibble: writing isn't in the genes. It's in the work. It
      does help if one was raised in an environment that cherished reading (and writing).

      As to the content--it seems to me that the readers begin with a preconception and then
      their reading validated and supported that preconception. In other words, they found what
      they were looking for: moral relativism (ambiguous portrayals of good and evil) and all
      that. Unfortunately, the readers did not allow the author the courtesy to tell her story
      the way she wanted to without trying to force their beliefs on the world the author
      constructed. In other words, they never allowed the author the opportunity to work her
      enchantment (the elvish craft) and produce secondary belief.

      Ted

      Juliet Blosser wrote:

      > On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 02:20:35PM -0500, Ted Sherman wrote:
      > > And we're supposed to believe the writing below is that of an American 11-year old.
      > > I have 21-year olds who don't write half as well in my college (and graduate!)
      > > courses!
      > >
      > > Ted
      > >
      > Given that the boy's mother is a writer, I think we can assume that he
      > both got some writing talent in the genes, and has been taught well at
      > home. Those two things can make all the difference in the world.
      >
      >
      >
      > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org

      --
      Dr. Theodore James Sherman, Editor
      Mythlore: A Journal of J. R. R. Tolkien, C. S. Lewis, Charles Williams and Mythopoeic
      Literature
      Box X041, Department of English
      Middle Tennessee State University
      Murfreesboro, TN 37132
      615 898-5836; FAX 615 898-5098
      tsherman@...
      tedsherman@...
    • David S. Bratman
      I was writing pretty much like that when I was 11. And that s not boasting: I m sure most of us here were. I don t think there s anything wrong with objecting
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 2, 2000
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        I was writing pretty much like that when I was 11. And that's not
        boasting: I'm sure most of us here were.

        I don't think there's anything wrong with objecting to mixed moral
        messages and squeamy situations. The kid has a point. I followed him
        right up until he recommended Redwall. Oh well, nobody's perfect.

        David Bratman
      • Steve Schaper
        ... Musta been home-schooled. Or born on a leap-day ;-) ==================================== sschaper@uswest.net members.delphi.com/sschaper/web/sschaper.html
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 2, 2000
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          At 2:20 PM -0500 8/2/00, Ted Sherman wrote:
          >And we're supposed to believe the writing below is that of an
          >American 11-year old.
          >I have 21-year olds who don't write half as well in my college (and graduate!)
          >courses!
          >
          >Ted


          Musta been home-schooled.

          Or born on a leap-day ;-)

          ====================================

          sschaper@...
          members.delphi.com/sschaper/web/sschaper.html
          ====================================
        • Christine Howlett
          From the vantage point of 40+ years, the mixed messages really did not bother me. The people seemed quite real, as versus cardboard saints. The villains
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 2, 2000
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            From the vantage point of 40+ years, the 'mixed messages' really did not
            bother me. The people seemed quite real, as versus cardboard saints. The
            villains are less mixed - it's hard to find a redeeming trait in most of
            them, though I notice the 4th book has a 'villain' who is simply weak and
            willing to delude himself (that's not a spoiler, is it?). My roommate says
            11 is appropriate to object to mixed good-bad types. I think an 11 year old
            must have met some pretty mixed types already. Like his parents, his
            siblings, his neighbors, his teachers, etc. etc. Humanity being a pretty
            mixed lot. Oh well, different countries heard from.
            Christine

            -----Original Message-----
            From: David S. Bratman <dbratman@...>
            To: mythsoc@egroups.com <mythsoc@egroups.com>
            Date: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 3:48 PM
            Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Harry Potter, an 11 year old view


            >I was writing pretty much like that when I was 11. And that's not
            >boasting: I'm sure most of us here were.
            >
            >I don't think there's anything wrong with objecting to mixed moral
            >messages and squeamy situations. The kid has a point. I followed him
            >right up until he recommended Redwall. Oh well, nobody's perfect.
            >
            >David Bratman
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
            >
          • David S. Bratman
            There s a difference between mixed good/bad people and mixed moral messages. _The Lord of the Rings_, for instance, has the former but not the latter. Good
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 2, 2000
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              There's a difference between mixed good/bad people and mixed moral
              messages. _The Lord of the Rings_, for instance, has the former but not
              the latter. "Good and evil have not changed since yesterday," Aragorn
              says (approx. quote), "nor are they one thing among elves and dwarves and
              another among men."

              I've also seen a lot of fantasies that seem to have mixed moral messages
              but black-and-white characters.

              IMHO, it is more important for authors to show that their characters are
              human, with flaws and less-than-pure desires and impulses, than to show
              their postmodern (or whatever) sensibility by demonstrating that good and
              bad are not absolute. At least for some readers, Tolkien and Lewis are
              demonstrations that you can have absolute black-and-white moral messages
              without rigid situations or cardboard characters.

              David Bratman
            • Mary Kay Kare
              ... You think there are Satanic references in Harry Potter? That s what he said. MKK
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 4, 2000
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                "David S. Bratman" wrote:
                >
                > I was writing pretty much like that when I was 11. And that's not
                > boasting: I'm sure most of us here were.
                >
                > I don't think there's anything wrong with objecting to mixed moral
                > messages and squeamy situations. The kid has a point. I followed him
                > right up until he recommended Redwall. Oh well, nobody's perfect.
                >
                You think there are Satanic references in Harry Potter? That's what
                he said.

                MKK
              • WendellWag@aol.com
                In a message dated 8/4/00 1:10:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kare@sirius.com writes: Yeah, there
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 5, 2000
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                  In a message dated 8/4/00 1:10:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kare@...
                  writes:

                  << You think there are Satanic references in Harry Potter? >>

                  Yeah, there are, but you got to look for them in the same way that people
                  look for messages in rock music. Look at the sixth sentence of the sixth
                  paragraph of the sixth chapter of the first book. (666 - get it?) Reading
                  backward from the end of the sentence and taking every sixth letter, you get
                  "All power to our Lord Satan. Sacrifice our parents on his altar." Using
                  techniques like this on other sections of the Harry Potter books, I've also
                  found "Paul is dead," "Turn me on, dead man," "I buried Paul," "Kilroy was
                  here," "Whazzup?," "Louie, Louie, me gotta go," "Who is Keyser Sose?," and
                  "Toynbee ideas in Kubrick's 2001, resurrect dead on planet Jupiter."

                  Am I the only one who's noticed this?

                  Wendell Wagner
                • Stolzi@aol.com
                  In a message dated 8/5/00 12:07:43 PM Central Daylight Time, ... Why not the sixth book?
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 5, 2000
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                    In a message dated 8/5/00 12:07:43 PM Central Daylight Time,
                    WendellWag@... writes:

                    > Look at the sixth sentence of the sixth
                    > paragraph of the sixth chapter of the first book. (666 - get it?)

                    Why not the sixth book?
                  • WendellWag@aol.com
                    Well, we haven t seen the sixth book yet. Perhaps the *real* meaning will be revealed there.
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 5, 2000
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                      Well, we haven't seen the sixth book yet. Perhaps the *real* meaning will be
                      revealed there.
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