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Re: [mythsoc] Harry Potter, an 11 year old view

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  • Matthew Winslow
    ... The kid has a good editor? -- Matthew Winslow mwinslow@firinn.org http://x-real.firinn.org/ Books are my passion, not only writing them and every once in
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 2, 2000
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      Ted Sherman [tedsherman@...] wrote:
      > And we're supposed to believe the writing below is that of an American 11-year old.
      > I have 21-year olds who don't write half as well in my college (and graduate!)
      > courses!

      The kid has a good editor?

      --
      Matthew Winslow mwinslow@... http://x-real.firinn.org/
      "Books are my passion, not only writing them and every once in a while even
      reading them but just having them and moving them around and feeling the
      comfort of their serene presence."
      --Fred Buechner
      Currently reading: Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
    • Ted Sherman
      Well, that might be, but I must quibble: writing isn t in the genes. It s in the work. It does help if one was raised in an environment that cherished reading
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 2, 2000
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        Well, that might be, but I must quibble: writing isn't in the genes. It's in the work. It
        does help if one was raised in an environment that cherished reading (and writing).

        As to the content--it seems to me that the readers begin with a preconception and then
        their reading validated and supported that preconception. In other words, they found what
        they were looking for: moral relativism (ambiguous portrayals of good and evil) and all
        that. Unfortunately, the readers did not allow the author the courtesy to tell her story
        the way she wanted to without trying to force their beliefs on the world the author
        constructed. In other words, they never allowed the author the opportunity to work her
        enchantment (the elvish craft) and produce secondary belief.

        Ted

        Juliet Blosser wrote:

        > On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 02:20:35PM -0500, Ted Sherman wrote:
        > > And we're supposed to believe the writing below is that of an American 11-year old.
        > > I have 21-year olds who don't write half as well in my college (and graduate!)
        > > courses!
        > >
        > > Ted
        > >
        > Given that the boy's mother is a writer, I think we can assume that he
        > both got some writing talent in the genes, and has been taught well at
        > home. Those two things can make all the difference in the world.
        >
        >
        >
        > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org

        --
        Dr. Theodore James Sherman, Editor
        Mythlore: A Journal of J. R. R. Tolkien, C. S. Lewis, Charles Williams and Mythopoeic
        Literature
        Box X041, Department of English
        Middle Tennessee State University
        Murfreesboro, TN 37132
        615 898-5836; FAX 615 898-5098
        tsherman@...
        tedsherman@...
      • David S. Bratman
        I was writing pretty much like that when I was 11. And that s not boasting: I m sure most of us here were. I don t think there s anything wrong with objecting
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 2, 2000
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          I was writing pretty much like that when I was 11. And that's not
          boasting: I'm sure most of us here were.

          I don't think there's anything wrong with objecting to mixed moral
          messages and squeamy situations. The kid has a point. I followed him
          right up until he recommended Redwall. Oh well, nobody's perfect.

          David Bratman
        • Steve Schaper
          ... Musta been home-schooled. Or born on a leap-day ;-) ==================================== sschaper@uswest.net members.delphi.com/sschaper/web/sschaper.html
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 2, 2000
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            At 2:20 PM -0500 8/2/00, Ted Sherman wrote:
            >And we're supposed to believe the writing below is that of an
            >American 11-year old.
            >I have 21-year olds who don't write half as well in my college (and graduate!)
            >courses!
            >
            >Ted


            Musta been home-schooled.

            Or born on a leap-day ;-)

            ====================================

            sschaper@...
            members.delphi.com/sschaper/web/sschaper.html
            ====================================
          • Christine Howlett
            From the vantage point of 40+ years, the mixed messages really did not bother me. The people seemed quite real, as versus cardboard saints. The villains
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 2, 2000
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              From the vantage point of 40+ years, the 'mixed messages' really did not
              bother me. The people seemed quite real, as versus cardboard saints. The
              villains are less mixed - it's hard to find a redeeming trait in most of
              them, though I notice the 4th book has a 'villain' who is simply weak and
              willing to delude himself (that's not a spoiler, is it?). My roommate says
              11 is appropriate to object to mixed good-bad types. I think an 11 year old
              must have met some pretty mixed types already. Like his parents, his
              siblings, his neighbors, his teachers, etc. etc. Humanity being a pretty
              mixed lot. Oh well, different countries heard from.
              Christine

              -----Original Message-----
              From: David S. Bratman <dbratman@...>
              To: mythsoc@egroups.com <mythsoc@egroups.com>
              Date: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 3:48 PM
              Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Harry Potter, an 11 year old view


              >I was writing pretty much like that when I was 11. And that's not
              >boasting: I'm sure most of us here were.
              >
              >I don't think there's anything wrong with objecting to mixed moral
              >messages and squeamy situations. The kid has a point. I followed him
              >right up until he recommended Redwall. Oh well, nobody's perfect.
              >
              >David Bratman
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
              >
            • David S. Bratman
              There s a difference between mixed good/bad people and mixed moral messages. _The Lord of the Rings_, for instance, has the former but not the latter. Good
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 2, 2000
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                There's a difference between mixed good/bad people and mixed moral
                messages. _The Lord of the Rings_, for instance, has the former but not
                the latter. "Good and evil have not changed since yesterday," Aragorn
                says (approx. quote), "nor are they one thing among elves and dwarves and
                another among men."

                I've also seen a lot of fantasies that seem to have mixed moral messages
                but black-and-white characters.

                IMHO, it is more important for authors to show that their characters are
                human, with flaws and less-than-pure desires and impulses, than to show
                their postmodern (or whatever) sensibility by demonstrating that good and
                bad are not absolute. At least for some readers, Tolkien and Lewis are
                demonstrations that you can have absolute black-and-white moral messages
                without rigid situations or cardboard characters.

                David Bratman
              • Mary Kay Kare
                ... You think there are Satanic references in Harry Potter? That s what he said. MKK
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 4, 2000
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                  "David S. Bratman" wrote:
                  >
                  > I was writing pretty much like that when I was 11. And that's not
                  > boasting: I'm sure most of us here were.
                  >
                  > I don't think there's anything wrong with objecting to mixed moral
                  > messages and squeamy situations. The kid has a point. I followed him
                  > right up until he recommended Redwall. Oh well, nobody's perfect.
                  >
                  You think there are Satanic references in Harry Potter? That's what
                  he said.

                  MKK
                • WendellWag@aol.com
                  In a message dated 8/4/00 1:10:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kare@sirius.com writes: Yeah, there
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 5, 2000
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                    In a message dated 8/4/00 1:10:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kare@...
                    writes:

                    << You think there are Satanic references in Harry Potter? >>

                    Yeah, there are, but you got to look for them in the same way that people
                    look for messages in rock music. Look at the sixth sentence of the sixth
                    paragraph of the sixth chapter of the first book. (666 - get it?) Reading
                    backward from the end of the sentence and taking every sixth letter, you get
                    "All power to our Lord Satan. Sacrifice our parents on his altar." Using
                    techniques like this on other sections of the Harry Potter books, I've also
                    found "Paul is dead," "Turn me on, dead man," "I buried Paul," "Kilroy was
                    here," "Whazzup?," "Louie, Louie, me gotta go," "Who is Keyser Sose?," and
                    "Toynbee ideas in Kubrick's 2001, resurrect dead on planet Jupiter."

                    Am I the only one who's noticed this?

                    Wendell Wagner
                  • Stolzi@aol.com
                    In a message dated 8/5/00 12:07:43 PM Central Daylight Time, ... Why not the sixth book?
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 5, 2000
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                      In a message dated 8/5/00 12:07:43 PM Central Daylight Time,
                      WendellWag@... writes:

                      > Look at the sixth sentence of the sixth
                      > paragraph of the sixth chapter of the first book. (666 - get it?)

                      Why not the sixth book?
                    • WendellWag@aol.com
                      Well, we haven t seen the sixth book yet. Perhaps the *real* meaning will be revealed there.
                      Message 10 of 12 , Aug 5, 2000
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                        Well, we haven't seen the sixth book yet. Perhaps the *real* meaning will be
                        revealed there.
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