Re: [mythsoc] Re: Catholicism and Lord of the Rings
- On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:10 AM, Vincent Ferré wrote:
> yes, but do we have to believe writers's statements about their ownNo; but I think we should unless we have a compelling reason not to do
> work ?
so. Do you have such a reason?
Personally, I can see plenty of support for Tolkien's statement: the
figure of Elbereth ("Star-queen"), the "dormition" of Aragorn and
Arwen, the Eagle's _Laetare_, the date of the Downfall, etc., etc., etc.
> "The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and
> Catholic work," wrote Tolkien, "unconsciously so at first, but
> consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have
> cut out, practically all references to anything like "religion", to
> cults or practices, in the Imaginary world. For the religious
> element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism."
- Luthien: Alas! My beloved has perished! I must go to the Halls of Mandos to beg --
Beren: I'm not dead yet.
Luthien: Shh! To beg Mandos to bring him back --
Beren: I don't want to go on the cart.
Luthien: Shut up! I'm having a dramatic moment here.
Beren: I feel happy...
Luthien: (Nods to nearest elf with big club)
Big Club: Thud.
Luthien: Okay, I'm off to the Halls of Mandos. See ya. (Falls down)
>From: John Davis <john@...>________________________________________
>Sent: Jun 15, 2009 3:48 AM
>Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: Catholicism and Lord of the Rings
>Perhaps he was just mostly dead.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: scribbler@...
> To: firstname.lastname@example.org
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 4:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: Catholicism and Lord of the Rings
> > I've always wondered -- was Beren really dead? Or was he merely so close
> > to death that no one around could tell the difference? Was he really
> > resurrected, or simply revived?
> > If the Gift of Men is beyond even the Valar's understanding, it doesn't
> > make sense that Mandos would have the power to give Beren back his life,
> > no matter how persuasively Luthien sang.
> > emerdavid
> Well, it would seem incongruous that Mandos himself would not be able to
> distinguish between a "nearly dead" mortal soul and a "dead" one. Mandos
> is made anxious about the situation because Beren WILL NOT GO ON the way
> he is supposed to.
> It seems to me, that Beren's soul held onto the world to an unexpected
> degree, instead of passing out of the world. If he had passed out of the
> world, then I agree, Luthien's singing would have been tragic in that it
> would be to no point -- Beren would not be *there* to be returned. But
> that's not what Tolkien sets as the situation. He has Beren "hanging
> around" unexpectedly.
> I say - Beren was dead, but not "departed". A unique situation that the
> Valar could actually address.
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