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Interesting item in an article in _The Washington Post_

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  • WendellWag@aol.com
    There s an article in _The Washington Post_ (July 24th, page A7) about George W. Bush s (and his campaign advisors ) attempts to speak to the evangelical
    Message 1 of 19 , Jul 29 8:03 AM
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      There's an article in _The Washington Post_ (July 24th, page A7) about George
      W. Bush's (and his campaign advisors') attempts to speak to the evangelical
      communty. He was introduced by one aide, George Wead, to many evangelic
      leaders. He made attempts to stay in touch with some of them and, among
      other things, "he dug up an old Time magazine cover of author C. S. Lewis,
      the evangelicals' leterary favorite, to send to a Wheaton College professor
      he had met with."

      DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A POLITICAL ARGUMENT.
      DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A POLITICAL ARGUMENT.
      DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A POLITICAL ARGUMENT.

      My question is "How difficult would this be?"

      I've been reading and collecting Lewis for over twenty-five years and I've
      never seen that issue of _Time_ (from August 8, 1947). I checked on E-bay
      and abebooks.com and they don't have any copies. Have any of you seen that
      issue? Do any of you own it? Is there any way that someone could obtain it
      (particularly someone who had not previously been a Lewis collector) except
      by paying a dealer for a extensive (and expensive) search.

      Wendell Wagner
    • David S. Bratman
      ... I ve seen it: reproduced as an illustration in a book or two about Lewis, and live in all its full glory, along with the accompanying article, in a place
      Message 2 of 19 , Jul 29 4:07 PM
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        On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 WendellWag@... wrote:

        > There's an article in _The Washington Post_ (July 24th, page A7) about George
        > W. Bush's (and his campaign advisors') attempts to speak to the evangelical
        > communty. He was introduced by one aide, George Wead, to many evangelic
        > leaders. He made attempts to stay in touch with some of them and, among
        > other things, "he dug up an old Time magazine cover of author C. S. Lewis,
        > the evangelicals' leterary favorite, to send to a Wheaton College professor
        > he had met with."
        >
        > My question is "How difficult would this be?"
        >
        > I've been reading and collecting Lewis for over twenty-five years and I've
        > never seen that issue of _Time_ (from August 8, 1947). I checked on E-bay
        > and abebooks.com and they don't have any copies. Have any of you seen that
        > issue? Do any of you own it? Is there any way that someone could obtain it
        > (particularly someone who had not previously been a Lewis collector) except
        > by paying a dealer for a extensive (and expensive) search.

        I've seen it: reproduced as an illustration in a book or two about Lewis,
        and live in all its full glory, along with the accompanying article, in a
        place called a "library". If you just want to see it, you might check in
        one of those.

        That does not answer your main question, of course, which is how to
        obtain a copy for one's own ... but there are used-magazine dealers still
        out there, and many things can be obtained with sufficient effort and for
        sufficient cash. I trust it will not be considered a political argument
        to point out that Mr. Bush has plenty of the latter and assistants who
        can provide plenty of the former.

        David Bratman
      • WendellWag@aol.com
        Yes, I ve seen it in pictures in books too. My point was that I have never seen it in person, and I suspect that it would be extremely difficult to find a
        Message 3 of 19 , Jul 29 4:17 PM
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          Yes, I've seen it in pictures in books too. My point was that I have never
          seen it in person, and I suspect that it would be extremely difficult to find
          a copy in private hands. In particular, Bush, who (whatever else he might
          be) isn't a Lewis collector, couldn't have casually "dug up" a copy of it.
          He would have had to pay some dealer a lot of money to find a copy of it.

          Wendell
        • David S. Bratman
          I should add that it s not on ABE and it s not on E-bay is emphatically not synonymous with there are no copies available. This fallacy may be related to
          Message 4 of 19 , Jul 29 4:21 PM
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            I should add that "it's not on ABE and it's not on E-bay" is emphatically
            not synonymous with "there are no copies available." This fallacy may be
            related to the one I see in college students all the time, the belief
            that all human knowledge is on the web.

            As a used book collector I also paw around in old magazine shops on
            occasion, and once on checking E-bay out decided to test it by looking up
            old magazine issues for sale. I was dismayed at how little was up there,
            and this combined with a distaste for gambling has probably saved me from
            a life of expensive indulgence on E-bay.

            As for ABE: on entering a used bookstore, and seeing how organized and
            generally fresh-looking it is, I can usually make a good guess as to
            whether its stock is online or not. Virtually every old magazine shop
            I've ever been in looks like the kind of bookstore that is _not_ online.

            Re Bush casually digging up a copy, as opposed to systematically
            searching for it and paying a lot of money, that may be a paraphrase from
            Bush's cover letter. It is customary for gifts of that sort to be given
            in a quiet and self-deprecatory context: "I just happened to dig up"
            rather than "I scoured the earth!" Now, if he were giving it to his
            wife, it would be more politic to say "I scoured the earth!" even if the
            true situation were that he just happened to dig it up. <g>
          • Stolzi@aol.com
            In a message dated 7/29/00 10:06:14 AM Central Daylight Time, ... Is it August? I thought it was September. I turned it up last year and read it with
            Message 5 of 19 , Jul 29 4:42 PM
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              In a message dated 7/29/00 10:06:14 AM Central Daylight Time,
              WendellWag@... writes:

              > (from August 8, 1947).

              Is it August? I thought it was September. I turned it up last year and read
              it with interest in the long, long collection of bound volumes of TIME which
              my library possesses, and made a photocopy for someone (I forget who). There
              must be other libraries which have it. But obviously if one has any
              allegiance to Lewis and his ethics, one does not steal from the public
              library.

              So, basically, I don't have a clue how anyone else would obtain one, to have
              as their own, sorry.

              Mary S
            • WendellWag@aol.com
              In a message dated 7/29/00 7:42:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Stolzi@aol.com writes: Yes, you re right.
              Message 6 of 19 , Jul 29 4:56 PM
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                In a message dated 7/29/00 7:42:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Stolzi@...
                writes:

                << Is it August? I thought it was September. >>

                Yes, you're right.

                Incidentally, I found a soft copy of the article on the web at

                http://www.apologetics.org/articles/cslewis.html

                I wasn't interested in getting it to read it. I was just interested in
                knowing how hard it was to find the real paper version of it. (Do you
                remember paper? It's that old-fashioned stuff we had to use before they
                invented computers.)

                Wendell
              • Stolzi@aol.com
                Perhaps the most likely source would be an early-days Lewis fan who bought the thing back in 1947, or thereafter from a used-book dealer, and kept it
                Message 7 of 19 , Jul 29 5:26 PM
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                  Perhaps the most likely source would be an early-days Lewis fan who bought
                  the thing back in 1947, or thereafter from a used-book dealer, and kept it
                  carefully, then died fairly recently and had his (or her) library go on the
                  market.

                  I noticed that only the cover was mentioned - could imagine some fan (as
                  above) framing the cover separately.

                  Wasn't it one of Artzybasheff's delightful paintings?

                  Mary S
                • LSolarion@aol.com
                  In a message dated 07/29/2000 8:06:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, WendellWag@aol.com writes:
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jul 31 7:13 PM
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                    In a message dated 07/29/2000 8:06:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
                    WendellWag@... writes:

                    << I've been reading and collecting Lewis for over twenty-five years and I've
                    never seen that issue of _Time_ (from August 8, 1947). I checked on E-bay
                    and abebooks.com and they don't have any copies. Have any of you seen that
                    issue? >>

                    In one of my many books about Lewis -- a biography, I think; I'll have to
                    look it up tomorrow -- a picture of the cover is reproduced. They wouldn't
                    need the actual issue, all they'd have to do was enlarge the illustration
                    from the book.

                    Steve
                  • WendellWag@aol.com
                    I don t think that would work. First, it wouldn t reproduce well. Second, it wouldn t be very interesting. I can t imagine anyone thinking that a
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jul 31 7:23 PM
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                      I don't think that would work. First, it wouldn't reproduce well. Second,
                      it wouldn't be very interesting. I can't imagine anyone thinking that a
                      reproduction of the cover would be an important addition to their collection.

                      I've just E-mailed the magazine collectors' service mentioned in Stephen's
                      post and asked them how much the magazine with the Lewis cover would cost.
                      The website says prices start at $17, but some highly desired issues may cost
                      more.

                      Wendell
                    • WendellWag@aol.com
                      The magazine collectors service tells me that the C. S. Lewis cover issue of _Time_ is sold out. Wendell Wagner
                      Message 10 of 19 , Aug 1, 2000
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                        The magazine collectors' service tells me that the C. S. Lewis cover issue of
                        _Time_ is sold out.

                        Wendell Wagner
                      • Trudy Shaw
                        Of course, GWB probably didn t say to an assistant, Find me a copy of the August 8, 1947, TIME. More likely, it was closer to, Find me something old and
                        Message 11 of 19 , Aug 1, 2000
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                          Of course, GWB probably didn't say to an assistant, "Find me a copy of the
                          August 8, 1947, TIME." More likely, it was closer to, "Find me something
                          old and kind of impressive with a picture of C.S. Lewis." That would change
                          the odds quite a bit.

                          -- Trudy Shaw



                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: <WendellWag@...>
                          To: <mythsoc@egroups.com>
                          Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 4:29 AM
                          Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Interesting item in an article in _The Washington
                          Post_


                          > The magazine collectors' service tells me that the C. S. Lewis cover issue
                          of
                          > _Time_ is sold out.
                          >
                          > Wendell Wagner
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                          >
                          >
                        • WendellWag@aol.com
                          My supposition was that Bush said to George Wead (the aide who was mentioned in the news story and who was apparently at the meeting), What can we get this
                          Message 12 of 19 , Aug 1, 2000
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                            My supposition was that Bush said to George Wead (the aide who was mentioned
                            in the news story and who was apparently at the meeting), "What can we get
                            this guy so that he will remember our meeting?" Wead says, "Well, I was
                            taking notes, and he did mention C. S. Lewis . . ." Come to think of it,
                            perhaps the guy even mentioned that he was looking for the C. S. Lewis cover.

                            Wendell
                          • Stolzi@aol.com
                            I looked up the article again today while at the library. It IS September 8, 1947, NOT August. The Artzybasheff painting is really charming. It is in full
                            Message 13 of 19 , Aug 1, 2000
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                              I looked up the article again today while at the library.

                              It IS September 8, 1947, NOT August.

                              The Artzybasheff painting is really charming. It is in full color, with a
                              large grey devil of rather comical cast, a la gargoyle, at the right (Lewis'
                              left) and only part of a more colorful angel (halo, wing, shoulder) showing
                              on the other side. CSL himself looks right-down handsome (but recognizable),
                              and has brown hair, sparkling warm brown eyes, and a brown or perhaps tweed
                              jacket. Coincidentally, the lettercol of the week leads off with high praise
                              for another Artzybasheff cover. I wonder where A's originals went...

                              The article itself is long and thorough and quite good, with only one obvious
                              error which is repeated in a subtitle: referring to a resurrected Lord who
                              ate "boiled fish." Gag! =Broiled=, please. (Luke 24:42) The error is not
                              Lewis', I am sure.
                              And only one TIME-ism that I noted. The magazine was known back then for its
                              "snappy" word coinages (most of them pretty ghastly) and in this article it
                              says that Lewis "has given up radiorating." (radio - orating, blech)

                              Illustrations include "God," by Wm Blake; "Screwtape," by Lewis; and
                              portraits of major influences MacDonald and Williams.

                              There's an interesting little paragraph about the household w/ Mrs Moore
                              which keeps things very sketchy except to say that intimates know she is not
                              really his "mother."

                              A small b&w version of the cover is at <A
                              HREF="http://geocities.yahoo.com/toto?s=76000019">http://geocities.yahoo.com/t
                              oto?s=76000019</A> but in no way does it justice.

                              Here's the article: <A
                              HREF="http://www.apologetics.org/articles/cslewis.html">Apologetics: C. S.
                              Lewis in Time Magazine</A> I wish I knew who wrote it.

                              And here's a piece on Artzybasheff, but alas, w/o the Lewis painting: <A
                              HREF="http://www.bpib.com/artzybas.htm">Boris Artzybasheff Biography</A>

                              Mary S
                            • Ted Sherman
                              I ve seen the Time cover in question and, in fact, have photocopied it (though i don t know where the copy is). Ted PS: Try a large university library that has
                              Message 14 of 19 , Aug 1, 2000
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                                I've seen the Time cover in question and, in fact, have photocopied it (though i
                                don't know where the copy is).

                                Ted

                                PS: Try a large university library that has bound copies of Time.

                                WendellWag@... wrote:

                                > There's an article in _The Washington Post_ (July 24th, page A7) about George
                                > W. Bush's (and his campaign advisors') attempts to speak to the evangelical
                                > communty. He was introduced by one aide, George Wead, to many evangelic
                                > leaders. He made attempts to stay in touch with some of them and, among
                                > other things, "he dug up an old Time magazine cover of author C. S. Lewis,
                                > the evangelicals' leterary favorite, to send to a Wheaton College professor
                                > he had met with."
                                >
                                > DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A POLITICAL ARGUMENT.
                                > DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A POLITICAL ARGUMENT.
                                > DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A POLITICAL ARGUMENT.
                                >
                                > My question is "How difficult would this be?"
                                >
                                > I've been reading and collecting Lewis for over twenty-five years and I've
                                > never seen that issue of _Time_ (from August 8, 1947). I checked on E-bay
                                > and abebooks.com and they don't have any copies. Have any of you seen that
                                > issue? Do any of you own it? Is there any way that someone could obtain it
                                > (particularly someone who had not previously been a Lewis collector) except
                                > by paying a dealer for a extensive (and expensive) search.
                                >
                                > Wendell Wagner
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org

                                --
                                Dr. Theodore James Sherman, Editor
                                Mythlore: A Journal of J. R. R. Tolkien, C. S. Lewis, Charles Williams and
                                Mythopoeic Literature
                                Box X041, Department of English
                                Middle Tennessee State University
                                Murfreesboro, TN 37132
                                615 898-5836; FAX 615 898-5098
                                tsherman@...
                                tedsherman@...
                              • WendellWag@aol.com
                                O.K., once again: I ve seen the cover in pictures in books. I have no interest in seeing it again. I can read the article if I want online. I ll do that
                                Message 15 of 19 , Aug 1, 2000
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                                  O.K., once again: I've seen the cover in pictures in books. I have no
                                  interest in seeing it again. I can read the article if I want online. I'll
                                  do that eventually, but I'm not in a hurry. I didn't want to find the
                                  magazine myself. I just wanted to know, if someone wanted to give someone
                                  else a copy of the magazine, how hard it would be to find a copy. Could one
                                  just "dig up" a copy, or would it take an extensive and expensive search?

                                  Wendell
                                • David S. Bratman
                                  ... For some reason I read radiorating as a variant of rotating , and imagine Lewis spinning in place. No wonder he gave it up. Time-ese was, thank
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Aug 2, 2000
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                                    On Tue, 1 Aug 2000 Stolzi@... wrote:

                                    > And only one TIME-ism that I noted. The magazine was known back then for its
                                    > "snappy" word coinages (most of them pretty ghastly) and in this article it
                                    > says that Lewis "has given up radiorating." (radio - orating, blech)

                                    For some reason I read "radiorating" as a variant of "rotating", and
                                    imagine Lewis spinning in place. No wonder he gave it up.

                                    Time-ese was, thank goodness, already dying out by 1947. It was a bizarre
                                    dialect, vaguely based on the abbreviated language called "telegraphese"
                                    which journalists used to master to save on by-the-word charges when
                                    sending dispatches by telegram back to the office. Some newspapers and
                                    magazines would print the dispatches that way, and the style became
                                    associated with "snappy" journalism. Time - founded in 1923, the height
                                    of the "Front Page" era - then took it up deliberately, even when it
                                    wasn't economically necessary.

                                    Time-ese had a peculiar grammar as well as an abbreviated vocabulary. My
                                    favorite example comes from an article about Time which The New Yorker
                                    published in the mid-30s: the content was utterly straight, but the
                                    article was written _in_ a parody of Time-ese. This was their
                                    description of Time-ese itself: "Backward ran sentences until reeled the
                                    mind."

                                    This type of writing, and its companion of sloppy thinking, probably
                                    contributed more to Lewis's dislike of journalism than the personal
                                    intrusiveness which is more characteristic of journalism today than it was
                                    then. (There were other factors as well, of course.) I do not recall
                                    reading anything about why Lewis consented to be profiled by Time, or his
                                    reaction to the result: though words like "radiorator" would make the
                                    lowliest English teacher's teeth ache, let alone Lewis's.

                                    But I am fond of Tolkien's comment on the occasion of a newspaper
                                    columnist calling CSL "Ascetic Mr. Lewis." Tolkien said "I ask you! He
                                    put away three pints in a very short session we had this morning, and said
                                    he was 'going short for Lent.'" (Tolkien's Letters, no. 56)

                                    David Bratman
                                  • WendellWag@aol.com
                                    Here s the letter I ve just sent to The Washington Post: To the editors: In an article on page A7 of the July 24, 2000 issue, you write that as a memento of a
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Aug 5, 2000
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                                      Here's the letter I've just sent to The Washington Post:

                                      To the editors:

                                      In an article on page A7 of the July 24, 2000 issue, you write that as a
                                      memento of a meeting, George W. Bush "dug up" and sent to a Wheaton College
                                      professor a copy of a Time magazine cover showing C. S. Lewis. My first
                                      reaction was that it's impossible to just casually dig up this issue (which
                                      is from September 8, 1947). In over twenty-five years of reading and
                                      casually collecting Lewis's works, I've never seen a copy of it. It's not
                                      that the issue is really rare. Lots of libraries have complete sets of Time
                                      magazine, but I'll assume that Bush didn't steal the copy from a library.
                                      It's not the sort of thing that can be found by casually searching used
                                      bookstores though, and I assumed that it would take paying a dealer to do an
                                      extensive (and rather expensive) search if one wanted a copy.

                                      I asked people on an E-mail mailing list I belong to just how hard it would
                                      be to find this issue. To my surprise, one person was able to suggest a
                                      fairly simple way to obtain a copy. He did a search on the Internet on
                                      dealers of used Time magazines. He found quite a few of them and E-mailed
                                      them all asking if they had the issue. Several of them did, and he was able
                                      to buy a copy for only four dollars. So I conclude that it's not that
                                      difficult to obtain the issue with the C. S. Lewis cover now that we have the
                                      Internet. But then, we have Al Gore to thank for that, right?

                                      Sincerely,
                                      Wendell Wagner, Jr.

                                      Anyway, I won't be leaving till the 13th, but for those who are leaving this
                                      week, have a nice trip and I'll see you at Mythcon.
                                    • Ted Sherman
                                      Uh, Wendell, what s the point? Ted PS: I won t be at MythCon this year--don t want to get too near the Cracks of Doom! ... -- Dr. Theodore James Sherman,
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Aug 5, 2000
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                                        Uh, Wendell, what's the point?

                                        Ted

                                        PS: I won't be at MythCon this year--don't want to get too near the Cracks of
                                        Doom!

                                        WendellWag@... wrote:

                                        > Here's the letter I've just sent to The Washington Post:
                                        >
                                        > To the editors:
                                        >
                                        > In an article on page A7 of the July 24, 2000 issue, you write that as a
                                        > memento of a meeting, George W. Bush "dug up" and sent to a Wheaton College
                                        > professor a copy of a Time magazine cover showing C. S. Lewis. My first
                                        > reaction was that it's impossible to just casually dig up this issue (which
                                        > is from September 8, 1947). In over twenty-five years of reading and
                                        > casually collecting Lewis's works, I've never seen a copy of it. It's not
                                        > that the issue is really rare. Lots of libraries have complete sets of Time
                                        > magazine, but I'll assume that Bush didn't steal the copy from a library.
                                        > It's not the sort of thing that can be found by casually searching used
                                        > bookstores though, and I assumed that it would take paying a dealer to do an
                                        > extensive (and rather expensive) search if one wanted a copy.
                                        >
                                        > I asked people on an E-mail mailing list I belong to just how hard it would
                                        > be to find this issue. To my surprise, one person was able to suggest a
                                        > fairly simple way to obtain a copy. He did a search on the Internet on
                                        > dealers of used Time magazines. He found quite a few of them and E-mailed
                                        > them all asking if they had the issue. Several of them did, and he was able
                                        > to buy a copy for only four dollars. So I conclude that it's not that
                                        > difficult to obtain the issue with the C. S. Lewis cover now that we have the
                                        > Internet. But then, we have Al Gore to thank for that, right?
                                        >
                                        > Sincerely,
                                        > Wendell Wagner, Jr.
                                        >
                                        > Anyway, I won't be leaving till the 13th, but for those who are leaving this
                                        > week, have a nice trip and I'll see you at Mythcon.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org

                                        --
                                        Dr. Theodore James Sherman, Editor
                                        Mythlore: A Journal of J. R. R. Tolkien, C. S. Lewis, Charles Williams and
                                        Mythopoeic Literature
                                        Box X041, Department of English
                                        Middle Tennessee State University
                                        Murfreesboro, TN 37132
                                        615 898-5836; FAX 615 898-5098
                                        tsherman@...
                                        tedsherman@...
                                      • WendellWag@aol.com
                                        In a message dated 8/5/00 7:41:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tedsherman@home.com writes:
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Aug 5, 2000
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                                          In a message dated 8/5/00 7:41:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                          tedsherman@... writes:

                                          << Uh, Wendell, what's the point? >>

                                          I don't know. Maybe nothing.
                                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.