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Re: New LotR-based movie: The Hunt for Gollum

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  • Jason Fisher
    ... Actually, the visuals in the trailer are quite impressive. As is the music, which the site says was composed by the director and project creator, Chris
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 23, 2008
      > This website was pointed out to me yesterday. I haven't watched
      > any of the video excerpts because it might ruin my day.

      Actually, the visuals in the trailer are quite impressive. As is the music, which the site says was composed by the director and project creator, Chris Bouchard. Though I will say the clips from the soundtrack sound *strikingly* like Howard Shore! But good visuals and music aside, this is really just fanfiction in fancy dress.

      > My question is this: can the filmmakers get away with blatantly
      > using Tolkien's world and characters in a movie? I'm no expert
      > on this, but I don't think claiming that you're a non-profit and
      > distributing this for free gets them out of copyright law.

      No, there's no way this is legal. You're right: copyright law doesn't protect you just because you claim to be a non-profit (and I'm sure they're not a legally registered NPO anyway). This seems to me (also not an expert) a clear violation of both copyright and trademark.

      > Since the Tolkien Estate sold the rights, I'm guessing that Tolkien
      > Enterprises and their lawyers are the people who would be about
      > to send a "cease and desist" letter to these folks.

      It's more complicated than that, too. Tolkien sold some, but not all, of the film rights to his work. As I understand it, this is one of the obstacles to a Peter Jackson-produced bridge film between The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. Some of the material Jackson wanted to use, if I understand things correctly, comes from ancillary writings published in various places, but the rights sold to Saul Zaentz / Tolkien Enterprises included *only* The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, I believe. Perhaps somebody more knowledgeable can elaborate further (or correct me if I'm wrong about any of this).

      Jason

      P.S. On top of all this, just the idea of this movie seems *boring*. The hunt for Gollum works as a brief expository passage, but as a feature film? No thanks.
    • David Bratman
      ... Yes, they do, don t they? It s one of the many harms of the Jackson films: film colonization. Have you noticed how nearly all fan-art depictions of LOTR
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 23, 2008
        Jason Fisher <visualweasel@...> wrote:

        >Actually, the visuals in the trailer are quite impressive. As is the music,
        >which the site says was composed by the director and project creator, Chris
        >Bouchard. Though I will say the clips from the soundtrack sound *strikingly*
        >like Howard Shore!

        Yes, they do, don't they? It's one of the many harms of the Jackson films: film colonization. Have you noticed how nearly all fan-art depictions of LOTR characters now look like Jackson's actors, whether the artist meant to depict them or not? Their imaginations have been colonized.

        Similarly, I guess Tolkien film music has to sound like Howard Shore. (Imagine it sounding like John Williams instead - that would be _wrong_, somehow - and you can see how deeply the presupposition has embedded itself.)

        Howard Shore on a cheap synthesizer, yet. Even worse.

        The visuals are beautiful, yes, but that's the landscape's fault. I'm sure I've seen that mountain lake before in half a dozen other movies. Judging from the brief glimpses of acting we get, this film will consist of two hours of Aragorn wandering tediously through the woods, looking as if he's about to say, "Be vewy quiet! I'm hunting wabbits!"

        I hope it's better than that, though the misspelling of "Eregion" on the map at the beginning of the second trailer does not raise hopes. At least they spelled "Tolkien" correctly.
      • Doug Kane
        ... Thanks for the chuckle, David. That was classic. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 19 , Sep 23, 2008
          David Bratman wrote:

          > Judging from the brief glimpses of acting we get, this film will consist of two hours of Aragorn wandering tediously through the
          > woods, looking as if he's about to say, "Be vewy quiet! I'm hunting wabbits!"

          Thanks for the chuckle, David. That was classic.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jason Fisher
          ... Yes, I noticed that too. It fairly jumped off the map at me.
          Message 4 of 19 , Sep 23, 2008
            David Bratman <dbratman@...> wrote:

            > I hope it's better than that, though the misspelling of
            > "Eregion" on the map at the beginning of the second trailer
            > does not raise hopes. At least they spelled "Tolkien" correctly.

            Yes, I noticed that too. It fairly jumped off the map at me.
          • "Beregond, Anders Stenström"
            ... And south of Eregion, Tharbad has apparently been converted from a place to a region. Chivalrously, Beregond
            Message 5 of 19 , Sep 23, 2008
              Jason Fisher wrote:
              >
              >
              > David Bratman <dbratman@...
              > <mailto:dbratman%40earthlink.net>> wrote:
              >
              > > I hope it's better than that, though the misspelling of
              > > "Eregion" on the map at the beginning of the second trailer
              > > does not raise hopes. At least they spelled "Tolkien" correctly.
              >
              > Yes, I noticed that too. It fairly jumped off the map at me.

              And south of Eregion, Tharbad has apparently been converted
              from a place to a region.

              Chivalrously,

              Beregond
            • ccampboyle
              (de-lurking) If you check their website more carefully, you ll see this is not feature-length; it s a 30 minute short. Cathy Boyle ... Judging from the brief
              Message 6 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                (de-lurking)

                If you check their website more carefully, you'll see this is not
                feature-length; it's a 30 minute short.

                Cathy Boyle

                --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Bratman <dbratman@...> wrote:
                Judging from the brief glimpses of acting we get, this film will
                consist of two hours of Aragorn wandering tediously through the woods,
                looking as if he's about to say, "Be vewy quiet! I'm hunting wabbits!"
                >
              • David Bratman
                I m sorry; my eyes glazed over from the clips. Concern for continued personal health caused me to stop there.
                Message 7 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                  I'm sorry; my eyes glazed over from the clips. Concern for continued personal health caused me to stop there.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  >From: ccampboyle <ccampboyle@...>
                  >Sent: Sep 24, 2008 12:19 PM
                  >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: [mythsoc] Re: New LotR-based movie: The Hunt for Gollum
                  >
                  >(de-lurking)
                  >
                  >If you check their website more carefully, you'll see this is not
                  >feature-length; it's a 30 minute short.
                  >
                  >Cathy Boyle
                  >
                  >--- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Bratman <dbratman@...> wrote:
                  > Judging from the brief glimpses of acting we get, this film will
                  >consist of two hours of Aragorn wandering tediously through the woods,
                  >looking as if he's about to say, "Be vewy quiet! I'm hunting wabbits!"
                • Michael Cunningham
                  I have been in touch with the two main producers of this project, primarily as a fan and because this independent has been receiving some very positive
                  Message 8 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                    I have been in touch with the two main producers of this project, primarily
                    as a fan and because this independent has been receiving some very positive
                    coverage in several genre-related magazines. Naively or otherwise I thought
                    this to be a number of Tolkien aficionados with a cinematic and stage
                    background (and therefore some knowledge of copyright issues) expressing
                    their appreciation for the professor's works and, to a degree, Jackson's
                    cinematic interpretation of such. The producers are aware of these concerns
                    re copyright but raised the issue of the 'fan film' which may inhabit its
                    own genre and as such not fall under the legal remit of a large scale,
                    widely distributed, money making enterprise.

                    It's certainly not going to win any Oscars (or praise, it seems) but in
                    conversation with those involved the over-riding factor is that they are
                    purely fans and the feature is a labour of love and affection for a masterly
                    work that fires a creative spark in many of the folk who explore the world
                    between its pages.

                    I've pasted the response from the producers who sought to address the
                    copyright issue.

                    Michael

                    -----
                    I appreciate your editor's concern and he might be right. We haven't heard
                    anything from The Tolkien Estate but I can't see that we pose them any
                    serious threat. Hopefully we're helping to keep Tolkien's work alive. Anyway
                    this is question we get asked a lot and it's very important to make clear
                    that we feel there isn't a serious issue here. Let me explain why. The film
                    is non-profit and we're just a bunch of Tolkien fans making this in our
                    spare time as a labour of love. Here is an FAQ that explains more. It's also
                    worth noting that since many Star Wars "fan films" have been made and widely
                    publicised, the fan film has become recognised internationally as a genre in
                    itself.

                    How are you managing to make this with characters created by Tolkien when
                    the intellectual property rights are held elsewhere?
                    A very fair point. The answer is that we are a non-commercial film club and
                    the project is entirely non-profit. We certainly do not intend to breach
                    legal copyright and if we were to sell the finished film or anything related
                    to it then this would indeed be illegal. However this project is non-profit
                    and any videos and media generated will always be available freely and
                    openly over the internet. Nobody is or ever will be profiting financially
                    from this project. No products are being made or sold. The project is funded
                    by the fans who are taking part in it, a group of individuals collaborating
                    for fun. We're working on this project based on Lord of the Rings because we
                    love the material and as a way to showcase our technical film making skills.
                    If the copyright owners are concerned, then legally speaking we plead that
                    we are only a bunch of Tolkien fans practicing our film-making skills and
                    documenting the results online.

                    ------------
                  • Croft, Janet B.
                    Being a non-profit doesn’t automatically give you free reign to do as you please with other folks’ copyrighted material, which is how they appear to be
                    Message 9 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                      Being a non-profit doesn’t automatically give you free reign to do as you please with other folks’ copyrighted material, which is how they appear to be approaching this project. However, it can have weight in a Four Factors of Fair Use analysis, which is what they should sit down and do before the Estate or Saul Zantz or New Line takes notice of them. They should at least become more familiar with the vocabulary of fair use, and not rely solely on being non-profit to protect themselves.

                      Janet Brennan Croft

                      From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Cunningham
                      Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:19 PM
                      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: New LotR-based movie: The Hunt for Gollum


                      I have been in touch with the two main producers of this project, primarily
                      as a fan and because this independent has been receiving some very positive
                      coverage in several genre-related magazines. Naively or otherwise I thought
                      this to be a number of Tolkien aficionados with a cinematic and stage
                      background (and therefore some knowledge of copyright issues) expressing
                      their appreciation for the professor's works and, to a degree, Jackson's
                      cinematic interpretation of such. The producers are aware of these concerns
                      re copyright but raised the issue of the 'fan film' which may inhabit its
                      own genre and as such not fall under the legal remit of a large scale,
                      widely distributed, money making enterprise.

                      It's certainly not going to win any Oscars (or praise, it seems) but in
                      conversation with those involved the over-riding factor is that they are
                      purely fans and the feature is a labour of love and affection for a masterly
                      work that fires a creative spark in many of the folk who explore the world
                      between its pages.

                      I've pasted the response from the producers who sought to address the
                      copyright issue.

                      Michael

                      -----
                      I appreciate your editor's concern and he might be right. We haven't heard
                      anything from The Tolkien Estate but I can't see that we pose them any
                      serious threat. Hopefully we're helping to keep Tolkien's work alive. Anyway
                      this is question we get asked a lot and it's very important to make clear
                      that we feel there isn't a serious issue here. Let me explain why. The film
                      is non-profit and we're just a bunch of Tolkien fans making this in our
                      spare time as a labour of love. Here is an FAQ that explains more. It's also
                      worth noting that since many Star Wars "fan films" have been made and widely
                      publicised, the fan film has become recognised internationally as a genre in
                      itself.

                      How are you managing to make this with characters created by Tolkien when
                      the intellectual property rights are held elsewhere?
                      A very fair point. The answer is that we are a non-commercial film club and
                      the project is entirely non-profit. We certainly do not intend to breach
                      legal copyright and if we were to sell the finished film or anything related
                      to it then this would indeed be illegal. However this project is non-profit
                      and any videos and media generated will always be available freely and
                      openly over the internet. Nobody is or ever will be profiting financially
                      from this project. No products are being made or sold. The project is funded
                      by the fans who are taking part in it, a group of individuals collaborating
                      for fun. We're working on this project based on Lord of the Rings because we
                      love the material and as a way to showcase our technical film making skills.
                      If the copyright owners are concerned, then legally speaking we plead that
                      we are only a bunch of Tolkien fans practicing our film-making skills and
                      documenting the results online.

                      ------------



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Steven Sams
                      Where would the bridge film material come from again? What stories? Thanks, Steven [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                        Where would the bridge film material come from again? What stories?



                        Thanks,



                        Steven









                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Michael Cunningham
                        Possibly they should have been mindful of the Damnatus outcome. Intellectual property issues are rarely black and white and may see this project slip into the
                        Message 11 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                          Possibly they should have been mindful of the Damnatus outcome. Intellectual property issues are rarely black and white and may see this project slip into the Dead Marshes.

                          Michael


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Croft, Janet B.
                          To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:36 PM
                          Subject: RE: [mythsoc] Re: New LotR-based movie: The Hunt for Gollum


                          Being a non-profit doesn’t automatically give you free reign to do as you please with other folks’ copyrighted material, which is how they appear to be approaching this project. However, it can have weight in a Four Factors of Fair Use analysis, which is what they should sit down and do before the Estate or Saul Zantz or New Line takes notice of them. They should at least become more familiar with the vocabulary of fair use, and not rely solely on being non-profit to protect themselves.

                          Janet Brennan Croft

                          From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Cunningham
                          Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:19 PM
                          To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: New LotR-based movie: The Hunt for Gollum


                          I have been in touch with the two main producers of this project, primarily
                          as a fan and because this independent has been receiving some very positive
                          coverage in several genre-related magazines. Naively or otherwise I thought
                          this to be a number of Tolkien aficionados with a cinematic and stage
                          background (and therefore some knowledge of copyright issues) expressing
                          their appreciation for the professor's works and, to a degree, Jackson's
                          cinematic interpretation of such. The producers are aware of these concerns
                          re copyright but raised the issue of the 'fan film' which may inhabit its
                          own genre and as such not fall under the legal remit of a large scale,
                          widely distributed, money making enterprise.

                          It's certainly not going to win any Oscars (or praise, it seems) but in
                          conversation with those involved the over-riding factor is that they are
                          purely fans and the feature is a labour of love and affection for a masterly
                          work that fires a creative spark in many of the folk who explore the world
                          between its pages.

                          I've pasted the response from the producers who sought to address the
                          copyright issue.

                          Michael

                          -----
                          I appreciate your editor's concern and he might be right. We haven't heard
                          anything from The Tolkien Estate but I can't see that we pose them any
                          serious threat. Hopefully we're helping to keep Tolkien's work alive. Anyway
                          this is question we get asked a lot and it's very important to make clear
                          that we feel there isn't a serious issue here. Let me explain why. The film
                          is non-profit and we're just a bunch of Tolkien fans making this in our
                          spare time as a labour of love. Here is an FAQ that explains more. It's also
                          worth noting that since many Star Wars "fan films" have been made and widely
                          publicised, the fan film has become recognised internationally as a genre in
                          itself.

                          How are you managing to make this with characters created by Tolkien when
                          the intellectual property rights are held elsewhere?
                          A very fair point. The answer is that we are a non-commercial film club and
                          the project is entirely non-profit. We certainly do not intend to breach
                          legal copyright and if we were to sell the finished film or anything related
                          to it then this would indeed be illegal. However this project is non-profit
                          and any videos and media generated will always be available freely and
                          openly over the internet. Nobody is or ever will be profiting financially
                          from this project. No products are being made or sold. The project is funded
                          by the fans who are taking part in it, a group of individuals collaborating
                          for fun. We're working on this project based on Lord of the Rings because we
                          love the material and as a way to showcase our technical film making skills.
                          If the copyright owners are concerned, then legally speaking we plead that
                          we are only a bunch of Tolkien fans practicing our film-making skills and
                          documenting the results online.

                          ------------


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                          No virus found in this incoming message.
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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Sarah Beach
                          The problem with the filmmakers citing the STAR WARS fanfilms as precedent is that Lucasfilm actually ALLOWS them to be made. Heck, Lucasfilm even sponsors a
                          Message 12 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                            The problem with the filmmakers citing the STAR WARS fanfilms as
                            precedent is that Lucasfilm actually ALLOWS them to be made. Heck,
                            Lucasfilm even sponsors a Star Wars fanfic film (short) award at the
                            San Diego ComicCon each year. So it is NOT a good example of "Well,
                            if they can do it, so can we in this other property's playground."

                            Alas, I think the filmmakers, though they may be "pure-hearted", are
                            a bit naive about the possible ramifications.

                            I do hope that if something does get stirred up about it all, they
                            come through unscathed.

                            --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Cunningham" <vargeisa@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > I have been in touch with the two main producers of this project,
                            primarily
                            > as a fan and because this independent has been receiving some very
                            positive
                            > coverage in several genre-related magazines. Naively or otherwise I
                            thought
                            > this to be a number of Tolkien aficionados with a cinematic and
                            stage
                            > background (and therefore some knowledge of copyright issues)
                            expressing
                            > their appreciation for the professor's works and, to a degree,
                            Jackson's
                            > cinematic interpretation of such. The producers are aware of these
                            concerns
                            > re copyright but raised the issue of the 'fan film' which may
                            inhabit its
                            > own genre and as such not fall under the legal remit of a large
                            scale,
                            > widely distributed, money making enterprise.
                            >
                            > It's certainly not going to win any Oscars (or praise, it seems)
                            but in
                            > conversation with those involved the over-riding factor is that
                            they are
                            > purely fans and the feature is a labour of love and affection for a
                            masterly
                            > work that fires a creative spark in many of the folk who explore
                            the world
                            > between its pages.
                            >
                            > I've pasted the response from the producers who sought to address
                            the
                            > copyright issue.
                            >
                            > Michael
                            >
                            > -----
                            > I appreciate your editor's concern and he might be right. We
                            haven't heard
                            > anything from The Tolkien Estate but I can't see that we pose them
                            any
                            > serious threat. Hopefully we're helping to keep Tolkien's work
                            alive. Anyway
                            > this is question we get asked a lot and it's very important to make
                            clear
                            > that we feel there isn't a serious issue here. Let me explain why.
                            The film
                            > is non-profit and we're just a bunch of Tolkien fans making this in
                            our
                            > spare time as a labour of love. Here is an FAQ that explains more.
                            It's also
                            > worth noting that since many Star Wars "fan films" have been made
                            and widely
                            > publicised, the fan film has become recognised internationally as a
                            genre in
                            > itself.
                            >
                            > How are you managing to make this with characters created by
                            Tolkien when
                            > the intellectual property rights are held elsewhere?
                            > A very fair point. The answer is that we are a non-commercial film
                            club and
                            > the project is entirely non-profit. We certainly do not intend to
                            breach
                            > legal copyright and if we were to sell the finished film or
                            anything related
                            > to it then this would indeed be illegal. However this project is
                            non-profit
                            > and any videos and media generated will always be available freely
                            and
                            > openly over the internet. Nobody is or ever will be profiting
                            financially
                            > from this project. No products are being made or sold. The project
                            is funded
                            > by the fans who are taking part in it, a group of individuals
                            collaborating
                            > for fun. We're working on this project based on Lord of the Rings
                            because we
                            > love the material and as a way to showcase our technical film
                            making skills.
                            > If the copyright owners are concerned, then legally speaking we
                            plead that
                            > we are only a bunch of Tolkien fans practicing our film-making
                            skills and
                            > documenting the results online.
                            >
                            > ------------
                            >
                          • David Bratman
                            ... If they think this, they have mistaken probably too small to be worth suing for legally immune from being sued. They are also fantastically kidding
                            Message 13 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                              >From: Michael Cunningham <vargeisa@...> wrote:

                              >The producers are aware of these concerns
                              >re copyright but raised the issue of the 'fan film' which may inhabit its
                              >own genre and as such not fall under the legal remit of a large scale,
                              >widely distributed, money making enterprise.

                              If they think this, they have mistaken "probably too small to be worth suing" for "legally immune from being sued." They are also fantastically kidding themselves if they don't realize that posting something on the open Web is not a synonym for "wide distribution."

                              And you quote them:

                              >We haven't heard
                              >anything from The Tolkien Estate but I can't see that we pose them any
                              >serious threat. Hopefully we're helping to keep Tolkien's work alive.

                              This is amazingly arrogant. The Tolkien Estate and their legal licensees get to decide what's to be released to keep Tolkien's work alive. Fan film makers don't get to decide that.


                              >The answer is that we are a non-commercial film club and
                              >the project is entirely non-profit. We certainly do not intend to breach
                              >legal copyright and if we were to sell the finished film or anything related
                              >to it then this would indeed be illegal. However this project is non-profit
                              >and any videos and media generated will always be available freely and
                              >openly over the internet.

                              This is so inaccurate it's not even funny. Disavowing any intention of making a profit is not a "break copyright free" card.

                              >If the copyright owners are concerned, then legally speaking we plead that
                              >we are only a bunch of Tolkien fans practicing our film-making skills and
                              >documenting the results online.

                              Doing whatever you like with Tolkien's characters privately, for your own amusement, is one thing. Documenting it online is quite another. If that's really their intent, they should make up their own Tolkienesque story and film that. If they didn't do that because nobody would watch it, that only proves how much they're piggybacking on Tolkien's fame. It might seen, or even be, silly to worry that this little film could harm Tolkien's reputation and future earnings, but again: they don't get to decide that.
                            • John D Rateliff
                              ... Thanks for posting the link, Ellen. News to me that any such project was in the works, much less that it was nearing completion. As for whether they can
                              Message 14 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                                On Sep 23, 2008, at 4:58 AM, Ellen wrote:
                                > My question is this: can the filmmakers get away with blatantly
                                > using Tolkien's world and characters in a movie?

                                Thanks for posting the link, Ellen. News to me that any such project
                                was in the works, much less that it was nearing completion.
                                As for whether they can get away with this, I wdn't bet on it.
                                It's one thing to post a piece of fan fiction; the Estate might be
                                willing to let that pass. But a film is something else, and Tolkien
                                Enterprises is famous for bringing the hammer down on anything that
                                poaches on their turf. Nor are major studios like New Line inclined
                                to turn a blind eye to competition in any shape or form. I think
                                they've probably taken the Lovecraft independent film phenomenon as a
                                model, not taking into account that Lovecraft's work is out of
                                copyright. Then too, the $30 donation in return for a cd somewhat
                                undercuts the 'not-for-profit' claim.
                                And wasn't there someone else a while back working on a
                                Tolkienesque film?

                                Jason Fisher <visualweasel@...> wrote:
                                > Actually, the visuals in the trailer are quite impressive. As is
                                > the music . . . Though I will say the clips from the soundtrack
                                > sound *strikingly* like Howard Shore!

                                It was pretty clear that their goal was to make their piece seem as
                                much like Jackson as possible, right down to the sweep across snow-
                                covered mountains. Hence, the Shore-like music (which I thought they
                                did a better job on with the first clip than the second). I was
                                impressed by how beautiful the natural settings were; someone in the
                                project has a good eye for cinematography.


                                David Bratman wrote:
                                > Have you noticed how nearly all fan-art depictions of LOTR
                                > characters now look like Jackson's actors, whether the artist meant
                                > to depict them or not?

                                No, I hadn't, but that very issue (film-inspired art) is being
                                debated in the latest AMON HEN (#213).


                                On Sep 24, 2008, at 11:20 AM, Steven Sams wrote:
                                > Where would the bridge film material come from again? What stories?


                                Presumably from the Appendices. I'm sure they'd love to use material
                                from UNFINISHED TALES, but they'd have to negotiate a separate
                                license from the Estate to do that (unlikely, I shd think).

                                On Sep 24, 2008, at 11:25 AM, Michael Cunningham wrote:
                                > Possibly they should have been mindful of the Damnatus outcome.

                                Ouch!. I'd forgotten that one. Good example.

                                On Sep 24, 2008, at 9:19 AM, ccampboyle wrote:
                                > If you check their website more carefully, you'll see this is not
                                > feature-length; it's a 30 minute short.


                                I'd missed the detail of thirty minutes, but they do refer to it
                                several times as a short, so it's definitely not a full-length movie.


                                On Sep 24, 2008, at 9:33 AM, David Bratman wrote:
                                > I'm sorry; my eyes glazed over from the clips. Concern for
                                > continued personal health caused me to stop there.


                                Sorry to hear it; get well soon.

                                --John R.
                              • WendellWag@aol.com
                                There s really no point in us discussing this. They re violating copyright law, but it s not our job to enforce the law. Somebody here notify the Tolkien
                                Message 15 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                                  There's really no point in us discussing this. They're violating copyright
                                  law, but it's not our job to enforce the law. Somebody here notify the
                                  Tolkien estate about this website. The estate will decide how to proceed against
                                  these people. Our discussing this accomplishes nothing.

                                  Wendell Wagner



                                  **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
                                  challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
                                  calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • aveeris523@aol.com
                                  If by the bridge film you mean the connection between The Hobbit and LOTR , the essay The Quest of Erebor in Unfinished Tales might be a good start. Steve
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                                    If by the "bridge film" you mean the connection between The Hobbit and LOTR ,
                                    the essay "The Quest of Erebor" in Unfinished Tales might be a good start.
                                    Steve Gaddis


                                    **************
                                    Looking for simple solutions to your real-life
                                    financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information,
                                    tips and calculators.
                                    (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Michael Cunningham
                                    Not my intention to linger on this but...another fan film in production was highlighted to me: http://www.bornofhope.com/index.html They have a disclaimer, but
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Sep 25, 2008
                                      Not my intention to linger on this but...another fan film in production was highlighted to me: http://www.bornofhope.com/index.html

                                      They have a disclaimer, but that may be all it is. I suppose one may be looking towards a stated case being published if any legal action is taken to prevent future enterprises. As for me I think I'll just stick to music!

                                      Michael


                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: WendellWag@...
                                      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 4:08 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [mythsoc] New LotR-based movie: The Hunt for Gollum


                                      There's really no point in us discussing this. They're violating copyright
                                      law, but it's not our job to enforce the law. Somebody here notify the
                                      Tolkien estate about this website. The estate will decide how to proceed against
                                      these people. Our discussing this accomplishes nothing.

                                      Wendell Wagner

                                      **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
                                      challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
                                      calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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                                    • William Cloud Hicklin
                                      ... The Hobbit and LOTR , ... be a good start. ... Except, Steve, New Line/Time Warner/Zaentz have *no* rights to Unfinished Tales, nor to any other Tolkien
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Sep 25, 2008
                                        --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, aveeris523@... wrote:
                                        >
                                        > If by the "bridge film" you mean the connection between
                                        The Hobbit and LOTR ,
                                        > the essay "The Quest of Erebor" in Unfinished Tales might
                                        be a good start.
                                        > Steve Gaddis
                                        >
                                        >

                                        Except, Steve, New Line/Time Warner/Zaentz have *no* rights
                                        to Unfinished Tales, nor to any other Tolkien writings
                                        outside the covers of The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.
                                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.