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New LotR-based movie: The Hunt for Gollum

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  • Ellen
    This website was pointed out to me yesterday. I haven t watched any of the video excerpts because it might ruin my day. http://www.thehuntforgollum.com/ My
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 23, 2008
      This website was pointed out to me yesterday. I haven't watched any of
      the video excerpts because it might ruin my day.

      http://www.thehuntforgollum.com/

      My question is this: can the filmmakers get away with blatantly using
      Tolkien's world and characters in a movie? I'm no expert on this, but I
      don't think claiming that you're a non-profit and distributing this for
      free gets them out of copyright law. Since the Tolkien Estate sold the
      rights, I'm guessing that Tolkien Enterprises and their lawyers are the
      people who would be about to send a "cease and desist" letter to these
      folks.

      http://www.tolkien-ent.com/

      Ellen Denham


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jason Fisher
      ... Actually, the visuals in the trailer are quite impressive. As is the music, which the site says was composed by the director and project creator, Chris
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 23, 2008
        > This website was pointed out to me yesterday. I haven't watched
        > any of the video excerpts because it might ruin my day.

        Actually, the visuals in the trailer are quite impressive. As is the music, which the site says was composed by the director and project creator, Chris Bouchard. Though I will say the clips from the soundtrack sound *strikingly* like Howard Shore! But good visuals and music aside, this is really just fanfiction in fancy dress.

        > My question is this: can the filmmakers get away with blatantly
        > using Tolkien's world and characters in a movie? I'm no expert
        > on this, but I don't think claiming that you're a non-profit and
        > distributing this for free gets them out of copyright law.

        No, there's no way this is legal. You're right: copyright law doesn't protect you just because you claim to be a non-profit (and I'm sure they're not a legally registered NPO anyway). This seems to me (also not an expert) a clear violation of both copyright and trademark.

        > Since the Tolkien Estate sold the rights, I'm guessing that Tolkien
        > Enterprises and their lawyers are the people who would be about
        > to send a "cease and desist" letter to these folks.

        It's more complicated than that, too. Tolkien sold some, but not all, of the film rights to his work. As I understand it, this is one of the obstacles to a Peter Jackson-produced bridge film between The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. Some of the material Jackson wanted to use, if I understand things correctly, comes from ancillary writings published in various places, but the rights sold to Saul Zaentz / Tolkien Enterprises included *only* The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, I believe. Perhaps somebody more knowledgeable can elaborate further (or correct me if I'm wrong about any of this).

        Jason

        P.S. On top of all this, just the idea of this movie seems *boring*. The hunt for Gollum works as a brief expository passage, but as a feature film? No thanks.
      • David Bratman
        ... Yes, they do, don t they? It s one of the many harms of the Jackson films: film colonization. Have you noticed how nearly all fan-art depictions of LOTR
        Message 3 of 19 , Sep 23, 2008
          Jason Fisher <visualweasel@...> wrote:

          >Actually, the visuals in the trailer are quite impressive. As is the music,
          >which the site says was composed by the director and project creator, Chris
          >Bouchard. Though I will say the clips from the soundtrack sound *strikingly*
          >like Howard Shore!

          Yes, they do, don't they? It's one of the many harms of the Jackson films: film colonization. Have you noticed how nearly all fan-art depictions of LOTR characters now look like Jackson's actors, whether the artist meant to depict them or not? Their imaginations have been colonized.

          Similarly, I guess Tolkien film music has to sound like Howard Shore. (Imagine it sounding like John Williams instead - that would be _wrong_, somehow - and you can see how deeply the presupposition has embedded itself.)

          Howard Shore on a cheap synthesizer, yet. Even worse.

          The visuals are beautiful, yes, but that's the landscape's fault. I'm sure I've seen that mountain lake before in half a dozen other movies. Judging from the brief glimpses of acting we get, this film will consist of two hours of Aragorn wandering tediously through the woods, looking as if he's about to say, "Be vewy quiet! I'm hunting wabbits!"

          I hope it's better than that, though the misspelling of "Eregion" on the map at the beginning of the second trailer does not raise hopes. At least they spelled "Tolkien" correctly.
        • Doug Kane
          ... Thanks for the chuckle, David. That was classic. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 19 , Sep 23, 2008
            David Bratman wrote:

            > Judging from the brief glimpses of acting we get, this film will consist of two hours of Aragorn wandering tediously through the
            > woods, looking as if he's about to say, "Be vewy quiet! I'm hunting wabbits!"

            Thanks for the chuckle, David. That was classic.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jason Fisher
            ... Yes, I noticed that too. It fairly jumped off the map at me.
            Message 5 of 19 , Sep 23, 2008
              David Bratman <dbratman@...> wrote:

              > I hope it's better than that, though the misspelling of
              > "Eregion" on the map at the beginning of the second trailer
              > does not raise hopes. At least they spelled "Tolkien" correctly.

              Yes, I noticed that too. It fairly jumped off the map at me.
            • "Beregond, Anders Stenström"
              ... And south of Eregion, Tharbad has apparently been converted from a place to a region. Chivalrously, Beregond
              Message 6 of 19 , Sep 23, 2008
                Jason Fisher wrote:
                >
                >
                > David Bratman <dbratman@...
                > <mailto:dbratman%40earthlink.net>> wrote:
                >
                > > I hope it's better than that, though the misspelling of
                > > "Eregion" on the map at the beginning of the second trailer
                > > does not raise hopes. At least they spelled "Tolkien" correctly.
                >
                > Yes, I noticed that too. It fairly jumped off the map at me.

                And south of Eregion, Tharbad has apparently been converted
                from a place to a region.

                Chivalrously,

                Beregond
              • ccampboyle
                (de-lurking) If you check their website more carefully, you ll see this is not feature-length; it s a 30 minute short. Cathy Boyle ... Judging from the brief
                Message 7 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                  (de-lurking)

                  If you check their website more carefully, you'll see this is not
                  feature-length; it's a 30 minute short.

                  Cathy Boyle

                  --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Bratman <dbratman@...> wrote:
                  Judging from the brief glimpses of acting we get, this film will
                  consist of two hours of Aragorn wandering tediously through the woods,
                  looking as if he's about to say, "Be vewy quiet! I'm hunting wabbits!"
                  >
                • David Bratman
                  I m sorry; my eyes glazed over from the clips. Concern for continued personal health caused me to stop there.
                  Message 8 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                    I'm sorry; my eyes glazed over from the clips. Concern for continued personal health caused me to stop there.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    >From: ccampboyle <ccampboyle@...>
                    >Sent: Sep 24, 2008 12:19 PM
                    >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: [mythsoc] Re: New LotR-based movie: The Hunt for Gollum
                    >
                    >(de-lurking)
                    >
                    >If you check their website more carefully, you'll see this is not
                    >feature-length; it's a 30 minute short.
                    >
                    >Cathy Boyle
                    >
                    >--- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Bratman <dbratman@...> wrote:
                    > Judging from the brief glimpses of acting we get, this film will
                    >consist of two hours of Aragorn wandering tediously through the woods,
                    >looking as if he's about to say, "Be vewy quiet! I'm hunting wabbits!"
                  • Michael Cunningham
                    I have been in touch with the two main producers of this project, primarily as a fan and because this independent has been receiving some very positive
                    Message 9 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                      I have been in touch with the two main producers of this project, primarily
                      as a fan and because this independent has been receiving some very positive
                      coverage in several genre-related magazines. Naively or otherwise I thought
                      this to be a number of Tolkien aficionados with a cinematic and stage
                      background (and therefore some knowledge of copyright issues) expressing
                      their appreciation for the professor's works and, to a degree, Jackson's
                      cinematic interpretation of such. The producers are aware of these concerns
                      re copyright but raised the issue of the 'fan film' which may inhabit its
                      own genre and as such not fall under the legal remit of a large scale,
                      widely distributed, money making enterprise.

                      It's certainly not going to win any Oscars (or praise, it seems) but in
                      conversation with those involved the over-riding factor is that they are
                      purely fans and the feature is a labour of love and affection for a masterly
                      work that fires a creative spark in many of the folk who explore the world
                      between its pages.

                      I've pasted the response from the producers who sought to address the
                      copyright issue.

                      Michael

                      -----
                      I appreciate your editor's concern and he might be right. We haven't heard
                      anything from The Tolkien Estate but I can't see that we pose them any
                      serious threat. Hopefully we're helping to keep Tolkien's work alive. Anyway
                      this is question we get asked a lot and it's very important to make clear
                      that we feel there isn't a serious issue here. Let me explain why. The film
                      is non-profit and we're just a bunch of Tolkien fans making this in our
                      spare time as a labour of love. Here is an FAQ that explains more. It's also
                      worth noting that since many Star Wars "fan films" have been made and widely
                      publicised, the fan film has become recognised internationally as a genre in
                      itself.

                      How are you managing to make this with characters created by Tolkien when
                      the intellectual property rights are held elsewhere?
                      A very fair point. The answer is that we are a non-commercial film club and
                      the project is entirely non-profit. We certainly do not intend to breach
                      legal copyright and if we were to sell the finished film or anything related
                      to it then this would indeed be illegal. However this project is non-profit
                      and any videos and media generated will always be available freely and
                      openly over the internet. Nobody is or ever will be profiting financially
                      from this project. No products are being made or sold. The project is funded
                      by the fans who are taking part in it, a group of individuals collaborating
                      for fun. We're working on this project based on Lord of the Rings because we
                      love the material and as a way to showcase our technical film making skills.
                      If the copyright owners are concerned, then legally speaking we plead that
                      we are only a bunch of Tolkien fans practicing our film-making skills and
                      documenting the results online.

                      ------------
                    • Croft, Janet B.
                      Being a non-profit doesn’t automatically give you free reign to do as you please with other folks’ copyrighted material, which is how they appear to be
                      Message 10 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                        Being a non-profit doesn’t automatically give you free reign to do as you please with other folks’ copyrighted material, which is how they appear to be approaching this project. However, it can have weight in a Four Factors of Fair Use analysis, which is what they should sit down and do before the Estate or Saul Zantz or New Line takes notice of them. They should at least become more familiar with the vocabulary of fair use, and not rely solely on being non-profit to protect themselves.

                        Janet Brennan Croft

                        From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Cunningham
                        Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:19 PM
                        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: New LotR-based movie: The Hunt for Gollum


                        I have been in touch with the two main producers of this project, primarily
                        as a fan and because this independent has been receiving some very positive
                        coverage in several genre-related magazines. Naively or otherwise I thought
                        this to be a number of Tolkien aficionados with a cinematic and stage
                        background (and therefore some knowledge of copyright issues) expressing
                        their appreciation for the professor's works and, to a degree, Jackson's
                        cinematic interpretation of such. The producers are aware of these concerns
                        re copyright but raised the issue of the 'fan film' which may inhabit its
                        own genre and as such not fall under the legal remit of a large scale,
                        widely distributed, money making enterprise.

                        It's certainly not going to win any Oscars (or praise, it seems) but in
                        conversation with those involved the over-riding factor is that they are
                        purely fans and the feature is a labour of love and affection for a masterly
                        work that fires a creative spark in many of the folk who explore the world
                        between its pages.

                        I've pasted the response from the producers who sought to address the
                        copyright issue.

                        Michael

                        -----
                        I appreciate your editor's concern and he might be right. We haven't heard
                        anything from The Tolkien Estate but I can't see that we pose them any
                        serious threat. Hopefully we're helping to keep Tolkien's work alive. Anyway
                        this is question we get asked a lot and it's very important to make clear
                        that we feel there isn't a serious issue here. Let me explain why. The film
                        is non-profit and we're just a bunch of Tolkien fans making this in our
                        spare time as a labour of love. Here is an FAQ that explains more. It's also
                        worth noting that since many Star Wars "fan films" have been made and widely
                        publicised, the fan film has become recognised internationally as a genre in
                        itself.

                        How are you managing to make this with characters created by Tolkien when
                        the intellectual property rights are held elsewhere?
                        A very fair point. The answer is that we are a non-commercial film club and
                        the project is entirely non-profit. We certainly do not intend to breach
                        legal copyright and if we were to sell the finished film or anything related
                        to it then this would indeed be illegal. However this project is non-profit
                        and any videos and media generated will always be available freely and
                        openly over the internet. Nobody is or ever will be profiting financially
                        from this project. No products are being made or sold. The project is funded
                        by the fans who are taking part in it, a group of individuals collaborating
                        for fun. We're working on this project based on Lord of the Rings because we
                        love the material and as a way to showcase our technical film making skills.
                        If the copyright owners are concerned, then legally speaking we plead that
                        we are only a bunch of Tolkien fans practicing our film-making skills and
                        documenting the results online.

                        ------------



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Steven Sams
                        Where would the bridge film material come from again? What stories? Thanks, Steven [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Message 11 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                          Where would the bridge film material come from again? What stories?



                          Thanks,



                          Steven









                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Michael Cunningham
                          Possibly they should have been mindful of the Damnatus outcome. Intellectual property issues are rarely black and white and may see this project slip into the
                          Message 12 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                            Possibly they should have been mindful of the Damnatus outcome. Intellectual property issues are rarely black and white and may see this project slip into the Dead Marshes.

                            Michael


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Croft, Janet B.
                            To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:36 PM
                            Subject: RE: [mythsoc] Re: New LotR-based movie: The Hunt for Gollum


                            Being a non-profit doesn’t automatically give you free reign to do as you please with other folks’ copyrighted material, which is how they appear to be approaching this project. However, it can have weight in a Four Factors of Fair Use analysis, which is what they should sit down and do before the Estate or Saul Zantz or New Line takes notice of them. They should at least become more familiar with the vocabulary of fair use, and not rely solely on being non-profit to protect themselves.

                            Janet Brennan Croft

                            From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Cunningham
                            Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:19 PM
                            To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: New LotR-based movie: The Hunt for Gollum


                            I have been in touch with the two main producers of this project, primarily
                            as a fan and because this independent has been receiving some very positive
                            coverage in several genre-related magazines. Naively or otherwise I thought
                            this to be a number of Tolkien aficionados with a cinematic and stage
                            background (and therefore some knowledge of copyright issues) expressing
                            their appreciation for the professor's works and, to a degree, Jackson's
                            cinematic interpretation of such. The producers are aware of these concerns
                            re copyright but raised the issue of the 'fan film' which may inhabit its
                            own genre and as such not fall under the legal remit of a large scale,
                            widely distributed, money making enterprise.

                            It's certainly not going to win any Oscars (or praise, it seems) but in
                            conversation with those involved the over-riding factor is that they are
                            purely fans and the feature is a labour of love and affection for a masterly
                            work that fires a creative spark in many of the folk who explore the world
                            between its pages.

                            I've pasted the response from the producers who sought to address the
                            copyright issue.

                            Michael

                            -----
                            I appreciate your editor's concern and he might be right. We haven't heard
                            anything from The Tolkien Estate but I can't see that we pose them any
                            serious threat. Hopefully we're helping to keep Tolkien's work alive. Anyway
                            this is question we get asked a lot and it's very important to make clear
                            that we feel there isn't a serious issue here. Let me explain why. The film
                            is non-profit and we're just a bunch of Tolkien fans making this in our
                            spare time as a labour of love. Here is an FAQ that explains more. It's also
                            worth noting that since many Star Wars "fan films" have been made and widely
                            publicised, the fan film has become recognised internationally as a genre in
                            itself.

                            How are you managing to make this with characters created by Tolkien when
                            the intellectual property rights are held elsewhere?
                            A very fair point. The answer is that we are a non-commercial film club and
                            the project is entirely non-profit. We certainly do not intend to breach
                            legal copyright and if we were to sell the finished film or anything related
                            to it then this would indeed be illegal. However this project is non-profit
                            and any videos and media generated will always be available freely and
                            openly over the internet. Nobody is or ever will be profiting financially
                            from this project. No products are being made or sold. The project is funded
                            by the fans who are taking part in it, a group of individuals collaborating
                            for fun. We're working on this project based on Lord of the Rings because we
                            love the material and as a way to showcase our technical film making skills.
                            If the copyright owners are concerned, then legally speaking we plead that
                            we are only a bunch of Tolkien fans practicing our film-making skills and
                            documenting the results online.

                            ------------


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                            No virus found in this incoming message.
                            Checked by AVG.
                            Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.7.1/1688 - Release Date: 24/09/2008 06:29

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Sarah Beach
                            The problem with the filmmakers citing the STAR WARS fanfilms as precedent is that Lucasfilm actually ALLOWS them to be made. Heck, Lucasfilm even sponsors a
                            Message 13 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                              The problem with the filmmakers citing the STAR WARS fanfilms as
                              precedent is that Lucasfilm actually ALLOWS them to be made. Heck,
                              Lucasfilm even sponsors a Star Wars fanfic film (short) award at the
                              San Diego ComicCon each year. So it is NOT a good example of "Well,
                              if they can do it, so can we in this other property's playground."

                              Alas, I think the filmmakers, though they may be "pure-hearted", are
                              a bit naive about the possible ramifications.

                              I do hope that if something does get stirred up about it all, they
                              come through unscathed.

                              --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Cunningham" <vargeisa@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > I have been in touch with the two main producers of this project,
                              primarily
                              > as a fan and because this independent has been receiving some very
                              positive
                              > coverage in several genre-related magazines. Naively or otherwise I
                              thought
                              > this to be a number of Tolkien aficionados with a cinematic and
                              stage
                              > background (and therefore some knowledge of copyright issues)
                              expressing
                              > their appreciation for the professor's works and, to a degree,
                              Jackson's
                              > cinematic interpretation of such. The producers are aware of these
                              concerns
                              > re copyright but raised the issue of the 'fan film' which may
                              inhabit its
                              > own genre and as such not fall under the legal remit of a large
                              scale,
                              > widely distributed, money making enterprise.
                              >
                              > It's certainly not going to win any Oscars (or praise, it seems)
                              but in
                              > conversation with those involved the over-riding factor is that
                              they are
                              > purely fans and the feature is a labour of love and affection for a
                              masterly
                              > work that fires a creative spark in many of the folk who explore
                              the world
                              > between its pages.
                              >
                              > I've pasted the response from the producers who sought to address
                              the
                              > copyright issue.
                              >
                              > Michael
                              >
                              > -----
                              > I appreciate your editor's concern and he might be right. We
                              haven't heard
                              > anything from The Tolkien Estate but I can't see that we pose them
                              any
                              > serious threat. Hopefully we're helping to keep Tolkien's work
                              alive. Anyway
                              > this is question we get asked a lot and it's very important to make
                              clear
                              > that we feel there isn't a serious issue here. Let me explain why.
                              The film
                              > is non-profit and we're just a bunch of Tolkien fans making this in
                              our
                              > spare time as a labour of love. Here is an FAQ that explains more.
                              It's also
                              > worth noting that since many Star Wars "fan films" have been made
                              and widely
                              > publicised, the fan film has become recognised internationally as a
                              genre in
                              > itself.
                              >
                              > How are you managing to make this with characters created by
                              Tolkien when
                              > the intellectual property rights are held elsewhere?
                              > A very fair point. The answer is that we are a non-commercial film
                              club and
                              > the project is entirely non-profit. We certainly do not intend to
                              breach
                              > legal copyright and if we were to sell the finished film or
                              anything related
                              > to it then this would indeed be illegal. However this project is
                              non-profit
                              > and any videos and media generated will always be available freely
                              and
                              > openly over the internet. Nobody is or ever will be profiting
                              financially
                              > from this project. No products are being made or sold. The project
                              is funded
                              > by the fans who are taking part in it, a group of individuals
                              collaborating
                              > for fun. We're working on this project based on Lord of the Rings
                              because we
                              > love the material and as a way to showcase our technical film
                              making skills.
                              > If the copyright owners are concerned, then legally speaking we
                              plead that
                              > we are only a bunch of Tolkien fans practicing our film-making
                              skills and
                              > documenting the results online.
                              >
                              > ------------
                              >
                            • David Bratman
                              ... If they think this, they have mistaken probably too small to be worth suing for legally immune from being sued. They are also fantastically kidding
                              Message 14 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                                >From: Michael Cunningham <vargeisa@...> wrote:

                                >The producers are aware of these concerns
                                >re copyright but raised the issue of the 'fan film' which may inhabit its
                                >own genre and as such not fall under the legal remit of a large scale,
                                >widely distributed, money making enterprise.

                                If they think this, they have mistaken "probably too small to be worth suing" for "legally immune from being sued." They are also fantastically kidding themselves if they don't realize that posting something on the open Web is not a synonym for "wide distribution."

                                And you quote them:

                                >We haven't heard
                                >anything from The Tolkien Estate but I can't see that we pose them any
                                >serious threat. Hopefully we're helping to keep Tolkien's work alive.

                                This is amazingly arrogant. The Tolkien Estate and their legal licensees get to decide what's to be released to keep Tolkien's work alive. Fan film makers don't get to decide that.


                                >The answer is that we are a non-commercial film club and
                                >the project is entirely non-profit. We certainly do not intend to breach
                                >legal copyright and if we were to sell the finished film or anything related
                                >to it then this would indeed be illegal. However this project is non-profit
                                >and any videos and media generated will always be available freely and
                                >openly over the internet.

                                This is so inaccurate it's not even funny. Disavowing any intention of making a profit is not a "break copyright free" card.

                                >If the copyright owners are concerned, then legally speaking we plead that
                                >we are only a bunch of Tolkien fans practicing our film-making skills and
                                >documenting the results online.

                                Doing whatever you like with Tolkien's characters privately, for your own amusement, is one thing. Documenting it online is quite another. If that's really their intent, they should make up their own Tolkienesque story and film that. If they didn't do that because nobody would watch it, that only proves how much they're piggybacking on Tolkien's fame. It might seen, or even be, silly to worry that this little film could harm Tolkien's reputation and future earnings, but again: they don't get to decide that.
                              • John D Rateliff
                                ... Thanks for posting the link, Ellen. News to me that any such project was in the works, much less that it was nearing completion. As for whether they can
                                Message 15 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                                  On Sep 23, 2008, at 4:58 AM, Ellen wrote:
                                  > My question is this: can the filmmakers get away with blatantly
                                  > using Tolkien's world and characters in a movie?

                                  Thanks for posting the link, Ellen. News to me that any such project
                                  was in the works, much less that it was nearing completion.
                                  As for whether they can get away with this, I wdn't bet on it.
                                  It's one thing to post a piece of fan fiction; the Estate might be
                                  willing to let that pass. But a film is something else, and Tolkien
                                  Enterprises is famous for bringing the hammer down on anything that
                                  poaches on their turf. Nor are major studios like New Line inclined
                                  to turn a blind eye to competition in any shape or form. I think
                                  they've probably taken the Lovecraft independent film phenomenon as a
                                  model, not taking into account that Lovecraft's work is out of
                                  copyright. Then too, the $30 donation in return for a cd somewhat
                                  undercuts the 'not-for-profit' claim.
                                  And wasn't there someone else a while back working on a
                                  Tolkienesque film?

                                  Jason Fisher <visualweasel@...> wrote:
                                  > Actually, the visuals in the trailer are quite impressive. As is
                                  > the music . . . Though I will say the clips from the soundtrack
                                  > sound *strikingly* like Howard Shore!

                                  It was pretty clear that their goal was to make their piece seem as
                                  much like Jackson as possible, right down to the sweep across snow-
                                  covered mountains. Hence, the Shore-like music (which I thought they
                                  did a better job on with the first clip than the second). I was
                                  impressed by how beautiful the natural settings were; someone in the
                                  project has a good eye for cinematography.


                                  David Bratman wrote:
                                  > Have you noticed how nearly all fan-art depictions of LOTR
                                  > characters now look like Jackson's actors, whether the artist meant
                                  > to depict them or not?

                                  No, I hadn't, but that very issue (film-inspired art) is being
                                  debated in the latest AMON HEN (#213).


                                  On Sep 24, 2008, at 11:20 AM, Steven Sams wrote:
                                  > Where would the bridge film material come from again? What stories?


                                  Presumably from the Appendices. I'm sure they'd love to use material
                                  from UNFINISHED TALES, but they'd have to negotiate a separate
                                  license from the Estate to do that (unlikely, I shd think).

                                  On Sep 24, 2008, at 11:25 AM, Michael Cunningham wrote:
                                  > Possibly they should have been mindful of the Damnatus outcome.

                                  Ouch!. I'd forgotten that one. Good example.

                                  On Sep 24, 2008, at 9:19 AM, ccampboyle wrote:
                                  > If you check their website more carefully, you'll see this is not
                                  > feature-length; it's a 30 minute short.


                                  I'd missed the detail of thirty minutes, but they do refer to it
                                  several times as a short, so it's definitely not a full-length movie.


                                  On Sep 24, 2008, at 9:33 AM, David Bratman wrote:
                                  > I'm sorry; my eyes glazed over from the clips. Concern for
                                  > continued personal health caused me to stop there.


                                  Sorry to hear it; get well soon.

                                  --John R.
                                • WendellWag@aol.com
                                  There s really no point in us discussing this. They re violating copyright law, but it s not our job to enforce the law. Somebody here notify the Tolkien
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                                    There's really no point in us discussing this. They're violating copyright
                                    law, but it's not our job to enforce the law. Somebody here notify the
                                    Tolkien estate about this website. The estate will decide how to proceed against
                                    these people. Our discussing this accomplishes nothing.

                                    Wendell Wagner



                                    **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
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                                  • aveeris523@aol.com
                                    If by the bridge film you mean the connection between The Hobbit and LOTR , the essay The Quest of Erebor in Unfinished Tales might be a good start. Steve
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Sep 24, 2008
                                      If by the "bridge film" you mean the connection between The Hobbit and LOTR ,
                                      the essay "The Quest of Erebor" in Unfinished Tales might be a good start.
                                      Steve Gaddis


                                      **************
                                      Looking for simple solutions to your real-life
                                      financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information,
                                      tips and calculators.
                                      (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)


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                                    • Michael Cunningham
                                      Not my intention to linger on this but...another fan film in production was highlighted to me: http://www.bornofhope.com/index.html They have a disclaimer, but
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Sep 25, 2008
                                        Not my intention to linger on this but...another fan film in production was highlighted to me: http://www.bornofhope.com/index.html

                                        They have a disclaimer, but that may be all it is. I suppose one may be looking towards a stated case being published if any legal action is taken to prevent future enterprises. As for me I think I'll just stick to music!

                                        Michael


                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: WendellWag@...
                                        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 4:08 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] New LotR-based movie: The Hunt for Gollum


                                        There's really no point in us discussing this. They're violating copyright
                                        law, but it's not our job to enforce the law. Somebody here notify the
                                        Tolkien estate about this website. The estate will decide how to proceed against
                                        these people. Our discussing this accomplishes nothing.

                                        Wendell Wagner

                                        **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
                                        challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
                                        calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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                                      • William Cloud Hicklin
                                        ... The Hobbit and LOTR , ... be a good start. ... Except, Steve, New Line/Time Warner/Zaentz have *no* rights to Unfinished Tales, nor to any other Tolkien
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Sep 25, 2008
                                          --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, aveeris523@... wrote:
                                          >
                                          > If by the "bridge film" you mean the connection between
                                          The Hobbit and LOTR ,
                                          > the essay "The Quest of Erebor" in Unfinished Tales might
                                          be a good start.
                                          > Steve Gaddis
                                          >
                                          >

                                          Except, Steve, New Line/Time Warner/Zaentz have *no* rights
                                          to Unfinished Tales, nor to any other Tolkien writings
                                          outside the covers of The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.
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