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Re: Inspiration the other direction?

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  • Merlin DeTardo
    ...
    Message 1 of 4 , May 10, 2008
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      >>---"Morlin Saarinen" <ebadams2000@...> wrote:
      << Specifically, I am thinking of "Beowulf: The Monsters and the
      Critics" essay. Is it possible that it was the experience of writing
      what would become "The Silmarillion" that gave Tolkien the insight that
      revolutionized Beowulf scholarship? >>

      Can you be more specific? What in the "Silmarillion" are you thinking
      of, that might have influenced the "Beowulf" essay?

      It has certainly been argued that "On Fairy-Stories" grew from
      Tolkien's experience writing fiction, and I vaguely remember that there
      may be something similar written about "The Monsters and the Critics",
      but nothing in particular is leaping to mind. Maybe Randel Helms, in
      _Tolkien's World_? (However, Helms wouldn't have been discussing _The
      Silmarillion_, which hadn't yet been published.)

      -Merlin DeTardo
    • Morlin Saarinen
      ... writing ... that ... thinking ... there ... Critics , ... in ... _The ... As I understand it, prior to Tolkien, the norm for Beowulf scholarship was to
      Message 2 of 4 , May 11, 2008
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        --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Merlin DeTardo" <emptyD@...> wrote:
        >
        > >>---"Morlin Saarinen" <ebadams2000@> wrote:
        > << Specifically, I am thinking of "Beowulf: The Monsters and the
        > Critics" essay. Is it possible that it was the experience of
        writing
        > what would become "The Silmarillion" that gave Tolkien the insight
        that
        > revolutionized Beowulf scholarship? >>
        >
        > Can you be more specific? What in the "Silmarillion" are you
        thinking
        > of, that might have influenced the "Beowulf" essay?
        >
        > It has certainly been argued that "On Fairy-Stories" grew from
        > Tolkien's experience writing fiction, and I vaguely remember that
        there
        > may be something similar written about "The Monsters and the
        Critics",
        > but nothing in particular is leaping to mind. Maybe Randel Helms,
        in
        > _Tolkien's World_? (However, Helms wouldn't have been discussing
        _The
        > Silmarillion_, which hadn't yet been published.)
        >
        > -Merlin DeTardo
        >


        As I understand it, prior to Tolkien, the norm for "Beowulf"
        scholarship was to concentrate on the possibly historical elements
        and de-emphasize the fantastical elements. Tolkien realized that the
        fantastical elements were as central to the story as anything else,
        and that the whole poem should be examined as a whole, unified epic.
        It seems not unlikely to me that he may have come to this realization
        while writing his own epic(the pre-Silmarillion writings), in which
        one certainly would not be able to ignore the fantastical and
        understand anything of it.
      • David Emerson
        ... Coincidentally, I was just finishing re-reading Verlyn Flieger s Interrupted Music when I read this query. Near the end of her book she quotes The
        Message 3 of 4 , May 12, 2008
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          >We are all familiar with how Tolkien's scholarship influenced his
          >fiction, but recently a thought occurred to me: Is it possible that the
          >influence went the other direction as well?
          >
          >Specifically, I am thinking of "Beowulf: The Monsters and the Critics"
          >essay. Is it possible that it was the experience of writing what would
          >become "The Silmarillion" that gave Tolkien the insight that
          >revolutionized Beowulf scholarship?

          Coincidentally, I was just finishing re-reading Verlyn Flieger's "Interrupted Music" when I read this query. Near the end of her book she quotes "The Monsters and the Critics" where JRRT says:

          "It [Beowulf] is a poem by a learned man writing of old times, who looking back on the heroism and sorrow feels in them something permanent and something symbolical."

          Flieger then points out that the same could have been said about Tolkien himself. Quoting a further passage, she says: "...his own mythology is meant to give its readers 'the illusion of surveying a past, pagan but noble and fraught with deep significance -- a past that itself had depth and reached backward into a dark antiquity of sorrow.'"

          Coupling this observation with the knowledge that JRRT began work on the legendarium decades before he delivered that Andrew Lang lecture, it certainly seems *possible* that he had drawn on his own experience of his attempts at telling a story meant to be perceived as already ancient, and possibly projected his own feelings about it onto the unknown Beowulf poet.

          Nothing can be proven, of course, but it's a plausible speculation.

          emerdavid

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