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Re: [mythsoc] . . . not on topic

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  • James Jones
    ... It does but I always got the impression that the oliphaunt in Middle Earth, much like an elephant to someone who lived in Europe, was something exotic.
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 11, 2008
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      --- David Emerson <emerdavid@...> wrote:

      > >... de Camp asked Tolkien why, if it was based on
      > Europe many
      > >thousands of years ago, his Middle-earth lacked the
      > megafauna of that
      > >era.
      >
      > Does the oliphaunt fall under the category of
      > "megafauna"?
      >

      It does but I always got the impression that the
      oliphaunt in Middle Earth, much like an elephant to
      someone who lived in Europe, was something exotic.

      Actually, it's interesting because if you look at a
      map of Middle Earth, pretty much everything east of
      the Iron Hills and south of Gondor fell into the realm
      of the exotic and fantastic, that being the Harad and
      Rhun.

      James J.

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    • John D Rateliff
      ... Yes indeed; it s clearly both some form of mastodon or mammoth AND the beastiary elephant at one and the same time. But it s clearly long since vanished
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 11, 2008
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        On Apr 11, 2008, at 11:21 AM, David Emerson wrote:
        >> ... de Camp asked Tolkien why, if it was based on Europe many
        >> thousands of years ago, his Middle-earth lacked the megafauna of
        >> that era.
        > Does the oliphaunt fall under the category of "megafauna"?

        Yes indeed; it's clearly both some form of mastodon or mammoth AND
        the beastiary elephant at one and the same time. But it's clearly
        long since vanished from the North-West, remembered only from
        traveller's tales like Sam's rhyme.
        It's worth pointing out, though, that de Camp seems to forget
        about the wolves, which can get pretty big (especially in Middle-
        earth!). And of course if we include The Hobbit we get huge bears as
        well. But most of the lands the Fellowship crosses seem to lack
        anything bigger than a fox, which is entirely appropriate to England
        in the last century or so but not like the older world; I assume from
        all the bear-baiting that there were still wild bears in England in
        Shakespeare's time, and wolves lasted until sometime in the medieval
        era (both are certainly well-represented in the continental folk-
        tales of the Grimms and Perrault).
        --JDR
      • Carl F. Hostetter
        ... There is nothing cheap about them, sirrah! They cost $12.50 each -- just like the mercury-laden fluorescent light-bulbs Congress is mandating -- PLUS a
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 11, 2008
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          On Apr 11, 2008, at 2:04 PM, John D Rateliff wrote:
          > all the cheap sneers at Gore
          >

          There is nothing cheap about them, sirrah! They cost $12.50 each --
          just like the mercury-laden fluorescent light-bulbs Congress is
          mandating -- PLUS a mandatory $20 carbon-credit per pack of 6!
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