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Re: The Hobbit's relation to the legendarium, redux

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  • William Cloud Hicklin
    ... stage wherein Tolkien ... the connections between ... Quenta Silm. (HME.V. ... Yes, especially when coupled with notes in the August 1939 papers (HME VI)
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 18, 2008
      --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, John D Rateliff
      <sacnoth@...> wrote:
      >
      > On Mar 13, 2008, at 7:41 PM, William Cloud
      Hicklin wrote:
      > > And that would accord with the passing
      stage wherein Tolkien
      > > identified Moria with ancient Nogrod.
      >
      > Yes; I overlooked that part* when discussing
      the connections between
      > Thorin's people and the Indrafangs of Belegost.
      >
      > *I assume you mean the passage in the 1937
      Quenta Silm. (HME.V.
      > 274)?--how I love the HME Index volume.
      >
      > Many thanks for drawing this to my attention.
      >


      Yes, especially when coupled with notes in the
      August 1939 papers (HME VI) which create the
      strong impression that Moria was to be reached
      by first crossing the Mountains and then
      journeying southward, just like Nogrod. Given
      T's vacillations as to which Mansions the
      Longbeards were associated with, it all makes
      sense.

      JDR has made a very convincing case that The
      Hobbit began set in something resembling the
      geography of the Silmarillion, with the
      Erydwethion and Sirion more-or-less as placed,
      with Mirkwood/Taur-nu-Fuin beyond. But I
      suspect there was also an intermediate stage,
      where Tolkien realized that the Long Lake-Erebor
      geography didn't fit at all, and so the
      Mountains became in his mind the Ered Luin, and
      marked the "Edge of the Wild," the terra
      incognito beyond the theater of the legendarium.
      Even Thorin's callig Bilbo "child of the kindly
      West," i.e. 'civilised' Beleriand, would fit
      this hypothesis.
    • William Cloud Hicklin
      Addendum: It s worth noting that Hadhodrond and Nogrod are just alternate Sindarin translations of Dwarf- mine or Dwarrowdelf, although T covered his tracks by
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 18, 2008
        Addendum:

        It's worth noting that Hadhodrond and Nogrod are
        just alternate Sindarin translations of Dwarf-
        mine or Dwarrowdelf, although T covered his
        tracks by re-glossing Nogrod as Hollowbold.
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