Re: [mythsoc] Re: The Hobbit's relation to the legendarium, redux
- On Mar 13, 2008, at 7:41 PM, William Cloud Hicklin wrote:
> And that would accord with the passing stage wherein TolkienYes; I overlooked that part* when discussing the connections between
> identified Moria with ancient Nogrod.
Thorin's people and the Indrafangs of Belegost.
*I assume you mean the passage in the 1937 Quenta Silm. (HME.V.
274)?--how I love the HME Index volume.
Many thanks for drawing this to my attention.
- --- In email@example.com, John D Rateliff
> On Mar 13, 2008, at 7:41 PM, William Cloud
> > And that would accord with the passingstage wherein Tolkien
> > identified Moria with ancient Nogrod.the connections between
> Yes; I overlooked that part* when discussing
> Thorin's people and the Indrafangs of Belegost.Quenta Silm. (HME.V.
> *I assume you mean the passage in the 1937
> 274)?--how I love the HME Index volume.Yes, especially when coupled with notes in the
> Many thanks for drawing this to my attention.
August 1939 papers (HME VI) which create the
strong impression that Moria was to be reached
by first crossing the Mountains and then
journeying southward, just like Nogrod. Given
T's vacillations as to which Mansions the
Longbeards were associated with, it all makes
JDR has made a very convincing case that The
Hobbit began set in something resembling the
geography of the Silmarillion, with the
Erydwethion and Sirion more-or-less as placed,
with Mirkwood/Taur-nu-Fuin beyond. But I
suspect there was also an intermediate stage,
where Tolkien realized that the Long Lake-Erebor
geography didn't fit at all, and so the
Mountains became in his mind the Ered Luin, and
marked the "Edge of the Wild," the terra
incognito beyond the theater of the legendarium.
Even Thorin's callig Bilbo "child of the kindly
West," i.e. 'civilised' Beleriand, would fit
It's worth noting that Hadhodrond and Nogrod are
just alternate Sindarin translations of Dwarf-
mine or Dwarrowdelf, although T covered his
tracks by re-glossing Nogrod as Hollowbold.