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Re: [mythsoc] Re: The Killing Blow(s)

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  • aveeris523@aol.com
    ... I definitely believe that the Barrow blade had to be there: the text in both Vol. I, chap. VIII (Fog on the Barrow Downs) and Vol. III, Chapter V (The
    Message 1 of 25 , Feb 18, 2008
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      In a message dated 2/18/08 8:27:18 AM, visualweasel@... writes:


      > A) Eowyn can strike him because she is "no living man"
      > > and thus fulfills the terms of the prophecy ("not by the
      > > hand of man will he fall").
      > >
      > > (B) Eowyn can strike him because Merry's stroke with
      > > the Arnorian blade "[broke] the spell that knit his unseen
      > > sinews to his will".
      > >
      > > I'd suggest A+B (both/and rather than either/or).
      >
      > I would add that Merry is also "no living *man*" but is rather a hobbit.
      > Always seeming to be left out of the old tales and lists, hobbits are another
      > technicality that I could see fulfilling Glorfindel's prophecy that "not by the
      > hand of man will he fall."
      >
      > Would either blow by itself have been sufficient? We don't know, but I like
      > the symmetry of the combined death blow by two people both defending Théoden,
      > both of whom were directed to stay behind but, because of their love for
      > their lord, would not stay out of the battle. Like Pippin and Merry being
      > allowed to join the Fellowship, this is another example of how the most unexpected
      > people can sometimes do the most important things.
      >
      > Jason
      >
      I definitely believe that the Barrow blade had to be there: the text in
      both Vol. I, chap. VIII
      (Fog on the Barrow Downs) and Vol. III, Chapter V (The Battle of Pelennor
      Fields) clearly suggest that the blades were made to fight against the Witch
      King (the Lord of the Nazgul). The enchanted blade was needed to undo the magic
      that held the Witch King's body together, making him vulnerable (mortal?)-the
      next blow he would take could then kill him. In neither case was he killed by a
      man, Merry or Eowyn, but it took them both to completely destroy him. Merry
      wasn't in any shape to attack a second time.
      Merry, along with the other three hobbits, was given a Barrow blade by
      Tom Bombadil; they were made in the wars against the Witch King thousands of
      years earlier. Even though the war had been lost long ago, the vehicle for
      revenge still waited to finish the job, in the form of four matching daggers
      carried by the unwitting hobbits. When they faced off against the five Nazgul on
      Weathertop, the hobbits were all armed with enchanted daggers that could have
      undone the Lord of the Nazgul (the Witch King) and perhaps the other Nazgul as
      well! I have wondered if it was not just hearing the holy name of Elbereth, but
      the Arnorian dagger in Frodo's hand (he wouldn't be given Sting until later at
      Rivendel), stabbing the ringwraith's cloak but missing his foot that scared
      him off.

      "My name is Eowyn Eomundsdottir-You killed my uncle-Prepare to die!"
      (any ladies out there planning a Dernhelm/Eowyn costume for a Masquerade may
      feel free to use this)

      Steve Gaddis


      **************
      Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL
      Living.

      (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Merlin DeTardo
      ...
      Message 2 of 25 , Feb 18, 2008
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        >--- aveeris523@... wrote:
        << Merry, along with the other three hobbits, was given a Barrow-
        blade by Tom Bombadil; they were made in the wars against the Witch-
        king thousands of years earlier. Even though the war had been lost
        long ago, the vehicle for revenge still waited to finish the job, in
        the form of four matching daggers carried by the unwitting hobbits.
        When they faced off against the five Nazgul on Weathertop, the
        hobbits were all armed with enchanted daggers that could have undone
        the Lord of the Nazgul (the Witch-king) and perhaps the other Nazgul
        as well! I have wondered if it was not just hearing the holy name of
        Elbereth, but the Arnorian dagger in Frodo's hand (he wouldn't be
        given Sting until later at Rivendell), stabbing the Ringwraith's
        cloak but missing his foot that scared him off. >>


        Indeed four of the five Black Riders hang back at Weathertop, two of
        them halting only when Frodo draws his sword, which has a red glow
        when seen in the wraith-world. (Frodo's was the only one of the four
        daggers drawn: the other hobbits, and Strider, were holding "longer
        sticks" to be lit on fire as needed.) In the "Hunt for the Ring"
        notes published in Wayne Hammond and Christina Scull's _The Lord of
        the Rings: A Reader's Companion_ (see their annotations for "A Knife
        in the Dark" and "Flight to the Ford") Tolkien writes a bit more
        about the behavior of the Riders at Weathertop. The Witch-
        king's "shrill cry" as he stabs Frodo is actually a note of alarm: he
        recognizes that Frodo's blade could harm him. He is also worried by
        Frodo's very possession of such a sword, which means that Frodo is
        powerful enough to have overcome a Barrow-wight. The Witch-king's
        fear is the cause of the Riders' retreat that evening, explaining why
        they didn't stay to finish the job or monitor the Ring's movements.
        The two cries that Strider and the hobbits hear as they cross the
        road the next morning ("a cold voice calling and a cold voice
        answering") are apparently not a report on the Ring's position -- one
        at least is the Witch-king, having collected his wits, summoning his
        companions to join him and renew the pursuit. By then it's too late,
        as Strider has got his party under cover in the thickets.

        -Merlin DeTardo
      • Doug Kane
        Tolkien has some interesting things to say about this in his letters. In his letter to Forest Ackerman about Zimmerman s proposed movie script, talking about
        Message 3 of 25 , Feb 18, 2008
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          Tolkien has some interesting things to say about this in his letters. In his letter to Forest Ackerman about Zimmerman's proposed movie script, talking about Weathertop, (Letter 210) he seems to clearly imply that Merry's blow did not destroy the Witchking, only made him fall over:

          "There is no fight. Sam does not 'sink his blade into the Ringwraith's thigh', nor does his thrust save Frodo's life. (If he had, the results would have been much the same as in III 117-20.4: the Wraith would have fallen down and the sword would have been destroyed.)"

          Even more telling is what the footnote describing the scene at III 117-20says:

          "4 The slaying of the Lord of the Nazgûl by Éowyn."

          This footnote, of course was written not by Tolkien himself but by Carpenter and/or Christopher Tolkien. Still, there are many people more qualified than those two to interpret Tolkien's works. I agree with this interpretation; Merry's blow with the barrow-blade "[broke] the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will" causing him to fall over, and allowing Eowyn to strike the final blow.

          However, it is technically incorrect to say that either Merry or Eowyn delivered the "killing blow" because the Witchking was not actually killed. Tolkien clarified in a note to letter 246 that the Witchking was not actually killed; rather he "had been reduced to impotence". He was still bound to the ring, and I believe that in truth he was not "killed" until the same time that the other Nazgul were "killed", namely when the One Ring was destroyed.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Doug Kane
          Needless to say, in my previous post, referring to Carpenter and Christopher Tolkien, I meant to say there are NOT many people more qualified than those two
          Message 4 of 25 , Feb 18, 2008
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            Needless to say, in my previous post, referring to Carpenter and Christopher Tolkien, I meant to say "there are NOT many people more qualified than those two to interpret Tolkien's works" and I inadvertantly left the "not" out.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Grace Donaldson
            ... of ... four ... holding longer ... of ... Knife ... he ... by ... why ... movements. That makes sense. It seems clear, too, that Aragorn/Strider didn t
            Message 5 of 25 , Feb 18, 2008
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              > Indeed four of the five Black Riders hang back at Weathertop, two
              of
              > them halting only when Frodo draws his sword, which has a red glow
              > when seen in the wraith-world. (Frodo's was the only one of the
              four
              > daggers drawn: the other hobbits, and Strider, were
              holding "longer
              > sticks" to be lit on fire as needed.) In the "Hunt for the Ring"
              > notes published in Wayne Hammond and Christina Scull's _The Lord
              of
              > the Rings: A Reader's Companion_ (see their annotations for "A
              Knife
              > in the Dark" and "Flight to the Ford") Tolkien writes a bit more
              > about the behavior of the Riders at Weathertop. The Witch-
              > king's "shrill cry" as he stabs Frodo is actually a note of alarm:
              he
              > recognizes that Frodo's blade could harm him. He is also worried
              by
              > Frodo's very possession of such a sword, which means that Frodo is
              > powerful enough to have overcome a Barrow-wight. The Witch-king's
              > fear is the cause of the Riders' retreat that evening, explaining
              why
              > they didn't stay to finish the job or monitor the Ring's
              movements.

              That makes sense. It seems clear, too, that Aragorn/Strider didn't
              realize on Weathertop that the four hobbits had such blades; his
              comment about Frodo doing no more harm than cutting of the hem of
              the Witch-king's cloak because "his undead flesh could not be
              wounded by an ordinary blade" reveals his ignorance of just what
              kind of blade Frodo possessed. (sorry; I'm roughly translating back
              into English from an electronic text I have, as I don't have my book
              with me, so my wording may not be accurate).

              While Tom Bombadil pointed out to the hobbits who made these blades
              and some of the power in them, it would seem that the hobbits were
              not yet connecting the dots to realize that the "Witch-king of
              Angmar" from so many years ago was the very same Captain of the
              Black Riders who was following them.

              For their sakes, it's a pity that they didn't realize the power they
              possessed in these blades; for ours, it's good because the story
              might have ended sooner!

              Grace
            • David Emerson
              ... This line evoked outright sustained laughter. Ell owe ell, as the young folks say. emerdavid ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A
              Message 6 of 25 , Feb 18, 2008
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                >"My name is Eowyn Eomundsdottir-You killed my uncle-Prepare to die!"

                This line evoked outright sustained laughter. Ell owe ell, as the young folks say.

                emerdavid

                ________________________________________
                PeoplePC Online
                A better way to Internet
                http://www.peoplepc.com
              • Croft, Janet B.
                This needs to be on a t-shirt - perhaps I ll do one for my Café Press shop! If the originator doesn t mind... Janet ________________________________ From:
                Message 7 of 25 , Feb 18, 2008
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                  This needs to be on a t-shirt - perhaps I'll do one for my Café Press shop! If the originator doesn't mind...


                  Janet

                  ________________________________
                  From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson
                  Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 3:34 PM
                  To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: The Killing Blow(s)


                  >"My name is Eowyn Eomundsdottir-You killed my uncle-Prepare to die!"

                  This line evoked outright sustained laughter. Ell owe ell, as the young folks say.

                  emerdavid

                  ________________________________________
                  PeoplePC Online
                  A better way to Internet
                  http://www.peoplepc.com



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • aveeris523@aol.com
                  ... Please grant my idea immortality! You have our gratitude! Steve Gaddis ************** Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
                  Message 8 of 25 , Feb 18, 2008
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                    In a message dated 2/18/08 2:00:06 PM, jbcroft@... writes:


                    > This needs to be on a t-shirt - perhaps I'll do one for my Café Press shop!
                    > If the originator doesn't mind...
                    >
                    > Janet
                    >
                    Please grant my idea immortality! You have our gratitude!

                    Steve Gaddis



                    **************
                    Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.

                    (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
                    2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Diane Joy Baker
                    I want one! Preferably with a good drawing of Eowyn in action. ... From: Croft, Janet B. To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 4:59 PM
                    Message 9 of 25 , Feb 18, 2008
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                      I want one! Preferably with a good drawing of Eowyn in action.

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Croft, Janet B.
                      To: 'mythsoc@yahoogroups.com'
                      Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 4:59 PM
                      Subject: RE: [mythsoc] Re: The Killing Blow(s)


                      This needs to be on a t-shirt - perhaps I'll do one for my Café Press shop! If the originator doesn't mind...

                      Janet

                      ________________________________
                      From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson
                      Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 3:34 PM
                      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: The Killing Blow(s)

                      >"My name is Eowyn Eomundsdottir-You killed my uncle-Prepare to die!"

                      This line evoked outright sustained laughter. Ell owe ell, as the young folks say.

                      emerdavid

                      ________________________________________
                      PeoplePC Online
                      A better way to Internet
                      http://www.peoplepc.com

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Grace Donaldson
                      Me too!!! ... Press shop! If the originator doesn t mind... ... On Behalf Of David Emerson ... die!
                      Message 10 of 25 , Feb 18, 2008
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                        Me too!!!

                        --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Diane Joy Baker" <dbaker021@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > I want one! Preferably with a good drawing of Eowyn in action.
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: Croft, Janet B.
                        > To: 'mythsoc@yahoogroups.com'
                        > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 4:59 PM
                        > Subject: RE: [mythsoc] Re: The Killing Blow(s)
                        >
                        >
                        > This needs to be on a t-shirt - perhaps I'll do one for my Café
                        Press shop! If the originator doesn't mind...
                        >
                        > Janet
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com]
                        On Behalf Of David Emerson
                        > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 3:34 PM
                        > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: The Killing Blow(s)
                        >
                        > >"My name is Eowyn Eomundsdottir-You killed my uncle-Prepare to
                        die!"
                      • Lynn Maudlin
                        Thank you! This is always struck me as a weakness, why were they scared off so easily on Weathertop - you ve connected the dots I didn t recognize. {grin} --
                        Message 11 of 25 , Feb 18, 2008
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                          Thank you! This is always struck me as a weakness, why were they
                          scared off so 'easily' on Weathertop - you've connected the dots I
                          didn't recognize. {grin}

                          -- Lynn --

                          --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Merlin DeTardo" <emptyD@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > >--- aveeris523@ wrote:
                          > << Merry, along with the other three hobbits, was given a Barrow-
                          > blade by Tom Bombadil; they were made in the wars against the Witch-
                          > king thousands of years earlier. Even though the war had been lost
                          > long ago, the vehicle for revenge still waited to finish the job, in
                          > the form of four matching daggers carried by the unwitting hobbits.
                          > When they faced off against the five Nazgul on Weathertop, the
                          > hobbits were all armed with enchanted daggers that could have undone
                          > the Lord of the Nazgul (the Witch-king) and perhaps the other Nazgul
                          > as well! I have wondered if it was not just hearing the holy name of
                          > Elbereth, but the Arnorian dagger in Frodo's hand (he wouldn't be
                          > given Sting until later at Rivendell), stabbing the Ringwraith's
                          > cloak but missing his foot that scared him off. >>
                          >
                          >
                          > Indeed four of the five Black Riders hang back at Weathertop, two of
                          > them halting only when Frodo draws his sword, which has a red glow
                          > when seen in the wraith-world. (Frodo's was the only one of the four
                          > daggers drawn: the other hobbits, and Strider, were holding "longer
                          > sticks" to be lit on fire as needed.) In the "Hunt for the Ring"
                          > notes published in Wayne Hammond and Christina Scull's _The Lord of
                          > the Rings: A Reader's Companion_ (see their annotations for "A Knife
                          > in the Dark" and "Flight to the Ford") Tolkien writes a bit more
                          > about the behavior of the Riders at Weathertop. The Witch-
                          > king's "shrill cry" as he stabs Frodo is actually a note of alarm: he
                          > recognizes that Frodo's blade could harm him. He is also worried by
                          > Frodo's very possession of such a sword, which means that Frodo is
                          > powerful enough to have overcome a Barrow-wight. The Witch-king's
                          > fear is the cause of the Riders' retreat that evening, explaining why
                          > they didn't stay to finish the job or monitor the Ring's movements.
                          > The two cries that Strider and the hobbits hear as they cross the
                          > road the next morning ("a cold voice calling and a cold voice
                          > answering") are apparently not a report on the Ring's position -- one
                          > at least is the Witch-king, having collected his wits, summoning his
                          > companions to join him and renew the pursuit. By then it's too late,
                          > as Strider has got his party under cover in the thickets.
                          >
                          > -Merlin DeTardo
                          >
                        • Lynn Maudlin
                          I think you (or someone) ought to render it an appropriate paper for Mythcon this summer, too-- *hint, hint, nudge, nudge, wink, wink* -- Lynn -- ... Press
                          Message 12 of 25 , Feb 18, 2008
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                            I think you (or someone) ought to render it an appropriate paper for
                            Mythcon this summer, too-- *hint, hint, nudge, nudge, wink, wink*

                            -- Lynn --

                            --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Croft, Janet B." <jbcroft@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > This needs to be on a t-shirt - perhaps I'll do one for my Café
                            Press shop! If the originator doesn't mind...
                            >
                            >
                            > Janet
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of David Emerson
                            > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 3:34 PM
                            > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: The Killing Blow(s)
                            >
                            >
                            > >"My name is Eowyn Eomundsdottir-You killed my uncle-Prepare to die!"
                            >
                            > This line evoked outright sustained laughter. Ell owe ell, as the
                            young folks say.
                            >
                            > emerdavid
                            >
                            > ________________________________________
                            > PeoplePC Online
                            > A better way to Internet
                            > http://www.peoplepc.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • al_fariis
                            ... Carol and I were discussing this topic, and she suggested that no living man isn t just a gender/ethnic (hobbit) reference, but also it implies that a
                            Message 13 of 25 , Feb 22, 2008
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                              --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, John D Rateliff <sacnoth@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Welcome to the group, Grace.
                              >
                              > Two possibilities come to mind.
                              >
                              > (A) Eowyn can strike him because she is "no living man" and thus
                              > fulfills the terms of the prophecy ("not by the hand of man will he
                              > fall").
                              >
                              > (B) Eowyn can strike him because Merry's stroke with the Arnorian
                              > blade "[broke] the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will".
                              >
                              > I'd suggest A+B (both/and rather than either/or).
                              >
                              > --JDR
                              >
                              > On Feb 17, 2008, at 6:56 PM, Grace Donaldson wrote:
                              > > I have been rereading LOTR, and my husband and I have been puzzling
                              > > over one point: Eowyn's sword going through the head of the Captain of
                              > > the Ring Wraiths.
                              > >
                              > > We know that Merry's sword, being made long ago by men of Westernesse,
                              > > and with spells on it, was able to cut through his leg and cause him
                              > > to fall. Did this kill him? If so, why did Eowyn also strike him?
                              > > And how could Eowyn's sword, not being a blade of Westernesse, make
                              > > any difference?
                              > >
                              > > Or did Merry's blade only weaken the captain, making it possible for
                              > > Eowyn's sword through his "head" to kill him?
                              > >
                              > > All I have are my speculations above.
                              > >
                              > > --Grace Donaldson, nee Klein (I met some of you at the CS Lewis
                              > > Centennial in Wheaton in 1998, and have only recently joined this
                              > > discussion group)
                              >
                              Carol and I were discussing this topic, and she suggested that "no
                              living man" isn't just a gender/ethnic (hobbit) reference, but also it
                              implies that a single person couldn't kill the Nazgul King, "man"
                              being singular. Merry certainly wasn't in any condition to take a
                              second shot; somebody else had to deliver the killing blow. An
                              interesting point!
                            • William Cloud Hicklin
                              By an odd coincidence, I was just re-reading part of _The War of the Ring_ (HME VIII) tonight, and noticed this (by Gandalf) in a draft for The Houses of
                              Message 14 of 25 , Feb 22, 2008
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                                By an odd coincidence, I was just re-reading part
                                of _The War of the Ring_ (HME VIII) tonight, and
                                noticed this (by Gandalf) in a draft for "The
                                Houses of Healing:"

                                "But [the WK] was felled by a woman and with the
                                aid of a halfling."

                                Which strongly suggests that Eowyn was the
                                principal and Merry the accessory.
                              • John D Rateliff
                                ... Yes, I think both are necessary, and that both fulfill the conditions. In any case, Glorfindel s prophecy is true to the pattern of Irish & Welsh geases,
                                Message 15 of 25 , Feb 22, 2008
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                                  On Feb 22, 2008, at 9:13 PM, al_fariis wrote:
                                  > Carol and I were discussing this topic, and she suggested that "no
                                  > living man" isn't just a gender/ethnic (hobbit) reference, but also
                                  > it implies that a single person couldn't kill the Nazgul King,
                                  > "man" being singular. Merry certainly wasn't in any condition to
                                  > take a second shot; somebody else had to deliver the killing blow.
                                  > An interesting point!

                                  On Feb 22, 2008, at 9:50 PM, William Cloud Hicklin wrote:
                                  > By an odd coincidence, I was just re-reading part of _The War of
                                  > the Ring_ (HME VIII) tonight, and noticed this (by Gandalf) in a
                                  > draft for "The Houses of Healing:"
                                  >
                                  > "But [the WK] was felled by a woman and with the aid of a halfling."
                                  >
                                  > Which strongly suggests that Eowyn was the principal and Merry the
                                  > accessory.

                                  Yes, I think both are necessary, and that both fulfill the
                                  conditions. In any case, Glorfindel's prophecy is true to the pattern
                                  of Irish & Welsh geases, which tend to be torturously complicated --
                                  there's the famous case of one in Welsh lore that's so complex the
                                  hero's wife says she can't follow it and gets him to demonstrate the
                                  exact position he's not allowed to be in -- whereupon her lover
                                  pounces on him, with disastrous consequences to them all.

                                  --JDR
                                • Lynn Maudlin
                                  ... It reminds me of Samson and Delilah (which means woman of the night in Hebrew! gotta love those Hebrew names) when she asks, Please tell me where your
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Feb 24, 2008
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                                    --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, John D Rateliff <sacnoth@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >In any case, Glorfindel's prophecy is true to the pattern
                                    > of Irish & Welsh geases, which tend to be torturously complicated --
                                    > there's the famous case of one in Welsh lore that's so complex the
                                    > hero's wife says she can't follow it and gets him to demonstrate the
                                    > exact position he's not allowed to be in -- whereupon her lover
                                    > pounces on him, with disastrous consequences to them all.


                                    It reminds me of Samson and Delilah (which means "woman of the night"
                                    in Hebrew! gotta love those Hebrew names) when she asks, "Please tell
                                    me where your great strength is and how you may be bound to afflict
                                    you." Yikes!!! some girlfriend...

                                    -- Lynn --
                                  • David Emerson
                                    ... Delilah she climbed up on Samson s knee, Said, Tell me where your strength lies, if you please. And she spoke so fine, and she spoke so fair, Samson
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Feb 25, 2008
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                                      >It reminds me of Samson and Delilah (which means "woman of the night"
                                      >in Hebrew! gotta love those Hebrew names) when she asks, "Please tell
                                      >me where your great strength is and how you may be bound to afflict
                                      >you."

                                      "Delilah she climbed up on Samson's knee,
                                      Said, 'Tell me where your strength lies, if you please.'
                                      And she spoke so fine, and she spoke so fair,
                                      Samson said, 'Delilah, you can cut off my hair,
                                      You can shave my head as clean as my hand,
                                      My strength come as natural as any old man.'"
                                      -Rev. Gary Davis

                                      emerdavid

                                      ________________________________________
                                      PeoplePC Online
                                      A better way to Internet
                                      http://www.peoplepc.com
                                    • Croft, Janet B.
                                      I m no pen-and-ink artist and if I tried to draw Éowyn fighting the Witch-king from scratch it would look pretty pitiful. But I ve got something using the
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Feb 25, 2008
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                                        I'm no pen-and-ink artist and if I tried to draw Éowyn fighting the Witch-king from scratch it would look pretty pitiful. But I've got something using the quote up on my CafePress shop site now: http://www.cafepress.com/mrlibn/2825968. (Also a few other SF and fantasy related items there, if you're interested...) And I am going to try another movie mash-up design, which I'll tell you about if it works.

                                        Speaking of mash-ups, let me dust off this one I did for a challenge on Making Light and see who gets the reference:

                                        Éomer's hand slapped down hard upon the table. "Good God, woman, where have you been?" he cried furiously.
                                        A morbid lunacy overtook her. She smiled fiercely at him, and held up the bag. "Shopping."
                                        For a second, her brother nearly believed her; conflicting expressions whiplashed over his face, astonishment, disbelief, then anger as it penetrated he was being mocked.
                                        "Want to see what I bought?" Éowyn continued, still floating. She yanked the bag's top open and rolled the giant beast's head out across the table. Fortunately, it had stopped leaking some hours back. It stopped face up before him, beak gaping, drying eyes staring. The iron crown rolled clanking across the table and came to rest across the severed neck. Merry, grimly proud of his key role in stage-managing this historic moment in one-upmanship, laid the barrow swordhilt on the table as further evidence.
                                        Faramir was perfect. His eyes widened only briefly, then he rested his chin on his hands and gazed at her with an expression of cool interest. "But of course," he breathed. "Every swordmaiden of Rohan goes to Minas Tirith to shop."
                                        "I paid too much for it," Éowyn confessed.
                                        "That, too, is traditional."






                                        Janet

                                        ________________________________
                                        From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Maudlin
                                        Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 11:42 PM
                                        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: [mythsoc] Re: The Killing Blow(s)


                                        I think you (or someone) ought to render it an appropriate paper for
                                        Mythcon this summer, too-- *hint, hint, nudge, nudge, wink, wink*

                                        -- Lynn --

                                        --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:mythsoc%40yahoogroups.com>, "Croft, Janet B." <jbcroft@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > This needs to be on a t-shirt - perhaps I'll do one for my Café
                                        Press shop! If the originator doesn't mind...
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Janet
                                        >
                                        > ________________________________
                                        > From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:mythsoc%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:mythsoc%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                                        Behalf Of David Emerson
                                        > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 3:34 PM
                                        > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com<mailto:mythsoc%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: The Killing Blow(s)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > >"My name is Eowyn Eomundsdottir-You killed my uncle-Prepare to die!"
                                        >
                                        > This line evoked outright sustained laughter. Ell owe ell, as the
                                        young folks say.
                                        >
                                        > emerdavid
                                        >
                                        > ________________________________________
                                        > PeoplePC Online
                                        > A better way to Internet
                                        > http://www.peoplepc.com
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • David Emerson
                                        ... At least it wasn t a pair of Manolo s. :-) Great vignette, Janet! emerdavid ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Feb 25, 2008
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                                          >"I paid too much for it," Éowyn confessed.
                                          >"That, too, is traditional."

                                          At least it wasn't a pair of Manolo's. :-)

                                          Great vignette, Janet!



                                          emerdavid

                                          ________________________________________
                                          PeoplePC Online
                                          A better way to Internet
                                          http://www.peoplepc.com
                                        • Diane Joy Baker
                                          Even worse is that Sam (after hearing that she wanted to afflict him) actually went for it. This is a judge? She must have been some looker. ... From: Lynn
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Feb 25, 2008
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                                            Even worse is that Sam (after hearing that she wanted to afflict him) actually went for it. This is a judge? She must have been some looker.

                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: Lynn Maudlin
                                            To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 3:27 AM
                                            Subject: [mythsoc] Re: The Killing Blow(s)


                                            --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, John D Rateliff <sacnoth@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >In any case, Glorfindel's prophecy is true to the pattern
                                            > of Irish & Welsh geases, which tend to be torturously complicated --
                                            > there's the famous case of one in Welsh lore that's so complex the
                                            > hero's wife says she can't follow it and gets him to demonstrate the
                                            > exact position he's not allowed to be in -- whereupon her lover
                                            > pounces on him, with disastrous consequences to them all.

                                            It reminds me of Samson and Delilah (which means "woman of the night"
                                            in Hebrew! gotta love those Hebrew names) when she asks, "Please tell
                                            me where your great strength is and how you may be bound to afflict
                                            you." Yikes!!! some girlfriend...

                                            -- Lynn --





                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • William Cloud Hicklin
                                            ... wanted to afflict him) actually went for it. This is a judge? She must have been some looker. Apparently ol Sam had his kinky side.
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Feb 26, 2008
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                                              --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Diane Joy
                                              Baker" <dbaker021@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Even worse is that Sam (after hearing that she
                                              wanted to afflict him) actually went for it. This
                                              is a judge? She must have been some looker.


                                              Apparently ol' Sam had his kinky side.
                                            • Lynn Maudlin
                                              Samson was very *basic* in his masculinity... -- Lynn -- (BTW, Janet s cafe-press link works *if you delete the period at the end*...) ... him) actually went
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Feb 26, 2008
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                                                Samson was very *basic* in his masculinity...

                                                -- Lynn --

                                                (BTW, Janet's cafe-press link works *if you delete the period at the
                                                end*...)

                                                --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Diane Joy Baker" <dbaker021@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Even worse is that Sam (after hearing that she wanted to afflict
                                                him) actually went for it. This is a judge? She must have been some
                                                looker.
                                                >
                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > From: Lynn Maudlin
                                                > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 3:27 AM
                                                > Subject: [mythsoc] Re: The Killing Blow(s)
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, John D Rateliff <sacnoth@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > >In any case, Glorfindel's prophecy is true to the pattern
                                                > > of Irish & Welsh geases, which tend to be torturously
                                                complicated --
                                                > > there's the famous case of one in Welsh lore that's so complex the
                                                > > hero's wife says she can't follow it and gets him to demonstrate
                                                the
                                                > > exact position he's not allowed to be in -- whereupon her lover
                                                > > pounces on him, with disastrous consequences to them all.
                                                >
                                                > It reminds me of Samson and Delilah (which means "woman of the night"
                                                > in Hebrew! gotta love those Hebrew names) when she asks, "Please tell
                                                > me where your great strength is and how you may be bound to afflict
                                                > you." Yikes!!! some girlfriend...
                                                >
                                                > -- Lynn --
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
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