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Re: Genesis 1: "Good" or "Very Good"? (was Re: Pullman)

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  • Jason Fisher
    ... LOL! :) ... I m afraid I don t know enough Hebrew to make any sort of judgment of the quality of the translation myself. Perhaps Alana or someone else can
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 17, 2007
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      > Wow, that's a particularly horrid attempt at interlinear
      > translation.

      LOL! :)

      > The point, however, stands.

      I'm afraid I don't know enough Hebrew to make any sort of judgment of the quality of the translation myself. Perhaps Alana or someone else can recommend a better one (online or off).

      Jason
    • Alana Vincent
      This one looks reasonably decent, as long as you ignore the accompanying sidebar NIV translation:
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 17, 2007
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        This one looks reasonably decent, as long as you ignore the accompanying
        sidebar NIV translation:
        http://www.amazon.com/Interlinear-NIV-Hebrew-English-Old-Testament/dp/031040200X

        At least it doesn't reverse the Hebrew word-order while leaving the
        letter-order exactly the same. It also doesn't provide a pronounciation key,
        though, which I imagine may be a drawback.

        Alana

        On Dec 17, 2007 5:13 PM, Jason Fisher <visualweasel@...> wrote:

        > > Wow, that's a particularly horrid attempt at interlinear
        > > translation.
        >
        > LOL! :)
        >
        > > The point, however, stands.
        >
        > I'm afraid I don't know enough Hebrew to make any sort of judgment of the
        > quality of the translation myself. Perhaps Alana or someone else can
        > recommend a better one (online or off).
        >
        > Jason
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Lynn Maudlin
        Larry, according to the Hebrew accessible through BlueLetterBible.org, the only place it appears in Genesis 1 is verse 31... doesn t appear again until Gen.
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 17, 2007
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          Larry, according to the Hebrew accessible through
          BlueLetterBible.org, the only place it appears in Genesis 1 is verse
          31... doesn't appear again until Gen. 4:5, so I'm not sure which
          translation you're looking at or if there's an error (unlikely but
          possible) with blueletterbible.org - but Gen. 2:18 does specifically
          say "it is *not good* for the man to be alone" - thus I think I
          combine the two in my head (it's scary in my head, you know?!).

          blessings,

          -- Lynn --

          --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fisher <visualweasel@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > >> Yes, particularly sex - after all, that's the only point when
          > >> God saw that it was "very good" - after woman was created
          > >> to be a suitable partner for man. {grin}
          >
          > > A minor correction here: there are 2 points when God says
          > > "very good" in Genesis 1, after the third day and after the
          sixth.
          > > In Genesis 2 when we speak of the specific creation of woman
          > > as a partner suitable for the man, there is no such declaration.
          > >
          > > That doesn't affect your point, just a "point of information" .
          >
          > Are you sure about this, Larry? Based on what I know, I don't
          think this is correct. What translation are you using? Here's an
          interlinear translation of Genesis Chapter 1, which seems to show
          that there's only one "very" after all, for the sixth day. It's
          based on the Hebrew in the Westminster Leningrad Codex. (Also, the
          Hebrew has been changed from right-to-left to left-to-right for ease
          of sublinear reading.)
          >
          > Take a look:
          > http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
          >
          > Just another "point of information". :) You're right about Genesis
          Chapter 2, though.
          >
          > Jason
          >
        • Lynn Maudlin
          Yeah, I ve gone back to your source page and only find the one Strong s H3966 (or 03966) in the chapter - in which verse did you find the first occurence?
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 17, 2007
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            Yeah, I've gone back to your source page and only find the one
            Strong's H3966 (or 03966) in the chapter - in which verse did you
            find the first occurence?

            thanks (now puzzled),
            -- Lynn --

            --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn Maudlin" <lynnmaudlin@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Larry, according to the Hebrew accessible through
            > BlueLetterBible.org, the only place it appears in Genesis 1 is
            verse
            > 31... doesn't appear again until Gen. 4:5, so I'm not sure which
            > translation you're looking at or if there's an error (unlikely but
            > possible) with blueletterbible.org - but Gen. 2:18 does
            specifically
            > say "it is *not good* for the man to be alone" - thus I think I
            > combine the two in my head (it's scary in my head, you know?!).
            >
            > blessings,
            >
            > -- Lynn --
            >
            > --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fisher <visualweasel@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > >> Yes, particularly sex - after all, that's the only point when
            > > >> God saw that it was "very good" - after woman was created
            > > >> to be a suitable partner for man. {grin}
            > >
            > > > A minor correction here: there are 2 points when God says
            > > > "very good" in Genesis 1, after the third day and after the
            > sixth.
            > > > In Genesis 2 when we speak of the specific creation of woman
            > > > as a partner suitable for the man, there is no such
            declaration.
            > > >
            > > > That doesn't affect your point, just a "point of information" .
            > >
            > > Are you sure about this, Larry? Based on what I know, I don't
            > think this is correct. What translation are you using? Here's an
            > interlinear translation of Genesis Chapter 1, which seems to show
            > that there's only one "very" after all, for the sixth day. It's
            > based on the Hebrew in the Westminster Leningrad Codex. (Also, the
            > Hebrew has been changed from right-to-left to left-to-right for
            ease
            > of sublinear reading.)
            > >
            > > Take a look:
            > > http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
            > >
            > > Just another "point of information". :) You're right about
            Genesis
            > Chapter 2, though.
            > >
            > > Jason
            > >
            >
          • Larry Swain
            I stand corrected. What I SHOULD HAVE SAID was that there are only 2 points (and undoubtedly I ll stand to be corrected again) where God says that it is
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 18, 2007
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              I stand corrected. What I SHOULD HAVE SAID was that there are only 2 points (and undoubtedly I'll stand to be corrected again) where God says that "it is good" in the Genesis 1 account: at the end of the third day, and the end of the sixth. In the latter case, the additional "very" is present, but since humanity is created male and female and together here I don't know that we can connect it to specifically the creation of woman.

              >
              >
              > Yeah, I've gone back to your source page and only find the one
              > Strong's H3966 (or 03966) in the chapter - in which verse did you
              > find the first occurence?



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            • Jason Fisher
              ... Err, *actually* ... :) We have good with the first day, the third (twice), the fourth, the fifth, and the sixth day (both good and very good ). The
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 18, 2007
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                > I stand corrected. What I SHOULD HAVE SAID was that there
                > are only 2 points (and undoubtedly I'll stand to be corrected again)
                > where God says that "it is good" in the Genesis 1 account: at the
                > end of the third day, and the end of the sixth

                Err, *actually* ... :)

                We have "good" with the first day, the third (twice), the fourth, the fifth, and the sixth day (both "good" and "very good"). The "very" at the end of seems to apply to everything accomplished over the whole preceding six days. In other words, it's *only* the second day which isn't called "good".

                Jason
              • Larry Swain
                ... Only the light is called good, not the whole day. ... Yes ... Ok, yes ... No. Only the creation of the birds is termed good , not everything on that day
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 18, 2007
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                  > Err, *actually* ... :)
                  >
                  > We have "good" with the first day,

                  Only the light is called good, not the whole day.

                  >the third (twice),

                  Yes

                  > the fourth,

                  Ok, yes


                  > the fifth,

                  No. Only the creation of the birds is termed "good", not everything on that day or the day itself.

                  >and the sixth day (both "good" and "very good").

                  Yes





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                • Jason Fisher
                  Okay, between us, I think we ve pretty well covered it, don t you? :)
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 18, 2007
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                    Okay, between us, I think we've pretty well covered it, don't you? :)
                  • William Cloud Hicklin
                    For those who fondly remember Zork and the other great Infocom text adventures on your Commodore or Apple II: _____________________________________________
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 18, 2007
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                      For those who fondly remember Zork and the other great
                      Infocom text adventures on your Commodore or Apple II:

                      _____________________________________________

                      Infocom interactive fiction - a very old story
                      Copyright (c) 1985 by Infocom, Inc. All rights reserved.
                      THE CREATION is a trademark of Infocom, Inc.
                      Release 42 / Serial number 271828

                      Void
                      All is unformed and void; and darkness is upon the face of
                      the deep.

                      >VERSION
                      This is the Authorized Version of King James.

                      >TIME
                      It is the beginning.

                      >WHO AM I
                      You are that you are.

                      >EXAMINE DARKNESS
                      You can't see the darkness without a light!

                      >LET THERE BE LIGHT
                      Okay, there is light.

                      >EXAMINE THE LIGHT
                      It is good.

                      >DIVIDE THE LIGHT FROM THE DARKNESS
                      It is so.

                      >CALL THE LIGHT "DAY" THEN CALL THE DARKNESS "NIGHT"
                      Called.
                      Called.

                      >EXAMINE NIGHT AND DAY
                      night: There is evening.
                      day: There is morning.

                      >TIME
                      It is the first day.

                      >LET THERE BE A FIRMAMENT
                      Okay, there is a firmament.

                      >FIRMAMENT, DIVIDE THE WATERS FROM THE WATERS
                      [Which waters do you mean, the lower waters or the upper
                      waters?]

                      >LOWER
                      [Which waters do you mean, the lower waters or the upper
                      waters?]

                      >UPPER
                      It is so.

                      >CALL THE FIRMAMENT "HEAVEN"
                      Called.

                      >TIME
                      It is the second day.

                      >GATHER TOGETHER THE LOWER WATERS UNTO ONE PLACE
                      Gathered.

                      >LET THERE BE DRY LAND
                      It is so.

                      >CALL THE DRY LAND "EARTH" THEN CALL THE GATHERED WATERS
                      "SEAS"
                      Called.
                      Called.

                      >EXAMINE ALL
                      It is good.

                      >EARTH, BRING FORTH GRASS AND HERB AND FRUIT TREE
                      grass: It is so.
                      herb: It is so.
                      fruit tree: It is so.

                      >EXAMINE ALL
                      It is good.

                      >TIME
                      It is the third day.

                      >MAKE TWO GREAT LIGHTS
                      Made.

                      >GREATER LIGHT, RULE THE DAY
                      Ruled.

                      >LESSER LIGHT, RULE THE NIGHT
                      Ruled.

                      >MAKE THE STARS ALSO
                      Made.

                      >SET BOTH LIGHTS IN THE FIRMAMENT
                      Set.

                      >EXAMINE ALL
                      It is good.

                      >TIME
                      It is the fourth day.

                      >CREATE GREAT WHALES, AND ALL LIVING CREATURES IN THE
                      WATERS, AND ALL WINGED FOWL
                      whales: Made.
                      goldfish: Made.
                      sea horses: Made.
                      ...
                      rocs: Made.
                      emus: Made.

                      >EXAMINE ALL
                      It is good.

                      >CREATURES, BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY AND FILL THE WATERS
                      IN THE SEAS
                      "Okay."

                      >TIME
                      It is the fifth day.

                      >MAKE THE BEAST OF THE EARTH AND CATTLE AND ALL CREEPING
                      THINGS
                      beast: Made.
                      cattle: Made.
                      zebras: Made.
                      yaks: Made.
                      platypuses: Made.
                      ...
                      cockroaches: Made.

                      >EXAMINE ALL
                      It is good.

                      >CREATE MAN AND WOMAN IN MY OWN IMAGE
                      man: Made.
                      woman: Made.

                      >BLESS THEM
                      Blessed.

                      >THEM, BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY AND REPLENISH THE EARTH
                      AND SUBDUE IT
                      "No problem."

                      >THEM, HAVE DOMINION OVER THE FISH AND THE FOWL AND ALL
                      LIVING THINGS
                      "You got it."

                      >EXAMINE ALL
                      Behold, it is very good.

                      >TIME
                      It is the sixth day.

                      >REST
                      Time passes...

                      >TIME
                      It is the seventh day.

                      >BLESS THE SEVENTH DAY
                      Blessed.

                      >SANCTIFY IT
                      [Be specific: what object do you want to sanctify?]

                      >THE SEVENTH DAY
                      Sanctified.

                      >QUIT

                      Your score is 350 (total of 350 points), in 47 moves.
                      This gives you the rank of God.
                      Do you wish to leave the game? (Y is affirmative): >Y
                    • Jason Fisher
                      That was great! ... From: William Cloud Hicklin To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 6:37:38 PM Subject:
                      Message 10 of 14 , Dec 19, 2007
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                        That was great!


                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: William Cloud Hicklin <solicitr@...>
                        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 6:37:38 PM
                        Subject: [mythsoc] Genesis 1: "Good" or "Very Good"? (was Re: Pullman)

                        For those who fondly remember Zork and the other great
                        Infocom text adventures on your Commodore or Apple II: [...]
                      • Lynn Maudlin
                        I guess in the form of a quotation... check out: http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm? Strongs=H02896&Version=kjv which shows good 6 times
                        Message 11 of 14 , Dec 19, 2007
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                          I guess in the form of a quotation... check out:
                          http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?
                          Strongs=H02896&Version=kjv

                          which shows "good" 6 times in Genesis 1, culminating in "very good"
                          the seventh time... which is no doubt significant to those folks who
                          see the interesting pattern of sevens in scripture... <grin>
                          And "good" appears three times in Genesis 2 followed by "not good"
                          (2:18) followed by three appearances in Genesis 3; it doesn't appear
                          again until Genesis 6 with the "sons of God" and the "daughters of
                          men" weirdness... <yikes!>

                          Sorry to be pedantic but the Bible is my favorite book (more than
                          LOTR even, although that's second) and I *love* to delve into it and
                          poke around and ponder. I have friends whose eyes start to glaze
                          over, so I try not to go overboard!

                          So a joyous Advent to all--

                          -- Lynn --

                          --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Swain" <theswain@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > I stand corrected. What I SHOULD HAVE SAID was that there are
                          only 2 points (and undoubtedly I'll stand to be corrected again)
                          where God says that "it is good" in the Genesis 1 account: at the
                          end of the third day, and the end of the sixth. In the latter case,
                          the additional "very" is present, but since humanity is created male
                          and female and together here I don't know that we can connect it to
                          specifically the creation of woman.
                          >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Yeah, I've gone back to your source page and only find the one
                          > > Strong's H3966 (or 03966) in the chapter - in which verse did you
                          > > find the first occurence?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --
                          > _______________________________________________
                          > Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
                          > Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com
                          >
                          > Powered by Outblaze
                          >
                        • Lynn Maudlin
                          Thanks for that, WCH! I never knew the game... I love the conclusion!
                          Message 12 of 14 , Dec 19, 2007
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                            Thanks for that, WCH! I never knew the game... I love the conclusion!

                            --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "William Cloud Hicklin"
                            <solicitr@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > For those who fondly remember Zork and the other great
                            > Infocom text adventures on your Commodore or Apple II:
                            >
                            > _____________________________________________
                            >
                            > Infocom interactive fiction - a very old story
                            > Copyright (c) 1985 by Infocom, Inc. All rights reserved.
                            > THE CREATION is a trademark of Infocom, Inc.
                            > Release 42 / Serial number 271828
                            >
                            > ......
                            > Your score is 350 (total of 350 points), in 47 moves.
                            > This gives you the rank of God.
                            > Do you wish to leave the game? (Y is affirmative): >Y
                            >
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