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Genesis 1: "Good" or "Very Good"? (was Re: Pullman)

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  • Jason Fisher
    ... Are you sure about this, Larry? Based on what I know, I don t think this is correct. What translation are you using? Here s an interlinear translation of
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 17, 2007
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      >> Yes, particularly sex - after all, that's the only point when
      >> God saw that it was "very good" - after woman was created
      >> to be a suitable partner for man. {grin}

      > A minor correction here: there are 2 points when God says
      > "very good" in Genesis 1, after the third day and after the sixth.
      > In Genesis 2 when we speak of the specific creation of woman
      > as a partner suitable for the man, there is no such declaration.
      >
      > That doesn't affect your point, just a "point of information" .

      Are you sure about this, Larry? Based on what I know, I don't think this is correct. What translation are you using? Here's an interlinear translation of Genesis Chapter 1, which seems to show that there's only one "very" after all, for the sixth day. It's based on the Hebrew in the Westminster Leningrad Codex. (Also, the Hebrew has been changed from right-to-left to left-to-right for ease of sublinear reading.)

      Take a look:
      http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf

      Just another "point of information". :) You're right about Genesis Chapter 2, though.

      Jason
    • Alana Vincent
      Wow, that s a particularly horrid attempt at interlinear translation. The point, however, stands. Alana ... -- Alana M. Vincent BFA MA Centre for Literature,
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 17, 2007
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        Wow, that's a particularly horrid attempt at interlinear translation.

        The point, however, stands.

        Alana

        On Dec 17, 2007 4:57 PM, Jason Fisher < visualweasel@...> wrote:

        > >> Yes, particularly sex - after all, that's the only point when
        > >> God saw that it was "very good" - after woman was created
        > >> to be a suitable partner for man. {grin}
        >
        > > A minor correction here: there are 2 points when God says
        > > "very good" in Genesis 1, after the third day and after the sixth.
        > > In Genesis 2 when we speak of the specific creation of woman
        > > as a partner suitable for the man, there is no such declaration.
        > >
        > > That doesn't affect your point, just a "point of information" .
        >
        > Are you sure about this, Larry? Based on what I know, I don't think this
        > is correct. What translation are you using? Here's an interlinear
        > translation of Genesis Chapter 1, which seems to show that there's only one
        > "very" after all, for the sixth day. It's based on the Hebrew in the
        > Westminster Leningrad Codex. (Also, the Hebrew has been changed from
        > right-to-left to left-to-right for ease of sublinear reading.)
        >
        > Take a look:
        > http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
        >
        > Just another "point of information". :) You're right about Genesis Chapter
        > 2, though.
        >
        > Jason
        >
        >



        --
        Alana M. Vincent BFA MA
        Centre for Literature, Theology and the Arts
        University of Glasgow

        1/1 20 Kennoway Drive
        Glasgow
        G11 7TZ
        UK

        a.vincent.1@...
        amvhoward@...

        +44 (0)784 758 3543


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jason Fisher
        ... LOL! :) ... I m afraid I don t know enough Hebrew to make any sort of judgment of the quality of the translation myself. Perhaps Alana or someone else can
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 17, 2007
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          > Wow, that's a particularly horrid attempt at interlinear
          > translation.

          LOL! :)

          > The point, however, stands.

          I'm afraid I don't know enough Hebrew to make any sort of judgment of the quality of the translation myself. Perhaps Alana or someone else can recommend a better one (online or off).

          Jason
        • Alana Vincent
          This one looks reasonably decent, as long as you ignore the accompanying sidebar NIV translation:
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 17, 2007
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            This one looks reasonably decent, as long as you ignore the accompanying
            sidebar NIV translation:
            http://www.amazon.com/Interlinear-NIV-Hebrew-English-Old-Testament/dp/031040200X

            At least it doesn't reverse the Hebrew word-order while leaving the
            letter-order exactly the same. It also doesn't provide a pronounciation key,
            though, which I imagine may be a drawback.

            Alana

            On Dec 17, 2007 5:13 PM, Jason Fisher <visualweasel@...> wrote:

            > > Wow, that's a particularly horrid attempt at interlinear
            > > translation.
            >
            > LOL! :)
            >
            > > The point, however, stands.
            >
            > I'm afraid I don't know enough Hebrew to make any sort of judgment of the
            > quality of the translation myself. Perhaps Alana or someone else can
            > recommend a better one (online or off).
            >
            > Jason
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Lynn Maudlin
            Larry, according to the Hebrew accessible through BlueLetterBible.org, the only place it appears in Genesis 1 is verse 31... doesn t appear again until Gen.
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 17, 2007
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              Larry, according to the Hebrew accessible through
              BlueLetterBible.org, the only place it appears in Genesis 1 is verse
              31... doesn't appear again until Gen. 4:5, so I'm not sure which
              translation you're looking at or if there's an error (unlikely but
              possible) with blueletterbible.org - but Gen. 2:18 does specifically
              say "it is *not good* for the man to be alone" - thus I think I
              combine the two in my head (it's scary in my head, you know?!).

              blessings,

              -- Lynn --

              --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fisher <visualweasel@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > >> Yes, particularly sex - after all, that's the only point when
              > >> God saw that it was "very good" - after woman was created
              > >> to be a suitable partner for man. {grin}
              >
              > > A minor correction here: there are 2 points when God says
              > > "very good" in Genesis 1, after the third day and after the
              sixth.
              > > In Genesis 2 when we speak of the specific creation of woman
              > > as a partner suitable for the man, there is no such declaration.
              > >
              > > That doesn't affect your point, just a "point of information" .
              >
              > Are you sure about this, Larry? Based on what I know, I don't
              think this is correct. What translation are you using? Here's an
              interlinear translation of Genesis Chapter 1, which seems to show
              that there's only one "very" after all, for the sixth day. It's
              based on the Hebrew in the Westminster Leningrad Codex. (Also, the
              Hebrew has been changed from right-to-left to left-to-right for ease
              of sublinear reading.)
              >
              > Take a look:
              > http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
              >
              > Just another "point of information". :) You're right about Genesis
              Chapter 2, though.
              >
              > Jason
              >
            • Lynn Maudlin
              Yeah, I ve gone back to your source page and only find the one Strong s H3966 (or 03966) in the chapter - in which verse did you find the first occurence?
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 17, 2007
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                Yeah, I've gone back to your source page and only find the one
                Strong's H3966 (or 03966) in the chapter - in which verse did you
                find the first occurence?

                thanks (now puzzled),
                -- Lynn --

                --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn Maudlin" <lynnmaudlin@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Larry, according to the Hebrew accessible through
                > BlueLetterBible.org, the only place it appears in Genesis 1 is
                verse
                > 31... doesn't appear again until Gen. 4:5, so I'm not sure which
                > translation you're looking at or if there's an error (unlikely but
                > possible) with blueletterbible.org - but Gen. 2:18 does
                specifically
                > say "it is *not good* for the man to be alone" - thus I think I
                > combine the two in my head (it's scary in my head, you know?!).
                >
                > blessings,
                >
                > -- Lynn --
                >
                > --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fisher <visualweasel@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > >> Yes, particularly sex - after all, that's the only point when
                > > >> God saw that it was "very good" - after woman was created
                > > >> to be a suitable partner for man. {grin}
                > >
                > > > A minor correction here: there are 2 points when God says
                > > > "very good" in Genesis 1, after the third day and after the
                > sixth.
                > > > In Genesis 2 when we speak of the specific creation of woman
                > > > as a partner suitable for the man, there is no such
                declaration.
                > > >
                > > > That doesn't affect your point, just a "point of information" .
                > >
                > > Are you sure about this, Larry? Based on what I know, I don't
                > think this is correct. What translation are you using? Here's an
                > interlinear translation of Genesis Chapter 1, which seems to show
                > that there's only one "very" after all, for the sixth day. It's
                > based on the Hebrew in the Westminster Leningrad Codex. (Also, the
                > Hebrew has been changed from right-to-left to left-to-right for
                ease
                > of sublinear reading.)
                > >
                > > Take a look:
                > > http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
                > >
                > > Just another "point of information". :) You're right about
                Genesis
                > Chapter 2, though.
                > >
                > > Jason
                > >
                >
              • Larry Swain
                I stand corrected. What I SHOULD HAVE SAID was that there are only 2 points (and undoubtedly I ll stand to be corrected again) where God says that it is
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 18, 2007
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                  I stand corrected. What I SHOULD HAVE SAID was that there are only 2 points (and undoubtedly I'll stand to be corrected again) where God says that "it is good" in the Genesis 1 account: at the end of the third day, and the end of the sixth. In the latter case, the additional "very" is present, but since humanity is created male and female and together here I don't know that we can connect it to specifically the creation of woman.

                  >
                  >
                  > Yeah, I've gone back to your source page and only find the one
                  > Strong's H3966 (or 03966) in the chapter - in which verse did you
                  > find the first occurence?



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                • Jason Fisher
                  ... Err, *actually* ... :) We have good with the first day, the third (twice), the fourth, the fifth, and the sixth day (both good and very good ). The
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 18, 2007
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                    > I stand corrected. What I SHOULD HAVE SAID was that there
                    > are only 2 points (and undoubtedly I'll stand to be corrected again)
                    > where God says that "it is good" in the Genesis 1 account: at the
                    > end of the third day, and the end of the sixth

                    Err, *actually* ... :)

                    We have "good" with the first day, the third (twice), the fourth, the fifth, and the sixth day (both "good" and "very good"). The "very" at the end of seems to apply to everything accomplished over the whole preceding six days. In other words, it's *only* the second day which isn't called "good".

                    Jason
                  • Larry Swain
                    ... Only the light is called good, not the whole day. ... Yes ... Ok, yes ... No. Only the creation of the birds is termed good , not everything on that day
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 18, 2007
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                      > Err, *actually* ... :)
                      >
                      > We have "good" with the first day,

                      Only the light is called good, not the whole day.

                      >the third (twice),

                      Yes

                      > the fourth,

                      Ok, yes


                      > the fifth,

                      No. Only the creation of the birds is termed "good", not everything on that day or the day itself.

                      >and the sixth day (both "good" and "very good").

                      Yes





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                    • Jason Fisher
                      Okay, between us, I think we ve pretty well covered it, don t you? :)
                      Message 10 of 14 , Dec 18, 2007
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                        Okay, between us, I think we've pretty well covered it, don't you? :)
                      • William Cloud Hicklin
                        For those who fondly remember Zork and the other great Infocom text adventures on your Commodore or Apple II: _____________________________________________
                        Message 11 of 14 , Dec 18, 2007
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                          For those who fondly remember Zork and the other great
                          Infocom text adventures on your Commodore or Apple II:

                          _____________________________________________

                          Infocom interactive fiction - a very old story
                          Copyright (c) 1985 by Infocom, Inc. All rights reserved.
                          THE CREATION is a trademark of Infocom, Inc.
                          Release 42 / Serial number 271828

                          Void
                          All is unformed and void; and darkness is upon the face of
                          the deep.

                          >VERSION
                          This is the Authorized Version of King James.

                          >TIME
                          It is the beginning.

                          >WHO AM I
                          You are that you are.

                          >EXAMINE DARKNESS
                          You can't see the darkness without a light!

                          >LET THERE BE LIGHT
                          Okay, there is light.

                          >EXAMINE THE LIGHT
                          It is good.

                          >DIVIDE THE LIGHT FROM THE DARKNESS
                          It is so.

                          >CALL THE LIGHT "DAY" THEN CALL THE DARKNESS "NIGHT"
                          Called.
                          Called.

                          >EXAMINE NIGHT AND DAY
                          night: There is evening.
                          day: There is morning.

                          >TIME
                          It is the first day.

                          >LET THERE BE A FIRMAMENT
                          Okay, there is a firmament.

                          >FIRMAMENT, DIVIDE THE WATERS FROM THE WATERS
                          [Which waters do you mean, the lower waters or the upper
                          waters?]

                          >LOWER
                          [Which waters do you mean, the lower waters or the upper
                          waters?]

                          >UPPER
                          It is so.

                          >CALL THE FIRMAMENT "HEAVEN"
                          Called.

                          >TIME
                          It is the second day.

                          >GATHER TOGETHER THE LOWER WATERS UNTO ONE PLACE
                          Gathered.

                          >LET THERE BE DRY LAND
                          It is so.

                          >CALL THE DRY LAND "EARTH" THEN CALL THE GATHERED WATERS
                          "SEAS"
                          Called.
                          Called.

                          >EXAMINE ALL
                          It is good.

                          >EARTH, BRING FORTH GRASS AND HERB AND FRUIT TREE
                          grass: It is so.
                          herb: It is so.
                          fruit tree: It is so.

                          >EXAMINE ALL
                          It is good.

                          >TIME
                          It is the third day.

                          >MAKE TWO GREAT LIGHTS
                          Made.

                          >GREATER LIGHT, RULE THE DAY
                          Ruled.

                          >LESSER LIGHT, RULE THE NIGHT
                          Ruled.

                          >MAKE THE STARS ALSO
                          Made.

                          >SET BOTH LIGHTS IN THE FIRMAMENT
                          Set.

                          >EXAMINE ALL
                          It is good.

                          >TIME
                          It is the fourth day.

                          >CREATE GREAT WHALES, AND ALL LIVING CREATURES IN THE
                          WATERS, AND ALL WINGED FOWL
                          whales: Made.
                          goldfish: Made.
                          sea horses: Made.
                          ...
                          rocs: Made.
                          emus: Made.

                          >EXAMINE ALL
                          It is good.

                          >CREATURES, BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY AND FILL THE WATERS
                          IN THE SEAS
                          "Okay."

                          >TIME
                          It is the fifth day.

                          >MAKE THE BEAST OF THE EARTH AND CATTLE AND ALL CREEPING
                          THINGS
                          beast: Made.
                          cattle: Made.
                          zebras: Made.
                          yaks: Made.
                          platypuses: Made.
                          ...
                          cockroaches: Made.

                          >EXAMINE ALL
                          It is good.

                          >CREATE MAN AND WOMAN IN MY OWN IMAGE
                          man: Made.
                          woman: Made.

                          >BLESS THEM
                          Blessed.

                          >THEM, BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY AND REPLENISH THE EARTH
                          AND SUBDUE IT
                          "No problem."

                          >THEM, HAVE DOMINION OVER THE FISH AND THE FOWL AND ALL
                          LIVING THINGS
                          "You got it."

                          >EXAMINE ALL
                          Behold, it is very good.

                          >TIME
                          It is the sixth day.

                          >REST
                          Time passes...

                          >TIME
                          It is the seventh day.

                          >BLESS THE SEVENTH DAY
                          Blessed.

                          >SANCTIFY IT
                          [Be specific: what object do you want to sanctify?]

                          >THE SEVENTH DAY
                          Sanctified.

                          >QUIT

                          Your score is 350 (total of 350 points), in 47 moves.
                          This gives you the rank of God.
                          Do you wish to leave the game? (Y is affirmative): >Y
                        • Jason Fisher
                          That was great! ... From: William Cloud Hicklin To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 6:37:38 PM Subject:
                          Message 12 of 14 , Dec 19, 2007
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                            That was great!


                            ----- Original Message ----
                            From: William Cloud Hicklin <solicitr@...>
                            To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 6:37:38 PM
                            Subject: [mythsoc] Genesis 1: "Good" or "Very Good"? (was Re: Pullman)

                            For those who fondly remember Zork and the other great
                            Infocom text adventures on your Commodore or Apple II: [...]
                          • Lynn Maudlin
                            I guess in the form of a quotation... check out: http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm? Strongs=H02896&Version=kjv which shows good 6 times
                            Message 13 of 14 , Dec 19, 2007
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                              I guess in the form of a quotation... check out:
                              http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?
                              Strongs=H02896&Version=kjv

                              which shows "good" 6 times in Genesis 1, culminating in "very good"
                              the seventh time... which is no doubt significant to those folks who
                              see the interesting pattern of sevens in scripture... <grin>
                              And "good" appears three times in Genesis 2 followed by "not good"
                              (2:18) followed by three appearances in Genesis 3; it doesn't appear
                              again until Genesis 6 with the "sons of God" and the "daughters of
                              men" weirdness... <yikes!>

                              Sorry to be pedantic but the Bible is my favorite book (more than
                              LOTR even, although that's second) and I *love* to delve into it and
                              poke around and ponder. I have friends whose eyes start to glaze
                              over, so I try not to go overboard!

                              So a joyous Advent to all--

                              -- Lynn --

                              --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Swain" <theswain@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > I stand corrected. What I SHOULD HAVE SAID was that there are
                              only 2 points (and undoubtedly I'll stand to be corrected again)
                              where God says that "it is good" in the Genesis 1 account: at the
                              end of the third day, and the end of the sixth. In the latter case,
                              the additional "very" is present, but since humanity is created male
                              and female and together here I don't know that we can connect it to
                              specifically the creation of woman.
                              >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Yeah, I've gone back to your source page and only find the one
                              > > Strong's H3966 (or 03966) in the chapter - in which verse did you
                              > > find the first occurence?
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > _______________________________________________
                              > Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
                              > Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com
                              >
                              > Powered by Outblaze
                              >
                            • Lynn Maudlin
                              Thanks for that, WCH! I never knew the game... I love the conclusion!
                              Message 14 of 14 , Dec 19, 2007
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                                Thanks for that, WCH! I never knew the game... I love the conclusion!

                                --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "William Cloud Hicklin"
                                <solicitr@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > For those who fondly remember Zork and the other great
                                > Infocom text adventures on your Commodore or Apple II:
                                >
                                > _____________________________________________
                                >
                                > Infocom interactive fiction - a very old story
                                > Copyright (c) 1985 by Infocom, Inc. All rights reserved.
                                > THE CREATION is a trademark of Infocom, Inc.
                                > Release 42 / Serial number 271828
                                >
                                > ......
                                > Your score is 350 (total of 350 points), in 47 moves.
                                > This gives you the rank of God.
                                > Do you wish to leave the game? (Y is affirmative): >Y
                                >
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.