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Re: CLS, Pullman and Jewish parents

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  • Lynn Maudlin
    Marcie, I don t mean to set up a Jewish parents SHOULD anything - I simply know that *some* Jewish parents have chosen not to let their kids read Narnia and
    Message 1 of 38 , Dec 14, 2007
      Marcie, I don't mean to set up a "Jewish parents SHOULD" anything -
      I simply know that *some* Jewish parents have chosen not to let
      their kids read Narnia and others have chosen to use it to discuss
      theology, if questions arise (they don't always). And some, like
      your household, encourage reading and find it appropriate - I
      suspect that's the most common position, FWIW.

      I do believe the Rabbis are right when they say, "wherever you have
      two Jews you have three opinions"-- a quality I personally love! The
      ability to hold two true things in tension with each other; I think
      it's very related to "Israel" - grappling with God. It's a good
      thing, IMHO - and hope you had a lovely Chanukah-- I'm learning
      Hebrew (very badly, so far) and 'my' Rabbi taught us how to play
      with a dreidl last week - I never knew how to play before! My
      friends down the street did but I think their mother had instructed
      them not to corrupt the Christian kids on the block, you know?
      Sometimes hypersensitivity robs us of great experiences...

      -- Lynn --

      --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Marcie" <mgeff@...> wrote:
      >
      > Just for the record, I need to challenge this comment that Jewish
      > parents can be expected to be cautious about CSL & Narnia. Being
      > Jewish and having been brought up in a Jewish home by Jewish
      parents,
      > I can assure you that my parents had no problem with my reading
      Narnia
      > (multiple times!) as a child or with my reading CSL's adult works
      when
      > I was in college. Narnia was perceived as nothing more than a good
      > story for children and was certainly not seen as a threat to my
      > religious upbringing.
      > Speaking only for myself, my family is very open-minded about
      ideas
      > and generally we do not perceive books as something to
      be "cautious"
      > about. I can't recall my parents or any of my Jewish friends'
      parents
      > ever restricting anything that we wanted to read.
      > I also very much enjoyed Pullman's series when I read it last
      year.
      > What I take away from both CLS and Pullman are very good stories
      that
      > present interesting and important ideas, whether or not I
      personally
      > agree with them or whether or not they conform to my own beliefs.
      > Your pal in Los Angeles,
      > Marcie
      > P.S. My first draft of this message mysteriously disappeared while
      I
      > writing it; my apologies if two similar posts appear.
      >
      > > Just as I expect Jewish parents to
      > > be cautious about CSL & Narnia, I expect parents of faith to be
      > > cautious about Pullman's work.
      > >
      >
    • Marc Drayer
      I m afraid I misspelled the second URL. Here is the right one: http://credenda.org/issues/18-2liturgia.php ... tend ... of ... or ... Peter ... two ... assume
      Message 38 of 38 , Dec 16, 2007
        I'm afraid I misspelled the second URL. Here is the right one:

        http://credenda.org/issues/18-2liturgia.php


        --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Marc Drayer" <mdrayer2001@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I agree. It's a fault of modern Christian publishing, that they
        tend
        > to be so shallow and preachy, and usually languish on the shelves
        of
        > Christian bookstores. Are there no Lewises, Tolkiens, C. Williams
        or
        > Dostoyevskys left in the world? Or are Donald T. Williams and
        Peter
        > Leithard right when they say evangelicals can't write, as these
        two
        > aritcles tell us?
        >
        > Williams:
        >
        > http://doulomen.tripod.com/topics/DTWtopics_cantwrite.htm
        >
        > Leithard:
        >
        > http://credenda.org/issues/18-21iturgia.php
        >
        > Under the Mercy,
        > Marc Drayer
        >
        >
        > --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Diane Joy Baker" <dbaker021@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > I read Jenkins and LeHaye. Bleah. Cardboard characters all
        > through. Vecchh!
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: Lynn Maudlin
        > > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 6:23 PM
        > > Subject: [mythsoc] Pullman (was Re: Lucy, Galadriel, and
        > Temptation)
        > >
        > >
        > > Like Carl, I was put off by the pot-boileresque prose of the
        > LaHaye-
        > > Jenkins books (I actually read the first one - bleah - I
        assume
        > they
        > > didn't appreciably improve). And I'm also put off by folks who
        > > rewrite history but present it as true... you know, how JFK
        was
        > > assassinated by a high-powered hunting crossbow? I just hate
        all
        > > this stuff about bullets and rifles...
        > >
        > > -- Lynn --
        > >
        > > --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Carl F. Hostetter"
        <Aelfwine@>
        > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fisher <visualweasel@>
        > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Carl,
        > > > >
        > > > > > Isn't a book that is overtly _antagonistic_ to a
        worldview
        > > > > > that is held (and held dear) by a very large number of
        > > > > > people, naturally more likely to be off-putting, even
        > simply
        > > > > > in _tone_, than one that is _apologetic_ for that
        worldview
        > > > > > (and further not itself overtly antagonistic towards
        those
        > > > > > who believe otherwise) -- whether one shares that
        worldview
        > > > > > or not?
        > > > >
        > > > > Yes, I would say so, as a general rule. Although with the
        > caveat
        > > that an apologetic work
        > > > > may be perceived by some as unwelcome proselytism.
        > > >
        > > > Yes, but even so, "unwelcome proselytism" is not the same
        > thing as
        > > polemic. And whatever
        > > > Pullman says, I've been given enough reason to believe that
        > his
        > > series _is_ polemical,
        > > > particularly the third book, even by those who enjoyed the
        > series
        > > (except for the third
        > > > book, not coincidentally) and were not themselves religious.
        > > >
        > > > > Or to take a more extreme example, there is Tim LaHaye's
        > Left
        > > Behind series. I know
        > > > > these books offend many non-Christians in much the same
        way
        > > Pullman offends
        > > > > Christians (though I have not read them).
        > > >
        > > > I don't doubt it. Personally, I was "offended" by the
        > amazingly
        > > bad prose in the sample of
        > > > the first chapter of the first book that is all I've read of
        > the
        > > series.
        > > >
        > > > > And the flip side again, I know that Dan Brown's The Da
        > Vinci
        > > Code (which I hear, but do
        > > > > know first-hand, is a dreadful novel), again, offends many
        > > Christians.
        > > >
        > > > What "offended" me about this book, in addition to Brown's
        > very
        > > very bad writing, was the
        > > > bald-faced lies about actual history he told, after going
        out
        > of
        > > his way to assure his
        > > > readers that his "facts" are all true. It's one thing to
        write
        > > fictions. It's quite another to urge
        > > > your readers to believe that they are not!
        > > >
        > > > > > Further on this topic: I find it odd to see an apparent
        > > attitude
        > > > > > that a work of fiction set in another world must be
        > regarded
        > > > > > as not having anything to say about our world.
        Particularly
        > > > > > on this list!
        > > > >
        > > > > Did I say that? To whom are you responding, Carl?
        > > >
        > > > No, this was not addressed to you (that's what I tried to
        > convey,
        > > poorly, by prefixing
        > > > "further on this topic"). It was in reaction to John's
        comment
        > > earlier in the thread that:
        > > >
        > > > > I suspect others have the reverse problem with Pullman;
        they
        > > read his fantasy as if he
        > > > > were writing a realistic novel about our world, and react
        > > accordingly.
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
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