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Re: Láthspell, Gospel

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  • Adam Smith
    ... Point well-stated Jason, and I agree with much of what you have said. But what was Eden if not entrapment? (I know, that statement will probably raise the
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 11, 2007
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      > > but more than that I think it goes to free will.
      > > Scripture includes horrible stuff *in part* to show us
      > > to what base behavior human nature can sink; the
      > > spell book includes evil spells *in part* because God
      > > (and, in Narnian terms, Aslan) values freewill.
      >
      > It feels more like entrapment to me.

      Point well-stated Jason, and I agree with much of what you have said.
      But what was Eden if not entrapment? (I know, that statement will
      probably raise the ire of many.)

      One point that might be taken from this scene is that the Book of
      spells was Coriakin's and not Aslan's. Lewis may be making the point
      that ALL people, good and bad, are subject to temptation (and also to
      error, as Lucy shows shortly thereafter), except Aslan himself.

      While Lucy is tempted by the "infallible spell" of beauty - Wizards,
      as a rule, might be said to be tempted by knowledge.

      The appearance of such a spell in his Book of Spells does not
      necessarily represent an endorsement of it, merely his knowledge of
      how it is done.

      Just a few thoughts,

      Adam
    • Lynn Maudlin
      Sorry, Jason, I think I misremembered the spell that Lucy resisted (I thought it was the beauty spell? Obviously I need to re-read; it s been 5 or 6 years,
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 11, 2007
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        Sorry, Jason, I think I misremembered the spell that Lucy resisted (I
        thought it was the beauty spell? Obviously I need to re-read; it's
        been 5 or 6 years, methinks). And yes, good point that reading about
        horrible stuff in the Bible doesn't make the horrible stuff happen
        (and may even help to keep it from happening again--). Good points.

        -- Lynn --

        --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fisher <visualweasel@...> wrote:
        >
        > Before I reply, I should make this disclaimer: I am treating this
        problem as a literary one, not an issue of Christian doctrine. That
        being said ...
        >
        > > I meant to address this briefly - one could look at the
        > > Bible that way, too - there are TERRIBLE situations
        > > related in scripture, people do horrible things
        >
        > There's a huge difference, though; you can't *cause* those things to
        happen by reading them (even aloud) out of the Bible.
        >
        > > why would those be 'commemorated' by inclusion in
        > > scripture? why would God speak such disturbing and
        > > graphic analogies to Ezekiel? etc.
        >
        > The stories in the Bible are meant to be primarily instructive. I
        suppose you might try arguing the same for Coriakin's spell-book, but
        I don't find the analogy to be quite apt. Let me put it another way,
        with an example. Consider the Bible's Leviticus 19:26, which
        proscribes the practice of "divination or sorcery." Now imagine if
        Leviticus went right on to say: "For instance, do not say the
        following incantation: [ash nazg blah blah blah]." Would that be fair?
        Would it be appropriate for the incantation that earns you a one-way
        ticket to Hell to be right there on the page?
        >
        > > it may very well have been edited (the worst, most evil
        > > removed - this wasn't a *very* bad spell that Lucy resisted,
        > > after all)
        >
        > Not a bad spell?! It would have laid all Narnia, Archenland,
        Calormen, et al., to waste. Sounds pretty bad to me! :)
        >
        > > but more than that I think it goes to free will.
        > > Scripture includes horrible stuff *in part* to show us
        > > to what base behavior human nature can sink; the
        > > spell book includes evil spells *in part* because God
        > > (and, in Narnian terms, Aslan) values freewill.
        >
        > It feels more like entrapment to me.
        >
        > > Did Aslan interfere with Lucy's freewill when His image
        > > came to life? It could be argued but I prefer to think He
        > > was reminding her of deeper values that she longed to
        > > embrace, that He knew the desires of her heart better
        > > than she did.
        >
        > That sounds a bit like a dodge. I think, if you want to take the
        free will route, then yes, he did interfere.
        >
        > Jason
        >
      • Hugh Davis
        I am going to have the chance (finally) to teach an independent study on CS Lewis. I teach high school, and I have an excellent student with an avid interest
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 11, 2007
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          I am going to have the chance (finally) to teach an independent study on CS Lewis. I teach high school, and I have an excellent student with an avid interest in the works of CSL. Could members of this list who are willing to send me sample syllabi?

          Thanks in advance,

          Hugh
          _________________________________________________________________
          Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Marc Drayer
          Hmmm...The closest I can come to a syllabus is a course by the Teaching Company called The Life and Writings of C.S. Lewis by Professer Lou Markos of Houston
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 11, 2007
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            Hmmm...The closest I can come to a syllabus is a course by the
            Teaching Company called "The Life and Writings of C.S. Lewis" by
            Professer Lou Markos of Houston Baptist University. The guidebook
            which comes with it has the essential information. You can find that
            on http://www.teach12.com

            Also, you can reach Professor Markos directly at lmarkos@...

            He will be glad to help you out on this. He has done so with me.I hope
            that helps you out, Hugh. That is an excellent course, btw.

            Under the Mercy,
            Marc Drayer


            --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Hugh Davis <HughHDavis@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > I am going to have the chance (finally) to teach an independent
            study on CS Lewis. I teach high school, and I have an excellent
            student with an avid interest in the works of CSL. Could members of
            this list who are willing to send me sample syllabi?
            >
            > Thanks in advance,
            >
            > Hugh
            > _________________________________________________________________
            > Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
            > http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • John D Rateliff
            Congratulations, Hugh. Let us know how it goes. If you have access to one of the tapes of CSL reading, you shd definitely play a bit of it for your students;
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 11, 2007
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              Congratulations, Hugh. Let us know how it goes.
              If you have access to one of the tapes of CSL reading, you shd
              definitely play a bit of it for your students; there's nothing like
              hearing the actual voice of the person you're studying.
              --John R.


              On Dec 11, 2007, at 7:10 PM, Hugh Davis wrote:
              > I am going to have the chance (finally) to teach an independent
              > study on CS Lewis. I teach high school, and I have an excellent
              > student with an avid interest in the works of CSL. Could members of
              > this list who are willing to send me sample syllabi?
              >
              > Thanks in advance,
              >
              > Hugh
            • Lynn Maudlin
              you might contact Diana Glyer (author of previously discussed The Company They Keep: J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis as Writers in Community ); her website is
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 13, 2007
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                you might contact Diana Glyer (author of previously discussed "The
                Company They Keep: J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis as Writers in
                Community"); her website is {the place of the lion dot com} all run
                together, her email address is on the contact page (it will simply be
                truncated by the system here). Diana has taught quite a few Lewis
                courses at Azusa Pacific Univ. so I'm sure she'd have some great
                insight for you.

                And enjoy!

                -- Lynn --
                --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Hugh Davis <HughHDavis@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > I am going to have the chance (finally) to teach an independent
                study on CS Lewis. I teach high school, and I have an excellent
                student with an avid interest in the works of CSL. Could members of
                this list who are willing to send me sample syllabi?
                >
                > Thanks in advance,
                >
                > Hugh
                > _________________________________________________________________
                > Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
                > http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Cole Matson
                Hugh, I highly recommend having the student help create the syllabus, since it is an independent study. I did an independent study on CSL in college, and
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 13, 2007
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                  Hugh,

                  I highly recommend having the student help create the syllabus, since it is
                  an independent study. I did an independent study on CSL in college, and
                  created my own reading list, course description and requirements, and area
                  of focus, which were approved or adjusted by my professor as necessary. My
                  theme was "C.S. Lewis: The Christian Storyteller." I put together a reading
                  list of major CSL works I hadn't yet read (and a review of a few key ones I
                  had), including his fiction, apologetics, and academic work (e.g. The
                  Discarded Image). I focused on works that related to my theme, so I read a
                  lot of essays that looked at the role of literature (such as "On Stories",
                  "Sometimes Fairy Stories May Say Best What Needs to Be Said").

                  Each week, I did my self-assigned reading for the week, and wrote a one-page
                  response paper. I also kept a reading journal of my thoughts as I read,
                  which formed the basis for each week's paper. I then met with my professor
                  for about 45 minutes each week, read the paper, and then we discussed my
                  conclusions and the reading. The weekly papers helped form the basis of a
                  final 10-12 page term paper on the course's main theme. (The paper ended up
                  being on the value of fantasy literature to today's world, especially in
                  terms of moral and spiritual development.)

                  It was very much self-motivated, and I had to seek out a professor who had
                  some knowledge of Lewis. I particularly wanted one who shared his and my
                  Christian faith, so that I would be arguing about Lewis and not about
                  Christianity. As you can imagine, such a professor was difficult to find at
                  New York University, which is not known for being a bastion of faith. I
                  ended up finding one not only in a different department, but in a different
                  school within my university (Prof. Anthony Low, who specialized in Milton
                  and other medieval and Renaissance Christian literature). But I found the
                  challenge of creating my own course and carrying it out not only incredibly
                  liberating, but also incredibly fun. Since it looks like I'm not going to be
                  able to get back to graduate school for at least another year, I'm using the
                  same skills to create my own truly independent study in the meantime.

                  I'll e-mail you the syllabus I created. Best of wishes to you and your
                  student for a remarkable class!

                  Cole


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                • WendellWag@aol.com
                  In a message dated 12/14/2007 12:00:45 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ccematson@gmail.com writes: I then met with my professor for about 45 minutes each week,
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 13, 2007
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                    In a message dated 12/14/2007 12:00:45 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                    ccematson@... writes:

                    I then met with my professor
                    for about 45 minutes each week, read the paper, and then we discussed my
                    conclusions and the reading.
                    So you did a British-style tutorial, where you have to write a short paper
                    each week and read it to your tutor? That's interesting, since I would have
                    thought that was rare in the U.S. At my undergraduate school, New College in
                    Sarasota, Florida, which emphasized independent study, people frequently did
                    tutorials, but it tended to be more like going to a professor and agreeing
                    before the term started on what you would study and what work you would turn
                    in. You generally didn't go to see the professor again that much. Sometimes
                    you didn't see him again until the term was over.

                    Wendell Wagner



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                  • Cole Matson
                    Message 9 of 10 , Dec 16, 2007
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                      << So you did a British-style tutorial, where you have to write a short
                      paper
                      each week and read it to your tutor? That's interesting, since I would have
                      thought that was rare in the U.S. At my undergraduate school, New College in
                      Sarasota, Florida, which emphasized independent study, people frequently did
                      tutorials, but it tended to be more like going to a professor and agreeing
                      before the term started on what you would study and what work you would turn
                      in. You generally didn't go to see the professor again that much. Sometimes
                      you didn't see him again until the term was over.>>

                      Yes, it was similar to a British-style tutorial, by design. I haven't found
                      a U.S. school that makes tutorials common practice, and it's not SOP at NYU.
                      I remember that independent studies did require regular meetings with your
                      instructor, but I think the number and intervals of those meetings were free
                      to be set by you and the instructor (and really could have been just once at
                      the beginning and once at the end). I originally proposed meeting every
                      other week, but my professor wanted to meet weekly. If I remember correctly,
                      he was fond of the tutorial system as well (I had learned about it from
                      reading about Lewis's days at Oxford), so it was a good fit for us.

                      Cole


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