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Re: Article that mentions Tolkien

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  • Lynn Maudlin
    FWIW, I think the two are miles apart... One might read Pinkerton s article and feel he misuses JRRT but I don t think he s any further off than the folks who
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 4, 2007
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      FWIW, I think the two are miles apart...

      One might read Pinkerton's article and feel he misuses JRRT but I
      don't think he's any further off than the folks who saw Tolkien as
      "green" - he's talking about what *he* gets out of Tolkien and how he
      applies it to one of the issues of the day.

      -- Lynn --


      --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Foster" <mafoster@...> wrote:
      >
      > Berni,
      > It didn't look like a joke to me. It was a preprinted trifold one-sheet
      > pamphlet that looked serious enough to me to pass along to college
      > security. So I don't have it, and in any case, it would be one of the
      > more noisome Tolkien collectibles.
      >
      > Mike
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      > Of bernip
      > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 7:57 PM
      > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: Article that mentions Tolkien
      >
      > Mike, was it something someone had put together as a joke or did it
      > sound
      > serious? Scary if #2.
      >
      > Berni
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Mike Foster" <mafoster@hughes. <mailto:mafoster%40hughes.net>
      > net>
      >
      > This isn't quite on the order of the Ku Klux Klan pamphlet "Theoden Was
      > A White Rider" that I once found shoved underneath my office door but it
      > does point out that readers inclined to do so can bend a work of
      > literature to fit their sociopolitical template.
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Merlin DeTardo
      ...
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 4, 2007
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        >--- "Lynn Maudlin" <lynnmaudlin@...> wrote:

        << One might read Pinkerton's article and feel he misuses JRRT but I
        don't think he's any further off than the folks who saw Tolkien
        as "green"... >>


        Here's one such: Tom Shippey, in his article, "Literature, Twentieth
        Century, Influence of Tolkien", in _J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia_ (2006):

        "If he were voting today, Tolkien would certainly vote for the Green
        Party..."

        -Merlin DeTardo
      • John D Rateliff
        Thanks for the link, Wendell. I found the article itself appalling, but fascinating as an exercise in applicability . And I would have missed it altogether if
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 5, 2007
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          Thanks for the link, Wendell. I found the article itself appalling,
          but fascinating as an exercise in 'applicability'. And I would have
          missed it altogether if not for your posting.
          --JDR

          On Dec 4, 2007, at 11:31 AM, WendellWag@... wrote:

          > There's an article in the Readings section of _Harper's_ this month
          > that
          > mentions Tolkien in an interesting way. The Readings section
          > reprints writings
          > (or selections from writings) that the editors find important in
          > some way,
          > sometimes because they think it expresses a good idea, sometimes
          > because they
          > find the viewpoint horrifying. They make no comment themselves on
          > what they
          > think of it. Neither will I. It's "The Once & Future
          > Christendom" by James
          > P. Pinkerton from the September 10th issue of _The American
          > Conservative_. My
          > apologies if someone has already given a link to this.
          >
          > _http://www.amconmag.com/2007/2007_09_10/cover.html_
          > (http://www.amconmag.com/2007/2007_09_10/cover.html)
          >
          > Wendell Wagner
        • Lynn Maudlin
          Assuredly JRRT was ecologically minded but I don t know that that equals Green Party voter (which, my impression from *this* side of the pond, is fairly
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 5, 2007
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            Assuredly JRRT was ecologically minded but I don't know that that
            equals "Green Party voter" (which, my impression from *this* side of
            the pond, is fairly left-leaning in nearly all regards, yes?). But I
            could have used the example of the folks who thought that pipeweed was
            marijuana... (like Peter Jackson, perhaps?!!).

            All due respect to Tom Shippey, but I suspect Priscilla Tolkien and
            Christopher Tolkien would be better at surmising how JRRT would vote
            in today's elections.

            -- Lynn --


            --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Merlin DeTardo" <emptyD@...> wrote:
            >
            > >--- "Lynn Maudlin" <lynnmaudlin@> wrote:
            >
            > << One might read Pinkerton's article and feel he misuses JRRT but I
            > don't think he's any further off than the folks who saw Tolkien
            > as "green"... >>
            >
            >
            > Here's one such: Tom Shippey, in his article, "Literature, Twentieth
            > Century, Influence of Tolkien", in _J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia_ (2006):
            >
            > "If he were voting today, Tolkien would certainly vote for the Green
            > Party..."
            >
            > -Merlin DeTardo
            >
          • David Bratman
            I very much doubt that Tolkien would vote for the Green Party, but he was very far from being a stereotypical Tory. That his ecological views were, through a
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 5, 2007
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              I very much doubt that Tolkien would vote for the Green Party, but he was very far from being a stereotypical Tory. That his ecological views were, through a Christian viewpoint, very green with a small "g" is, I think, adequately proven by Dickerson and Evans's "Ents, Elves, and Eriador," and also supported by Curry's "Defending Middle-earth." Using "seeing Tolkien as 'green'" as any kind of measure of "offness" in Tolkien studies is, I think, unfair and mistaken. Tolkien was entirely comparatible with being "green", as long as you do not confuse that with either of 1) voting for the Green Party; 2) adopting the lifestyle of stereotypically "green" people.

              -----Original Message-----
              >From: Lynn Maudlin <lynnmaudlin@...>
              >Sent: Dec 5, 2007 9:12 PM
              >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Article that mentions Tolkien
              >
              >Assuredly JRRT was ecologically minded but I don't know that that
              >equals "Green Party voter" (which, my impression from *this* side of
              >the pond, is fairly left-leaning in nearly all regards, yes?). But I
              >could have used the example of the folks who thought that pipeweed was
              >marijuana... (like Peter Jackson, perhaps?!!).
              >
              >All due respect to Tom Shippey, but I suspect Priscilla Tolkien and
              >Christopher Tolkien would be better at surmising how JRRT would vote
              >in today's elections.
              >
              > -- Lynn --
              >
              >
              >--- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Merlin DeTardo" <emptyD@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> >--- "Lynn Maudlin" <lynnmaudlin@> wrote:
              >>
              >> << One might read Pinkerton's article and feel he misuses JRRT but I
              >> don't think he's any further off than the folks who saw Tolkien
              >> as "green"... >>
              >>
              >>
              >> Here's one such: Tom Shippey, in his article, "Literature, Twentieth
              >> Century, Influence of Tolkien", in _J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia_ (2006):
              >>
              >> "If he were voting today, Tolkien would certainly vote for the Green
              >> Party..."
              >>
              >> -Merlin DeTardo
              >>
              >
              >
            • Lynn Maudlin
              Thank you for stating it so much better than I, David. I am also a little g green so I knew what I meant, however I mangled the sense! (currently throttling
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 10, 2007
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                Thank you for stating it so much better than I, David. I am also a
                "little g green" so I knew what I meant, however I mangled the sense!
                (currently throttling words).

                -- Lynn --

                --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Bratman <dbratman@...> wrote:
                >
                > I very much doubt that Tolkien would vote for the Green Party, but
                he was very far from being a stereotypical Tory. That his ecological
                views were, through a Christian viewpoint, very green with a small "g"
                is, I think, adequately proven by Dickerson and Evans's "Ents, Elves,
                and Eriador," and also supported by Curry's "Defending Middle-earth."
                Using "seeing Tolkien as 'green'" as any kind of measure of "offness"
                in Tolkien studies is, I think, unfair and mistaken. Tolkien was
                entirely comparatible with being "green", as long as you do not
                confuse that with either of 1) voting for the Green Party; 2) adopting
                the lifestyle of stereotypically "green" people.
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > >From: Lynn Maudlin <lynnmaudlin@...>
                > >Sent: Dec 5, 2007 9:12 PM
                > >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                > >Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Article that mentions Tolkien
                > >
                > >Assuredly JRRT was ecologically minded but I don't know that that
                > >equals "Green Party voter" (which, my impression from *this* side of
                > >the pond, is fairly left-leaning in nearly all regards, yes?). But I
                > >could have used the example of the folks who thought that pipeweed was
                > >marijuana... (like Peter Jackson, perhaps?!!).
                > >
                > >All due respect to Tom Shippey, but I suspect Priscilla Tolkien and
                > >Christopher Tolkien would be better at surmising how JRRT would vote
                > >in today's elections.
                > >
                > > -- Lynn --
                > >
                > >
                > >--- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Merlin DeTardo" <emptyD@> wrote:
                > >>
                > >> >--- "Lynn Maudlin" <lynnmaudlin@> wrote:
                > >>
                > >> << One might read Pinkerton's article and feel he misuses JRRT
                but I
                > >> don't think he's any further off than the folks who saw Tolkien
                > >> as "green"... >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> Here's one such: Tom Shippey, in his article, "Literature, Twentieth
                > >> Century, Influence of Tolkien", in _J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia_
                (2006):
                > >>
                > >> "If he were voting today, Tolkien would certainly vote for the Green
                > >> Party..."
                > >>
                > >> -Merlin DeTardo
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                >
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