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RE: [mythsoc] Re: Article that mentions Tolkien

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  • Mike Foster
    Berni, It didn t look like a joke to me. It was a preprinted trifold one-sheet pamphlet that looked serious enough to me to pass along to college security.
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 4, 2007
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      Berni,
      It didn't look like a joke to me. It was a preprinted trifold one-sheet
      pamphlet that looked serious enough to me to pass along to college
      security. So I don't have it, and in any case, it would be one of the
      more noisome Tolkien collectibles.

      Mike

      -----Original Message-----
      From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of bernip
      Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 7:57 PM
      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: Article that mentions Tolkien

      Mike, was it something someone had put together as a joke or did it
      sound
      serious? Scary if #2.

      Berni

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Mike Foster" <mafoster@hughes. <mailto:mafoster%40hughes.net>
      net>

      This isn't quite on the order of the Ku Klux Klan pamphlet "Theoden Was
      A White Rider" that I once found shoved underneath my office door but it
      does point out that readers inclined to do so can bend a work of
      literature to fit their sociopolitical template.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lynn Maudlin
      FWIW, I think the two are miles apart... One might read Pinkerton s article and feel he misuses JRRT but I don t think he s any further off than the folks who
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 4, 2007
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        FWIW, I think the two are miles apart...

        One might read Pinkerton's article and feel he misuses JRRT but I
        don't think he's any further off than the folks who saw Tolkien as
        "green" - he's talking about what *he* gets out of Tolkien and how he
        applies it to one of the issues of the day.

        -- Lynn --


        --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Foster" <mafoster@...> wrote:
        >
        > Berni,
        > It didn't look like a joke to me. It was a preprinted trifold one-sheet
        > pamphlet that looked serious enough to me to pass along to college
        > security. So I don't have it, and in any case, it would be one of the
        > more noisome Tolkien collectibles.
        >
        > Mike
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        > Of bernip
        > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 7:57 PM
        > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: Article that mentions Tolkien
        >
        > Mike, was it something someone had put together as a joke or did it
        > sound
        > serious? Scary if #2.
        >
        > Berni
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Mike Foster" <mafoster@hughes. <mailto:mafoster%40hughes.net>
        > net>
        >
        > This isn't quite on the order of the Ku Klux Klan pamphlet "Theoden Was
        > A White Rider" that I once found shoved underneath my office door but it
        > does point out that readers inclined to do so can bend a work of
        > literature to fit their sociopolitical template.
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Merlin DeTardo
        ...
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 4, 2007
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          >--- "Lynn Maudlin" <lynnmaudlin@...> wrote:

          << One might read Pinkerton's article and feel he misuses JRRT but I
          don't think he's any further off than the folks who saw Tolkien
          as "green"... >>


          Here's one such: Tom Shippey, in his article, "Literature, Twentieth
          Century, Influence of Tolkien", in _J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia_ (2006):

          "If he were voting today, Tolkien would certainly vote for the Green
          Party..."

          -Merlin DeTardo
        • John D Rateliff
          Thanks for the link, Wendell. I found the article itself appalling, but fascinating as an exercise in applicability . And I would have missed it altogether if
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 5, 2007
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            Thanks for the link, Wendell. I found the article itself appalling,
            but fascinating as an exercise in 'applicability'. And I would have
            missed it altogether if not for your posting.
            --JDR

            On Dec 4, 2007, at 11:31 AM, WendellWag@... wrote:

            > There's an article in the Readings section of _Harper's_ this month
            > that
            > mentions Tolkien in an interesting way. The Readings section
            > reprints writings
            > (or selections from writings) that the editors find important in
            > some way,
            > sometimes because they think it expresses a good idea, sometimes
            > because they
            > find the viewpoint horrifying. They make no comment themselves on
            > what they
            > think of it. Neither will I. It's "The Once & Future
            > Christendom" by James
            > P. Pinkerton from the September 10th issue of _The American
            > Conservative_. My
            > apologies if someone has already given a link to this.
            >
            > _http://www.amconmag.com/2007/2007_09_10/cover.html_
            > (http://www.amconmag.com/2007/2007_09_10/cover.html)
            >
            > Wendell Wagner
          • Lynn Maudlin
            Assuredly JRRT was ecologically minded but I don t know that that equals Green Party voter (which, my impression from *this* side of the pond, is fairly
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 5, 2007
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              Assuredly JRRT was ecologically minded but I don't know that that
              equals "Green Party voter" (which, my impression from *this* side of
              the pond, is fairly left-leaning in nearly all regards, yes?). But I
              could have used the example of the folks who thought that pipeweed was
              marijuana... (like Peter Jackson, perhaps?!!).

              All due respect to Tom Shippey, but I suspect Priscilla Tolkien and
              Christopher Tolkien would be better at surmising how JRRT would vote
              in today's elections.

              -- Lynn --


              --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Merlin DeTardo" <emptyD@...> wrote:
              >
              > >--- "Lynn Maudlin" <lynnmaudlin@> wrote:
              >
              > << One might read Pinkerton's article and feel he misuses JRRT but I
              > don't think he's any further off than the folks who saw Tolkien
              > as "green"... >>
              >
              >
              > Here's one such: Tom Shippey, in his article, "Literature, Twentieth
              > Century, Influence of Tolkien", in _J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia_ (2006):
              >
              > "If he were voting today, Tolkien would certainly vote for the Green
              > Party..."
              >
              > -Merlin DeTardo
              >
            • David Bratman
              I very much doubt that Tolkien would vote for the Green Party, but he was very far from being a stereotypical Tory. That his ecological views were, through a
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 5, 2007
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                I very much doubt that Tolkien would vote for the Green Party, but he was very far from being a stereotypical Tory. That his ecological views were, through a Christian viewpoint, very green with a small "g" is, I think, adequately proven by Dickerson and Evans's "Ents, Elves, and Eriador," and also supported by Curry's "Defending Middle-earth." Using "seeing Tolkien as 'green'" as any kind of measure of "offness" in Tolkien studies is, I think, unfair and mistaken. Tolkien was entirely comparatible with being "green", as long as you do not confuse that with either of 1) voting for the Green Party; 2) adopting the lifestyle of stereotypically "green" people.

                -----Original Message-----
                >From: Lynn Maudlin <lynnmaudlin@...>
                >Sent: Dec 5, 2007 9:12 PM
                >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Article that mentions Tolkien
                >
                >Assuredly JRRT was ecologically minded but I don't know that that
                >equals "Green Party voter" (which, my impression from *this* side of
                >the pond, is fairly left-leaning in nearly all regards, yes?). But I
                >could have used the example of the folks who thought that pipeweed was
                >marijuana... (like Peter Jackson, perhaps?!!).
                >
                >All due respect to Tom Shippey, but I suspect Priscilla Tolkien and
                >Christopher Tolkien would be better at surmising how JRRT would vote
                >in today's elections.
                >
                > -- Lynn --
                >
                >
                >--- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Merlin DeTardo" <emptyD@...> wrote:
                >>
                >> >--- "Lynn Maudlin" <lynnmaudlin@> wrote:
                >>
                >> << One might read Pinkerton's article and feel he misuses JRRT but I
                >> don't think he's any further off than the folks who saw Tolkien
                >> as "green"... >>
                >>
                >>
                >> Here's one such: Tom Shippey, in his article, "Literature, Twentieth
                >> Century, Influence of Tolkien", in _J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia_ (2006):
                >>
                >> "If he were voting today, Tolkien would certainly vote for the Green
                >> Party..."
                >>
                >> -Merlin DeTardo
                >>
                >
                >
              • Lynn Maudlin
                Thank you for stating it so much better than I, David. I am also a little g green so I knew what I meant, however I mangled the sense! (currently throttling
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 10, 2007
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                  Thank you for stating it so much better than I, David. I am also a
                  "little g green" so I knew what I meant, however I mangled the sense!
                  (currently throttling words).

                  -- Lynn --

                  --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Bratman <dbratman@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I very much doubt that Tolkien would vote for the Green Party, but
                  he was very far from being a stereotypical Tory. That his ecological
                  views were, through a Christian viewpoint, very green with a small "g"
                  is, I think, adequately proven by Dickerson and Evans's "Ents, Elves,
                  and Eriador," and also supported by Curry's "Defending Middle-earth."
                  Using "seeing Tolkien as 'green'" as any kind of measure of "offness"
                  in Tolkien studies is, I think, unfair and mistaken. Tolkien was
                  entirely comparatible with being "green", as long as you do not
                  confuse that with either of 1) voting for the Green Party; 2) adopting
                  the lifestyle of stereotypically "green" people.
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > >From: Lynn Maudlin <lynnmaudlin@...>
                  > >Sent: Dec 5, 2007 9:12 PM
                  > >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                  > >Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Article that mentions Tolkien
                  > >
                  > >Assuredly JRRT was ecologically minded but I don't know that that
                  > >equals "Green Party voter" (which, my impression from *this* side of
                  > >the pond, is fairly left-leaning in nearly all regards, yes?). But I
                  > >could have used the example of the folks who thought that pipeweed was
                  > >marijuana... (like Peter Jackson, perhaps?!!).
                  > >
                  > >All due respect to Tom Shippey, but I suspect Priscilla Tolkien and
                  > >Christopher Tolkien would be better at surmising how JRRT would vote
                  > >in today's elections.
                  > >
                  > > -- Lynn --
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >--- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Merlin DeTardo" <emptyD@> wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >> >--- "Lynn Maudlin" <lynnmaudlin@> wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >> << One might read Pinkerton's article and feel he misuses JRRT
                  but I
                  > >> don't think he's any further off than the folks who saw Tolkien
                  > >> as "green"... >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> Here's one such: Tom Shippey, in his article, "Literature, Twentieth
                  > >> Century, Influence of Tolkien", in _J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia_
                  (2006):
                  > >>
                  > >> "If he were voting today, Tolkien would certainly vote for the Green
                  > >> Party..."
                  > >>
                  > >> -Merlin DeTardo
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
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