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Re: [mythsoc] Re: Article that mentions Tolkien

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  • bernip
    Mike, was it something someone had put together as a joke or did it sound serious? Scary if #2. Berni ... From: Mike Foster This isn t
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 4, 2007
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      Mike, was it something someone had put together as a joke or did it sound
      serious? Scary if #2.

      Berni

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Mike Foster" <mafoster@...>


      This isn't quite on the order of the Ku Klux Klan pamphlet "Theoden Was
      A White Rider" that I once found shoved underneath my office door but it
      does point out that readers inclined to do so can bend a work of
      literature to fit their sociopolitical template.
    • Mike Foster
      Berni, It didn t look like a joke to me. It was a preprinted trifold one-sheet pamphlet that looked serious enough to me to pass along to college security.
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 4, 2007
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        Berni,
        It didn't look like a joke to me. It was a preprinted trifold one-sheet
        pamphlet that looked serious enough to me to pass along to college
        security. So I don't have it, and in any case, it would be one of the
        more noisome Tolkien collectibles.

        Mike

        -----Original Message-----
        From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of bernip
        Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 7:57 PM
        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: Article that mentions Tolkien

        Mike, was it something someone had put together as a joke or did it
        sound
        serious? Scary if #2.

        Berni

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Mike Foster" <mafoster@hughes. <mailto:mafoster%40hughes.net>
        net>

        This isn't quite on the order of the Ku Klux Klan pamphlet "Theoden Was
        A White Rider" that I once found shoved underneath my office door but it
        does point out that readers inclined to do so can bend a work of
        literature to fit their sociopolitical template.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Lynn Maudlin
        FWIW, I think the two are miles apart... One might read Pinkerton s article and feel he misuses JRRT but I don t think he s any further off than the folks who
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 4, 2007
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          FWIW, I think the two are miles apart...

          One might read Pinkerton's article and feel he misuses JRRT but I
          don't think he's any further off than the folks who saw Tolkien as
          "green" - he's talking about what *he* gets out of Tolkien and how he
          applies it to one of the issues of the day.

          -- Lynn --


          --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Foster" <mafoster@...> wrote:
          >
          > Berni,
          > It didn't look like a joke to me. It was a preprinted trifold one-sheet
          > pamphlet that looked serious enough to me to pass along to college
          > security. So I don't have it, and in any case, it would be one of the
          > more noisome Tolkien collectibles.
          >
          > Mike
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          > Of bernip
          > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 7:57 PM
          > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: Article that mentions Tolkien
          >
          > Mike, was it something someone had put together as a joke or did it
          > sound
          > serious? Scary if #2.
          >
          > Berni
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Mike Foster" <mafoster@hughes. <mailto:mafoster%40hughes.net>
          > net>
          >
          > This isn't quite on the order of the Ku Klux Klan pamphlet "Theoden Was
          > A White Rider" that I once found shoved underneath my office door but it
          > does point out that readers inclined to do so can bend a work of
          > literature to fit their sociopolitical template.
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Merlin DeTardo
          ...
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 4, 2007
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            >--- "Lynn Maudlin" <lynnmaudlin@...> wrote:

            << One might read Pinkerton's article and feel he misuses JRRT but I
            don't think he's any further off than the folks who saw Tolkien
            as "green"... >>


            Here's one such: Tom Shippey, in his article, "Literature, Twentieth
            Century, Influence of Tolkien", in _J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia_ (2006):

            "If he were voting today, Tolkien would certainly vote for the Green
            Party..."

            -Merlin DeTardo
          • John D Rateliff
            Thanks for the link, Wendell. I found the article itself appalling, but fascinating as an exercise in applicability . And I would have missed it altogether if
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 5, 2007
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              Thanks for the link, Wendell. I found the article itself appalling,
              but fascinating as an exercise in 'applicability'. And I would have
              missed it altogether if not for your posting.
              --JDR

              On Dec 4, 2007, at 11:31 AM, WendellWag@... wrote:

              > There's an article in the Readings section of _Harper's_ this month
              > that
              > mentions Tolkien in an interesting way. The Readings section
              > reprints writings
              > (or selections from writings) that the editors find important in
              > some way,
              > sometimes because they think it expresses a good idea, sometimes
              > because they
              > find the viewpoint horrifying. They make no comment themselves on
              > what they
              > think of it. Neither will I. It's "The Once & Future
              > Christendom" by James
              > P. Pinkerton from the September 10th issue of _The American
              > Conservative_. My
              > apologies if someone has already given a link to this.
              >
              > _http://www.amconmag.com/2007/2007_09_10/cover.html_
              > (http://www.amconmag.com/2007/2007_09_10/cover.html)
              >
              > Wendell Wagner
            • Lynn Maudlin
              Assuredly JRRT was ecologically minded but I don t know that that equals Green Party voter (which, my impression from *this* side of the pond, is fairly
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 5, 2007
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                Assuredly JRRT was ecologically minded but I don't know that that
                equals "Green Party voter" (which, my impression from *this* side of
                the pond, is fairly left-leaning in nearly all regards, yes?). But I
                could have used the example of the folks who thought that pipeweed was
                marijuana... (like Peter Jackson, perhaps?!!).

                All due respect to Tom Shippey, but I suspect Priscilla Tolkien and
                Christopher Tolkien would be better at surmising how JRRT would vote
                in today's elections.

                -- Lynn --


                --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Merlin DeTardo" <emptyD@...> wrote:
                >
                > >--- "Lynn Maudlin" <lynnmaudlin@> wrote:
                >
                > << One might read Pinkerton's article and feel he misuses JRRT but I
                > don't think he's any further off than the folks who saw Tolkien
                > as "green"... >>
                >
                >
                > Here's one such: Tom Shippey, in his article, "Literature, Twentieth
                > Century, Influence of Tolkien", in _J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia_ (2006):
                >
                > "If he were voting today, Tolkien would certainly vote for the Green
                > Party..."
                >
                > -Merlin DeTardo
                >
              • David Bratman
                I very much doubt that Tolkien would vote for the Green Party, but he was very far from being a stereotypical Tory. That his ecological views were, through a
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 5, 2007
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                  I very much doubt that Tolkien would vote for the Green Party, but he was very far from being a stereotypical Tory. That his ecological views were, through a Christian viewpoint, very green with a small "g" is, I think, adequately proven by Dickerson and Evans's "Ents, Elves, and Eriador," and also supported by Curry's "Defending Middle-earth." Using "seeing Tolkien as 'green'" as any kind of measure of "offness" in Tolkien studies is, I think, unfair and mistaken. Tolkien was entirely comparatible with being "green", as long as you do not confuse that with either of 1) voting for the Green Party; 2) adopting the lifestyle of stereotypically "green" people.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  >From: Lynn Maudlin <lynnmaudlin@...>
                  >Sent: Dec 5, 2007 9:12 PM
                  >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Article that mentions Tolkien
                  >
                  >Assuredly JRRT was ecologically minded but I don't know that that
                  >equals "Green Party voter" (which, my impression from *this* side of
                  >the pond, is fairly left-leaning in nearly all regards, yes?). But I
                  >could have used the example of the folks who thought that pipeweed was
                  >marijuana... (like Peter Jackson, perhaps?!!).
                  >
                  >All due respect to Tom Shippey, but I suspect Priscilla Tolkien and
                  >Christopher Tolkien would be better at surmising how JRRT would vote
                  >in today's elections.
                  >
                  > -- Lynn --
                  >
                  >
                  >--- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Merlin DeTardo" <emptyD@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >> >--- "Lynn Maudlin" <lynnmaudlin@> wrote:
                  >>
                  >> << One might read Pinkerton's article and feel he misuses JRRT but I
                  >> don't think he's any further off than the folks who saw Tolkien
                  >> as "green"... >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Here's one such: Tom Shippey, in his article, "Literature, Twentieth
                  >> Century, Influence of Tolkien", in _J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia_ (2006):
                  >>
                  >> "If he were voting today, Tolkien would certainly vote for the Green
                  >> Party..."
                  >>
                  >> -Merlin DeTardo
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                • Lynn Maudlin
                  Thank you for stating it so much better than I, David. I am also a little g green so I knew what I meant, however I mangled the sense! (currently throttling
                  Message 8 of 12 , Dec 10, 2007
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                    Thank you for stating it so much better than I, David. I am also a
                    "little g green" so I knew what I meant, however I mangled the sense!
                    (currently throttling words).

                    -- Lynn --

                    --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Bratman <dbratman@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I very much doubt that Tolkien would vote for the Green Party, but
                    he was very far from being a stereotypical Tory. That his ecological
                    views were, through a Christian viewpoint, very green with a small "g"
                    is, I think, adequately proven by Dickerson and Evans's "Ents, Elves,
                    and Eriador," and also supported by Curry's "Defending Middle-earth."
                    Using "seeing Tolkien as 'green'" as any kind of measure of "offness"
                    in Tolkien studies is, I think, unfair and mistaken. Tolkien was
                    entirely comparatible with being "green", as long as you do not
                    confuse that with either of 1) voting for the Green Party; 2) adopting
                    the lifestyle of stereotypically "green" people.
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > >From: Lynn Maudlin <lynnmaudlin@...>
                    > >Sent: Dec 5, 2007 9:12 PM
                    > >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                    > >Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Article that mentions Tolkien
                    > >
                    > >Assuredly JRRT was ecologically minded but I don't know that that
                    > >equals "Green Party voter" (which, my impression from *this* side of
                    > >the pond, is fairly left-leaning in nearly all regards, yes?). But I
                    > >could have used the example of the folks who thought that pipeweed was
                    > >marijuana... (like Peter Jackson, perhaps?!!).
                    > >
                    > >All due respect to Tom Shippey, but I suspect Priscilla Tolkien and
                    > >Christopher Tolkien would be better at surmising how JRRT would vote
                    > >in today's elections.
                    > >
                    > > -- Lynn --
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >--- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Merlin DeTardo" <emptyD@> wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >> >--- "Lynn Maudlin" <lynnmaudlin@> wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >> << One might read Pinkerton's article and feel he misuses JRRT
                    but I
                    > >> don't think he's any further off than the folks who saw Tolkien
                    > >> as "green"... >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> Here's one such: Tom Shippey, in his article, "Literature, Twentieth
                    > >> Century, Influence of Tolkien", in _J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia_
                    (2006):
                    > >>
                    > >> "If he were voting today, Tolkien would certainly vote for the Green
                    > >> Party..."
                    > >>
                    > >> -Merlin DeTardo
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
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