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Fw: JRR Tolkien letters for sale

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  • Edith Crowe
    FYI, collectors... ... Christopher Wheeler 11/21/2007 12:04 AM To cc Subject JRR Tolkien letters
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 21, 2007
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      FYI, collectors...
      ----- Forwarded by Edith Crowe/SJSU on 11/21/2007 08:44 AM -----

      Christopher Wheeler <cwheeler62@...>
      11/21/2007 12:04 AM

      To
      <correspondence@...>
      cc

      Subject
      JRR Tolkien letters




      Greetings.

      Our father, Timothy J. Wheeler, corresponded with J.R.R. Tolkien in the
      1960s. He died recently, leaving us the correspondence and some related
      Tolkien ephemera. After much consideration, my siblings and I have elected
      to sell the lot.

      If you or anyone you know is interested, please let me know. Scans of all
      the pieces are viewable on the internet at the following URL:
      http://www.pbase.com/csw62/tolkien . (For more about our dad, visit
      http://www.pbase.com/csw62/dad ).

      The originals are with my sister in New Jersey. I would be happy to answer
      any questions to the best of my ability.

      Regards,
      ?Christopher S. Wheeler

      Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Share now!

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Larry Swain
      Might I recommend getting in touch with the Marion Wade Center at Wheaton College, Wheaton, IL or the library at Marquette University, Milwaukee, WI as
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 21, 2007
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        Might I recommend getting in touch with the Marion Wade Center at Wheaton College, Wheaton, IL or the library at Marquette University, Milwaukee, WI as appropriate places for these letters.

        Larry Swain
        >
        > FYI, collectors...
        > ----- Forwarded by Edith Crowe/SJSU on 11/21/2007 08:44 AM -----
        >
        > Christopher Wheeler <cwheeler62@...>
        > 11/21/2007 12:04 AM
        >
        > To
        > <correspondence@...>
        > cc
        >
        > Subject
        > JRR Tolkien letters
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Greetings.
        >
        > Our father, Timothy J. Wheeler, corresponded with J.R.R. Tolkien in the
        > 1960s. He died recently, leaving us the correspondence and some related
        > Tolkien ephemera. After much consideration, my siblings and I have elected
        > to sell the lot.
        >
        > If you or anyone you know is interested, please let me know. Scans of all
        > the pieces are viewable on the internet at the following URL:
        > http://www.pbase.com/csw62/tolkien . (For more about our dad, visit
        > http://www.pbase.com/csw62/dad ).
        >
        > The originals are with my sister in New Jersey. I would be happy to answer
        > any questions to the best of my ability.
        >
        > Regards,
        > ?Christopher S. Wheeler
        >
        > Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Share now!
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >

        >


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      • Vincent Ferré
        excuse-me, but do you really find these letters interesting ? tolkien says... that he won t write anything. the second letter is very funny in this respect.
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 21, 2007
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          excuse-me, but do you really find these letters interesting ? tolkien says... that he won't write anything. the second letter is very funny in this respect.

          best,
          vincent


          >Might I recommend getting in touch with the Marion Wade Center at Wheaton College, Wheaton, IL or the library at Marquette University, Milwaukee, WI as appropriate places for these letters.

          Larry Swain


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Larry Swain
          ... Vince, I only gave them a cursory glance, but the question is immaterial to my suggestion. What you and I may find mundane and uninteresting to another
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 21, 2007
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            >
            >
            > excuse-me, but do you really find these letters interesting ?
            > tolkien says... that he won't write anything. the second letter is
            > very funny in this respect.

            Vince,
            I only gave them a cursory glance, but the question is immaterial to my suggestion. What you and I may find mundane and uninteresting to another research may be the find of a lifetime. I myself am writing on a letter by an author that everyone has dismissed and I've found enough material to rewrite a number of key points in the author's career and life. I'm not saying these letters are like that, but.....

            Anyway, I'd prefer a professional archivist who deals with Tolkiena to make that determination rather than you and me.

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          • William Cloud Hicklin
            ... deals with Tolkiena to make that determination rather than you and me. ... It s certainly the case that an authentic JRRT signature, alone, is worth quite
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 21, 2007
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              --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Larry
              Swain" <theswain@...> wrote:

              > Anyway, I'd prefer a professional archivist who
              deals with Tolkiena to make that determination
              rather than you and me.
              >

              It's certainly the case that an authentic JRRT
              signature, alone, is worth quite a bit.
            • Merlin DeTardo
              ... And thus Vincent s question, I guess, and when I first saw his post, I was glad he d asked what
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 21, 2007
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                >>---"Larry Swain" <theswain@...> wrote:
                << What you and I may find mundane and uninteresting... >>

                And thus Vincent's question, I guess, and when I first saw his post,
                I was glad he'd asked what I'd initially thought: certainly the
                letters don't look like much, to my uneducated glance. But setting
                aside the letters' value as collectibles, what use might they have
                for researchers? It might be interesting to list the possibilities --
                a holiday exercise here in the U.S. There are several subscribers
                to this list who have worked with Tolkien's manuscripts: what do they
                see in these documents? I have no such expertise myself, but will
                toss out a few notes and questions.

                The first thought that occurs to me is that Scull and Hammond's
                _Chronology_ makes it possible to slot these letters more precisely
                into other events in Tolkien's life than used to be possible. The 20
                Oct. 1965 letter to Wheeler is one of at least two that Tolkien wrote
                that day; the other was to Clyde Klby. Tolkien apparently dealt with
                a glut of correspondence at that time: he was away from approximately
                5 Oct. to 15 Oct., and also suffering an infection in his arm; he
                arrived "home to find a heap of letters awaiting him", and five days
                later, Rayner Unwin wrote him that Allen & Unwin had been
                forwarding "a constant stream of fan mail" (_Chronology_, 645).

                For the date of the second letter, 10 Jan. 1966, the _Chronology_
                (652) says only that in that week, Tolkien heard from Joy Hill that
                an agreement had been reached with Donald Swann for _The Road Goes
                Ever On_.

                On 1 Aug. 1966, the date of the third letter to Wheeler, from
                Tolkien's assistant "P.M.J." (that's Phyllis M. Jenkinson --
                _Chronology_, 648), Tolkien was again writing to Kilby (671).

                Did P.M.J. type the first two letters? S&H have her as Toklien's
                secretary by 6 Dec. 1965, postdating the first letter by two months
                (648). Is "Ballantyne" in the first letter her mistake, and is that
                Tolkien's handwritten correction of "i" for "y"?

                What prompted Tolkien's postscript there, about Ace's apparent legal
                right to sell the pirated copy of _LotR_?

                What did Wheeler want Tolkien to write? What's up with Tolkien's
                comment about his "special good wishes" being of little use to
                Wheeler?

                In Wheeler's 1987 letter to Christopher Tolkien, he says he'd sent
                JRRT two essay by Jared Lobdell, from the Aug. 1966 and July-Aug.
                1967 issues of _Rally_. The items at the Wheeler web site include
                the former article, "Words That Sound Like Castles". (I was glad of
                the opportunity to read it.) The latter article is called "From
                Middle-earth to the Silent Planet", according to Judith Johnson's
                bibiography, which also reveals that Lobdell wrote a different
                article titled "Words That Sound Like Castles" for _National Review_
                in 1967.

                But among the correspondence is a carbon copy of the letter from
                Wheeler to JRRT of 22 Aug. 1966 with which he sent the Aug. 1966
                _Rally_. There is no copy of the letter he sent with the July-Aug.
                1967 issue. However, there is a response from Tolkien's secretary of
                1 Aug. 1966 thanking Wheeler for a copy of _Rally_. Either the date
                of that letter is wrong, or Wheeler sent yet another, earlier issue
                of _Rally_ to Tolkien. Does anyone know if that's correct, and if
                so, what that issue included?

                -Merlin DeTardo
              • Vincent Ferré
                that s a very clever comment, merlin :-) but there are still so many things to say about the published letters (the selection by carpenter & ch. tolkien) and
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 22, 2007
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                  that's a very clever comment, merlin :-)

                  but there are still so many things to say about the published letters (the selection by carpenter & ch. tolkien) and about the most important ones among the letters that Wayne & Christina have traced, that I am still in doubt !

                  very best wishes to all,
                  vincent

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • mwilt
                  But setting aside the letters value as collectibles, what use might they have for researchers? It might be interesting to list the possibilities -- a holiday
                  Message 8 of 15 , Nov 22, 2007
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                    But setting
                    aside the letters' value as collectibles, what use might they have
                    for researchers? It might be interesting to list the possibilities --
                    a holiday exercise here in the U.S.
                    ***

                    Far be it from me to participate in "holiday exercises" except the raising of turkey leg to mouth. :-) However:


                    ***
                    The latter article is called "From
                    Middle-earth to the Silent Planet", according to Judith Johnson's
                    bibiography, which also reveals that Lobdell wrote a different
                    article titled "Words That Sound Like Castles" for _National Review_
                    in 1967.
                    ***

                    It might be the same article? The magazine "Rally" is described as a "Triple A Farm Team for the National Review" in the obituary for Mr. Wheeler published in the National Review (see the Wheeler personal web site for the obituary here http://www.pbase.com/csw62/image/85861087). It might be the article was published in Rally in 1966 and picked up by NR in 1967?

                    mary


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Merlin DeTardo
                    Hassles, tassels, vassals... ... A friend of mine organizes a wallyball outing annually on the
                    Message 9 of 15 , Nov 22, 2007
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                      Hassles, tassels, vassals...

                      >>--- "mwilt" <mary.wilt@...> wrote:

                      << Far be it from me to participate in "holiday exercises" >>

                      A friend of mine organizes a wallyball outing annually on the day
                      after Thanksgiving; I guess I'm in the holiday exercise habit. Not
                      that it shows. (Or rather, I have the appearance of someone who only
                      exercises on the holidays.)

                      << "Lobdell wrote a different article titled 'Words That Sound Like
                      Castles' for _National Review_ in 1967."
                      It might be the same article? The magazine "Rally" is described as
                      a "Triple A Farm Team for the National Review" ... might be the
                      article was published in Rally in 1966 and picked up by NR in 1967? >>

                      Johnson describes the 1966 article this way:
                      "Praises Tolkien's creation of languages and histories for his
                      characters" (_J.R.R. Tolkien: Six Decades of Criticism_, 66).

                      Her description of the 1968 article is:
                      "Attacks Hodgart's criticism ... finds C.S. Lewis is the best Tolkien
                      critic, and suggests Tolkien's appeal is to readers who identify with
                      Tolkien's imaginative life, find echoes of their imaginations in
                      their work" (77).

                      Richard West's J.R.R. Tolkien: An Annotated Checklist_, Revised
                      Edition, explicitly says the two are "not the same" (82).

                      -Merlin DeTardo
                    • mwilt
                      You re right, of course (and you have access to better reference books, too!!) they are different. I found the National Review article, if you d care to see
                      Message 10 of 15 , Nov 22, 2007
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                        You're right, of course (and you have access to better reference books,
                        too!!) they are different. I found the National Review article, if you'd
                        care to see it. I don't know the rules for sending an entire article to the
                        list and can't link to it.

                        mary


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Merlin DeTardo
                        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:58 AM
                        Subject: [mythsoc] Re: "Words That Sound Like Castles"


                        << "Lobdell wrote a different article titled 'Words That Sound Like
                        Castles' for _National Review_ in 1967."
                        It might be the same article? The magazine "Rally" is described as
                        a "Triple A Farm Team for the National Review" ... might be the
                        article was published in Rally in 1966 and picked up by NR in 1967? >>

                        Johnson describes the 1966 article this way:
                        "Praises Tolkien's creation of languages and histories for his
                        characters" (_J.R.R. Tolkien: Six Decades of Criticism_, 66).

                        Her description of the 1968 article is:
                        "Attacks Hodgart's criticism ... finds C.S. Lewis is the best Tolkien
                        critic, and suggests Tolkien's appeal is to readers who identify with
                        Tolkien's imaginative life, find echoes of their imaginations in
                        their work" (77).

                        Richard West's J.R.R. Tolkien: An Annotated Checklist_, Revised
                        Edition, explicitly says the two are "not the same" (82).
                      • Andrew Higgins
                          Hello all.  I am currently on holiday in Portugal and I happened to come > across a rather interesting book in a local shop - its called O >
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jun 7, 2008
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                          Hello all.  I am currently on holiday in Portugal and I happened to come
                          > across a rather interesting book in a local shop - its called O
                          > Ultima Anel (The Final Ring) by a Russian Author called Kyril
                          > Yeskov.  I am in the process of studying Portuguese so my
                          > understanding of it is rather limited - but from what I can make out -
                          >  this is a Portuguese translation of a Russian book that tells the
                          > tale of the War of the Ring and aftermath from the Orcs point of
                          > view.  Orc culture is portrayed quite differntly from the information
                          > we receive through Elvish, Men and Hobbit sources and it certainly
                          > drives home the point that the victors write the histories.
                          >
                          > Be interested in knowing if anyone has read this book in any
                          > language - is it avaialble in English?  And how did the author work
                          > with the Tolkien Estate on it (or did he?).  The cover of the
                          > Portuguese edition has an illustration from Alan Lee and I have found
                          > some mention of it online - but it does not look like its been
                          > translated into English.
                          >
                          > More to come when I retrun to blighty!
                          >
                          > Thanks, Andy

                           
                           
                           















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                        • WendellWag@aol.com
                          It s completely unauthorized and certain to never be translated and published in English. The only surprising thing is that it was translated and published
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jun 7, 2008
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                            It's completely unauthorized and certain to never be translated and
                            published in English. The only surprising thing is that it was translated and
                            published in Portuguese. Copyright laws are rather loosely enforced in Russia.
                            There have been many unauthorized sequels and such to Tolkien published there.
                            (Tolkien has been quite popular in Russia since at least the early 1990's.
                            Much authorized and unauthorized Tolkien material has appeared since then.)
                            There are also sequels to other popular authors. The Tolkien estate can
                            prevent violation of copyright laws in much of the world, but it's harder work in
                            certain places like Russia. Someone here might want to notify the Tolkien
                            estate about the Portuguese edition.

                            Wendell Wagner



                            **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                            Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                            (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • WendellWag@aol.com
                            The author s name is more commonly transliterated as Kirill Eskov and the book s title is commonly given in English as The Last Ringbearer. There s a
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jun 7, 2008
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                              The author's name is more commonly transliterated as Kirill Eskov and the
                              book's title is commonly given in English as The Last Ringbearer. There's a
                              Wikipedia entry for the author. Here's an article in English about this book
                              and other Russian reactions to Tolkien:

                              _http://media.www.thespartandaily.com/media/storage/paper852/news/2004/11/10/O
                              pinioncolumnists/lord-Of.The.Rings.Spoofs.Find.A.Russian.Following-1499947.sht
                              ml_
                              (http://media.www.thespartandaily.com/media/storage/paper852/news/2004/11/10/Opinioncolumnists/lord-Of.The.Rings.Spoofs.Find.A.Russian.Following-1499947
                              .shtml)

                              Wendell Wagner



                              **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                              Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                              (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • WendellWag@aol.com
                              That URL I mentioned in the last post might not come across for many of you. Try Googling for Kirill Eskov . The webpage that I m referring to is at the
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jun 7, 2008
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                                That URL I mentioned in the last post might not come across for many of you.
                                Try Googling for "Kirill Eskov". The webpage that I'm referring to is at
                                the bottom of the first page for that Google search.

                                Wendell Wagner



                                **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                                Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                                (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Grace Donaldson
                                ... and the ... Ringbearer. There s a ... about this book ... _http://media.www.thespartandaily.com/media/storage/paper852/news/200 4/11/10/O ... 1499947.sht
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jun 11, 2008
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                                  --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, WendellWag@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > The author's name is more commonly transliterated as Kirill Eskov
                                  and the
                                  > book's title is commonly given in English as The Last
                                  Ringbearer. There's a
                                  > Wikipedia entry for the author. Here's an article in English
                                  about this book
                                  > and other Russian reactions to Tolkien:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  _http://media.www.thespartandaily.com/media/storage/paper852/news/200
                                  4/11/10/O
                                  > pinioncolumnists/lord-Of.The.Rings.Spoofs.Find.A.Russian.Following-
                                  1499947.sht
                                  > ml_
                                  >
                                  (http://media.www.thespartandaily.com/media/storage/paper852/news/200
                                  4/11/10/Opinioncolumnists/lord-
                                  Of.The.Rings.Spoofs.Find.A.Russian.Following-1499947
                                  > .shtml)

                                  Ah, yes, the Goblin translations (mrntioned in one of the
                                  articles)...there's something about a pickle that became a running
                                  joke in my class when I was teaching LOTR in Kyrgyzstan. I tried
                                  watching part of one of them, but have to confess my Russian wasn't
                                  up to it; I missed most of the jokes. But my understanding was that
                                  they were a kind of Russian "Weird Al" of films.

                                  I have an authorized Russian translation of LOTR, but was appalled
                                  to discover that a common (unauthorized) cheap paperback translation
                                  chopped off the chapters in which Frodo and Sam encounter Boromir --
                                  so my students who read that version weren't the least appalled by
                                  the slaughtering of Boromir's character that Jackson did in the film.

                                  I wasn't aware of Eskov's work; I'd be interested in struggling
                                  through it in the original; maybe if I get a copy and can make it to
                                  another Mythcon, I can provide unauthorized (and no doubt very poor)
                                  translations of it to any who want to hear.

                                  Grace
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