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Re: [mythsoc] Re: Silmarillion as beloved book of childhood

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  • Walter Padgett
    Wow. That s really heavy. That s the best thing I ve read all day. Thanks for rendering so eloquently your profound appreciation. I especially like your
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 23, 2007
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      Wow. That's really heavy. That's the best thing I've read all day.

      Thanks for rendering so eloquently your profound appreciation.

      I especially like your observation of "the elegance of its convoluted
      web of cause and long-delayed effect."

      I feel that _The Silmarillion_ is like a fine wine, or maybe a fine
      esoteric blend of tobacco, or chese or something like that. First
      you've got to develop a taste for that, and then as your sensibilities
      become more refined your appreciation of it becomes more substantial.

      There seems something quite romantic about your experience with _The
      Silmarillion_ on that long deployment at sea.

      Wonderful.

      On 10/23/07, William Cloud Hicklin <solicitr@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Although my teeneaged self pre-ordered the Silmarillion
      > and even marked on the calendar the day I could
      > triumphantly collect it at Waldenbooks, and I loved it
      > from the start (unlike, I expect, many< I didn't then
      > fully apprecioate it. It took perhaps collegiate study
      > in both philosophy and Old English to enable deeper
      > levels of understanding.
      >
      > I think for a considerable time I valued the Sil as too
      > many still do: as mere backstory to The LR, the
      > Appendices extended, an infodump, a mine of trivia.
      > Substantial appreciation of its grandeur as a whole, of
      > the elegance of its convoluted web of cause and long-
      > delayed effect, of its powerful meditations on the nature
      > of Evil, really began to dawn when I read it on a long,
      > long deployment at sea in the Navy.
      >
      > Nowadays I don't believe the two can be ranked relative
      > to one another: they are simply too different. I suppose
      > that if one views The Lord of the Rings as Tolkien's 9th
      > Symphony, glorious, uplifting, at times ferocious,
      > inspiring, spiritual, but nonetheless 'popular'; then the
      > Sil is his Late Quartets: spare, un-'popular',
      > discursive, numinous in a manner harder to pin down,
      > uncompromisingly driven by its own unique internal
      > logic...and unfinished.
      >
      >
    • William Cloud Hicklin
      ... your experience with _The ... Well, there s an added resonance to all the stuff about Ulmo and water when there s nothing to look at but ocean, day after
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 24, 2007
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        --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Walter
        Padgett" <wpadgett@...> wrote:

        > There seems something quite romantic about
        your experience with _The
        > Silmarillion_ on that long deployment at sea.
        >


        Well, there's an added resonance to all the stuff about
        Ulmo and water when there's nothing to look at but ocean,
        day after day after day....... :)
      • Walter Padgett
        I thought it was MacDonald s grand-fatherly uncular stance that earned Tolkien s distaste, and that Tolkien saw some of this in his own writing in _The
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 25, 2007
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          I thought it was MacDonald's grand-fatherly "uncular" stance that earned
          Tolkien's distaste, and that Tolkien saw some of this in his own writing in
          _The Hobbit_, detesting it all the more. But where I read that, I can't
          remember.

          On 10/22/07, Jason Fisher <visualweasel@...> wrote:
          >
          > > --- David Bratman wrote ---
          > > I'm looking forward to seeing the article. Do you venture
          > > ideas of exactly what it is in MacDonald that earned
          > > Tolkien's distaste?
          >
          > I suppose it depends on just what you mean by "exactly", hahae. But yes, I
          > take a stab at it. As much as an eight-page comparison permitted � and as
          > much as the evidence available to me supported. It's a jumping-off point for
          > further, more involved research I would like to complete on the subject.
          > Maybe it will spark some wider interest in comparative studies of the two as
          > well. I hope so.
          >
          > And I will certainly welcome any thoughts � complimentary or critical �
          > when you get a chance to read it, David.
          >
          > Jason
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Walter Padgett
          Oops! the word is avuncular (`_ ;) ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 25, 2007
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            Oops! the word is "avuncular" (`_';)






            On 10/25/07, Walter Padgett <wpadgett@...> wrote:
            >
            > I thought it was MacDonald's grand-fatherly "uncular" stance that earned
            > Tolkien's distaste, and that Tolkien saw some of this in his own writing in
            > _The Hobbit_, detesting it all the more. But where I read that, I can't
            > remember.
            >
            > On 10/22/07, Jason Fisher <visualweasel@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > > --- David Bratman wrote ---
            > > > I'm looking forward to seeing the article. Do you venture
            > > > ideas of exactly what it is in MacDonald that earned
            > > > Tolkien's distaste?
            > >
            > > I suppose it depends on just what you mean by "exactly", hahae. But yes,
            > > I take a stab at it. As much as an eight-page comparison permitted � and as
            > > much as the evidence available to me supported. It's a jumping-off point for
            > > further, more involved research I would like to complete on the subject.
            > > Maybe it will spark some wider interest in comparative studies of the two as
            > > well. I hope so.
            > >
            > > And I will certainly welcome any thoughts � complimentary or critical �
            > > when you get a chance to read it, David.
            > >
            > > Jason
            > >
            > >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Vincent Ferré
            and do not forget Gandalf, in The Lord..., according to his depiction by Tolkien : Though he may seem testy at times, has a sense of humour, and adopts a
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 25, 2007
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              and do not forget Gandalf, in The Lord..., according to his depiction by
              Tolkien :

              "Though he may seem testy at times, has a sense of humour, and adopts a
              somewhat avuncular attitude to hobbits, he is a person of high and noble
              authority, and great dignity. The description on I p. 239 should never be
              forgotten"
              (Letters #210)

              Vincent

              >
              I thought it was MacDonald's grand-fatherly "uncular" stance that earned
              Tolkien's distaste, and that Tolkien saw some of this in his own writing in
              _The Hobbit_, detesting it all the more. But where I read that, I can't
              remember.
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