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Re: Pan's Labyrinth

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  • Lynn Maudlin
    I don t know that I ve really got a good handle on this child s behavior; I recognize that my assessment is personal and visceral, so plenty of YMMV warnings.
    Message 1 of 66 , Sep 2 10:08 PM
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      I don't know that I've really got a good handle on this child's
      behavior; I recognize that my assessment is personal and visceral, so
      plenty of YMMV warnings.

      I think that was her explanation to Pan, her excuse - not an
      intentional lie so much as trying to explain an act of selfish
      stupidity. See, I think you are expecting more rational thought from
      children than is generally seen. Please don't misunderstand; I can
      already hear you saying how you remember your thought processes at the
      age of 8 or 10, but David, you're remarkable. You were then, you are
      now - not typical, not representative.

      I suspect she didn't have a reason other than, "oooh, grapes look
      good! there's lots of them, who's going to know if I eat one or two?"
      and then not really thinking through the whole warning - that kind of
      mental dismissal of inconvenient facts/instructions seems very typical
      of childhood to me - a place where willful disobedience is a common
      occurance, but usually not with such terrifying consequences.

      At least I wouldn't go expecting a "reason" beyond that.

      -- Lynn --


      --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Bratman <dbratman@...> wrote:
      >
      > At 09:34 PM 8/30/2007 +0000, Lynn Maudlin wrote:
      >
      > >Yes, she's hungry - BUT she went for grapes, she didn't ravenously dig
      > >into more substantial fare. I felt it was willful, childish
      > >disobedience and *if she believed nothing bad was going to happen* she
      > >was not representative of children in that era or, I think, of fairy
      > >tales in general.
      >
      > She _said_ that she believed nothing bad was going to happen. Do
      you think
      > she was lying to Pan when she said it?
      >
      > Do you agree with the idea that she knew perfectly well that
      something bad
      > would happen, and that she did it to spice up the adventure?
      >
      > >In any case, her disobedience didn't read as "real" to me, it seemed
      > >too quick and the fairies were warning her and she waved them off - it
      > >was a character point that confused me.
      >
      > Oh yes, I forgot about the fairies trying to warn her off. It was
      indeed
      > wilful disobedience on her part; the question is why she did it. She
      > didn't disobey on the previous quest, the one with the frog, and she's
      > otherwise not depicted as a wilful child: if she disobeys it's for a
      reason
      > (even if the adults don't know what it is), not to disobey for
      disobeying's
      > sake.
      >
    • Mike Foster
      In the cool light of day the morning after viewing this, Jo and I discovered that, while the movie was certainly wonderfully done, it was a bit off-putting for
      Message 66 of 66 , Sep 7 9:53 AM
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        In the cool light of day the morning after viewing this, Jo and I
        discovered that, while the movie was certainly wonderfully done, it was
        a bit off-putting for the reasons Pat and Carl noted below-though, as
        noted before, the girl's fate was something I would much rather not have
        known in advance.

        As Jo said, "It's fine that good finally overcame evil, but did there
        have to be so much evil?" The ending, where the girl's death amounts to
        the saving of her brother and her final glimpse of a beatific heavenly
        vision with a God the Father (as well as David Crosby) lookalike seems
        to be an obvious Christian parallel.

        In reviewing this thread, especially the business with the grapes, it
        seems fitting to cite Chesterton's "The Ethics Of Elfland" and his
        Doctrine of Conditional Joy, where all good and evil hang on a random
        choice to do or not to do a simple deed: Eve's apple, Pandora's box.
        Tolkien mentions this in "On Fairy Stories." It certainly looms in the
        amplification of the power of the Ring from -The Hobbit- to -The Lord of
        the Rings-, where what had been a handy little talisman for Bilbo
        becomes life or death for Frodo. That's why Jackson's plot change from
        Faramir refusing to take the Ring from Frodo to the muddled digression
        to Osgiliath is one of the more egregious offenses in the screenplay.

        Mike

        -----Original Message-----
        From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Carl F. Hostetter
        Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:48 AM
        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Pan's Labyrinth


        On Aug 22, 2007, at 8:22 AM, Patrick H. Wynne wrote:
        > watching a helpless adolescent girl (probably delusional)
        > being physically and psychologically abused for two hours, then shot
        > dead, is NOT my idea of a good time!
        >

        Boy howdy.

        > Am I the only one who absolutely loathed this film?
        >

        No, you are not.
        >



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