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Re: [mythsoc] Re: Language?

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  • alexeik@aol.com
    ... From: Jason Fisher To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:21 pm Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Language? ... Just adding to
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 15, 2007
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      -----Original Message-----
      From: Jason Fisher <visualweasel@...>
      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:21 pm
      Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Language?

























      > I'm still worrying about Anthony Boucher's references to Groznia as a

      > country, which I wrote about earlier. It is a fictional Balkan country,

      > and one speaker says, "Dobru din, Grigoru. Prihud so min." That means,

      > "Good morning, Gregory. Come with me." Can anyone identify the

      > language? (It might be Russian, it might be invented, it might be

      > something else.)



      Just adding to what Wendell said, it looks close to Slovenian, Serbo-Croatian, Russian, etc. -- close enough that it could be a real language or dialect in the Slavic family. Or it could be an invention based on them (a little like Anthony Burgess's Nadsat). I'll ask Mark Hooker about it and see what he says. He's speaks Russian and is well enough versed in Bulgarian, Czech, Polish, etc., that I think he might be of some help here, but he doesn't monitor this list.



      Jason Fisher






      _,_._,___





















      <<

      Russian, of course, is my native language, and I can assure you that the phrases quoted aren't Russian,
      nor do they correspond exactly to any other Slavic language known to me. However, they're perfectly
      intelligible for any speaker of any Slavic language. I suspect Boucher simply tweaked some real Slavic-
      language phrases to make them look like a distinct but related language.
      ?? In a way, it reminds me of the "generic Slavic" I used to speak with a group of students from various other
      Slavic countries when I was at college. Each of us would basically be speaking his own language, but toning down
      those aspects of it he knew would be hardest to understand for speakers of the others. The result sounded more
      like Slovak than anything else.
      ? In actual Russian, the "Groznian" phrases would translate as'
      ? Dobryj d'en', Grigorij. Prijdi so mnoj.
      Alexei




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    • Jason Fisher
      Mark Hooker s thoughts. Basically, in agreement with Alexei, but with a little bit more detail, if it s of interest. Jason ... From: Mark Hooker To:
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 15, 2007
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        Mark Hooker's thoughts. Basically, in agreement with Alexei, but with a little bit more detail, if it's of interest.

        Jason

        ----- Forwarded Message ----
        From: Mark Hooker <...>
        To: Jason Fisher <visualweasel@...>
        Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 4:43:04 PM
        Subject: Re: Fw: Language?


        I can say with certainty that is it not Russian, Belorussian, Ukrainian,
        Polish, Czech, Slovak or Bulgarian. I can speculate that it is not a real
        Slavic language from one of the Balkan states because of the ending -u on dobru
        din. Den/dzien/dan (and all the other vowel variants) means 'day' and it is
        masculine, which requires a masculine adjective ending (normally an i/y). This
        -u ending could be someone who does not know Cyrilic too well, because the
        Cyrillic 'I' [pronounced 'ee'] looks to Latin-alphabet-readers like the letter
        'U'. The same is true of the ending -u on the name Grigor. That ending is
        possible in the vocative case, but if it is really an 'I', then that is the
        expected ending for this name in Slavic, in Russian it would be Gregorij. The
        prefix pri- is used with motion verbs to indicate travel to a destination, and
        arrival. I would expect prikhod' ko mne (to me), but not the use in your quote
        of 'with me', though the preposition is correct 'so'. The translation of 'din'
        as 'morning' is not good, as there is a good way to say 'good morning' in all
        the Slavic languages I know.

        The name of the country (Groznia) is based on the root for 'terrible', as in
        Ivan the Terrible.

        Was that a help?

        Cheers, Mark

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Diane Joy Baker
        Alexei might know. He s quite the polyglot. ---djb ... From: Jason Fisher To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 10:21 PM Subject:
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 19, 2007
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          Alexei might know. He's quite the polyglot. ---djb
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Jason Fisher
          To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 10:21 PM
          Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Language?


          > I'm still worrying about Anthony Boucher's references to Groznia as a
          > country, which I wrote about earlier. It is a fictional Balkan country,
          > and one speaker says, "Dobru din, Grigoru. Prihud so min." That means,
          > "Good morning, Gregory. Come with me." Can anyone identify the
          > language? (It might be Russian, it might be invented, it might be
          > something else.)

          Just adding to what Wendell said, it looks close to Slovenian, Serbo-Croatian, Russian, etc. -- close enough that it could be a real language or dialect in the Slavic family. Or it could be an invention based on them (a little like Anthony Burgess's Nadsat). I'll ask Mark Hooker about it and see what he says. He's speaks Russian and is well enough versed in Bulgarian, Czech, Polish, etc., that I think he might be of some help here, but he doesn't monitor this list.

          Jason Fisher

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