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Re: Medieval studies -- "Quenya" & "Sindarin" in LotR.

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  • William Cloud Hicklin
    ... with an unresolved ... (or Old English?) -- ... It s definitely Sindarin. I would suggest that the etymology isn t unresolved, either, although the note
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 11, 2007
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      --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Merlin
      DeTardo" <emptyD@...> wrote:

      >
      > I am a bit lost. So "athelas" is Sindarin, but
      with an unresolved
      > etymology suggesting a strong element of Quenya
      (or Old English?) --
      > is that right?


      It's definitely Sindarin. I would suggest that
      the etymology isn't unresolved, either, although
      the note in question hasn't been published (except
      via Internet: my fault, but the wars were still in
      the future at the time). The plant apparently was
      not native to Middle-earth, but brought by the
      Noldor; they called it in Quenya athea > asea (see
      The Shibboleth of Feanor). In exile, the Sindarin
      name was coined: regular cognate athe- compounded
      with -las. My speculation is that Asea Aranion
      was a specifically Numenorean term, the King being
      associated with healing in that culture; the
      translation would be something like 'kingsbalm.'

      The link to Old English aethele was entirely my
      guess- but it wouldn't be the only time OE found
      its way into the Elvish tongues: see CT's note on
      Orgel in Children of Hurin, or for that matter S.
      orch (from OE orc: Tolkien expressly said this
      word was 'Rohirric,' and it plainly comes from OE
      orc-neas and not L. orcus.).
    • William Cloud Hicklin
      OMG, Dr John, that is *screamingly* funny! And I ve been that DM, too.
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 11, 2007
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        OMG, Dr John, that is *screamingly* funny! And I've
        been that DM, too.
      • Merlin DeTardo
        ... unresolved, either, although the note in question... Thanks very much for that explanation. ... tongues: see CT s note on Orgel in Children of Hurin... I
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 15, 2007
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          >>"William Cloud Hicklin" <solicitr@...> wrote:

          >>>---"Merlin DeTardo" <emptyD@> wrote:
          >>>So "athelas" is Sindarin, but with an unresolved etymology ...?

          >> It's definitely Sindarin. I would suggest that the etymology isn't
          unresolved, either, although the note in question...

          Thanks very much for that explanation.


          >>...it wouldn't be the only time OE found its way into the Elvish
          tongues: see CT's note on Orgel in Children of Hurin...

          I can't find Orgel in the list of names at the back of _The Children
          of Hurin_ -- which character is that?

          Just kidding. Do you think Christopher Tolkien is right that it
          was "too late" to change "Saeros" to "Orgol"?
        • William Cloud Hicklin
          ... right that it ... Well, look at it from the perspective of CRT s purpose in publishing CoH. He very openly intended it to serve as a bridge to The
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 15, 2007
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            --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Merlin
            DeTardo" <emptyD@...> wrote:

            >
            > Just kidding. Do you think Christopher Tolkien is
            right that it
            > was "too late" to change "Saeros" to "Orgol"?
            >

            Well, look at it from the perspective of CRT's
            purpose in publishing CoH. He very openly intended
            it to serve as a bridge to The Silmarillion for
            readers of The Lord of the Rings. Not direct to
            HoME! Thus in this one case consistency overrode
            what was generally his 'extreme scrupulosity' in not
            altering the Narn papers at all beyond, in effect,
            copy-editing. (He was fortunate in the fact that the
            Narn papers, to all appearances, predate the 1958-60
            writings which underly so many 'canonicity' debates).
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