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Modern Grimas

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  • ebadams2000
    My earlier reference regarding current individuals taking Grima as their role model was only intended to refer to their apparent motivations (i.e., treason
    Message 1 of 9 , May 24, 2007
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      My earlier reference regarding current individuals taking Grima as
      their role model was only intended to refer to their apparent
      motivations (i.e., treason versus constructive criticism) than to their
      actual tactics. The point about Eomer being quicker to "jump up and
      down" was well made, but Grima would have done the same, in his own way.

      I have long thought that there are interesting comparisons to be made
      between the War of the Ring and the current geopolitical situation.
      Maybe a separate thread or Group (I am not familiar with how these
      things work, yet) could be set up so those of us who wished could
      continue what is bound to be a raucous series of debates while leaving
      the main Mythsoc list to its more central, less political purposes.
    • Walter Padgett
      If Tolkien s myth can make the current geopolitical situation any more intelligible, I can t think of a more appropriate place to discuss such comparisons.
      Message 2 of 9 , May 24, 2007
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        If Tolkien's myth can make the current geopolitical situation any more
        intelligible, I can't think of a more appropriate place to discuss such
        comparisons. That is a function of myth, isn't it-- to impose a sense of
        order on complex natural phenomena?


        On 5/24/07, ebadams2000 <ebadams2000@...> wrote:
        >
        > My earlier reference regarding current individuals taking Grima as
        > their role model was only intended to refer to their apparent
        > motivations (i.e., treason versus constructive criticism) than to their
        > actual tactics. The point about Eomer being quicker to "jump up and
        > down" was well made, but Grima would have done the same, in his own way.
        >
        > I have long thought that there are interesting comparisons to be made
        > between the War of the Ring and the current geopolitical situation.
        > Maybe a separate thread or Group (I am not familiar with how these
        > things work, yet) could be set up so those of us who wished could
        > continue what is bound to be a raucous series of debates while leaving
        > the main Mythsoc list to its more central, less political purposes.
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Sara Ciborski
        ... The making of comparisons or finding of parallels between what happens in LoTR and the current geopolitical situation may be amusing and even lead to
        Message 3 of 9 , May 25, 2007
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          ebadams2000 wrote:
          > I have long thought that there are interesting comparisons to be made
          > between the War of the Ring and the current geopolitical situation.
          >
          >
          >
          The making of comparisons or finding of parallels between what happens
          in LoTR and the current geopolitical situation may be amusing and even
          lead to better understanding, but--as is well known--Tolkien explicitly
          denied that his work was topical. The real relationship (I believe)
          between LoTR and contemporary geopolitical, social, or other situations
          is this: reading it we are deeply affected; our awareness of the reality
          of and possibilities for goodness, truth, and beauty is expanded,
          sharpened; we are assured by our own reaction of the meaningfulness of
          life; we are deeply impressed with the need for courage, discernment,
          and perseverance in the face of implacable evil; we are awakened as
          individuals to our own power and freedom to choose to change the
          world--I could say many things here, but you get the idea. And having
          read it we may bring our enhanced, awakened faculties into real action
          in the here and now.
          This is a (partial--much more could be said) theory of reading and it is
          not particularly informative of me to say that great books have the
          power to inspire and change lives--for that is why they are judged
          great. But it is worth noting, albeit tangential to the discussion of
          understanding current geopolitics, that LoTR is extraordinary in this
          regard.

          Sara Ciborski
          Always enjoying everyone's posts, seldom with time to participate.
        • lynnmaudlin
          ... sense of ... I can assure you that a *real* geopolitical discussion in this group will create much tension and flying of fur, gnashing of teeth, etc. It
          Message 4 of 9 , May 25, 2007
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            --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Walter Padgett" <wpadgett@...> wrote:
            >
            > If Tolkien's myth can make the current geopolitical situation any more
            > intelligible, I can't think of a more appropriate place to discuss such
            > comparisons. That is a function of myth, isn't it-- to impose a
            sense of
            > order on complex natural phenomena?


            I can assure you that a *real* geopolitical discussion in this group
            will create much tension and flying of fur, gnashing of teeth, etc. It
            would prove to be divisive and feelings would be hurt, offense would
            be taken (even when not intended) - not a good plan, imho. BUT a
            different group could be set up for that specific purpose and then
            those individuals who find such strong fare to their liking would be
            free to wrestle each other into submission... <grin>

            But folks participate here to focus on Tolkien and not the current
            geopolitical situation (many actively want to escape thinking about
            the current geopolitical situation). The fact that we can see various
            applications is, as Sara pointed out, high praise to Tolkien's work
            and the way it engages the intelligent reader.

            I don't know that a function of myth is to impose a sense of order on
            complex natural phenomena - that, in itself, is an interesting
            question. If you go back to Greek myth (and drama!), is it in fact
            attempting to impose order on an unruly world? Or is it the telling of
            stories? (some of which I am increasingly convinced were based on
            reality).

            Did anybody else here see the Greek Tolkien Society's juxtaposition of
            Oedipus Rex and Tolkien? Probably Mike Foster did... that was
            *amazing*, my favorite experience at the 2005 Tolkien Conference
            (incorporating Mythcon 36) in Birmingham, England.
          • Walkermonk@aol.com
            In a message dated 5/25/2007 7:43:51 P.M. Central Daylight Time, lynnmaudlin@yahoo.com writes: Did anybody else here see the Greek Tolkien Society s
            Message 5 of 9 , May 25, 2007
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              In a message dated 5/25/2007 7:43:51 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
              lynnmaudlin@... writes:

              Did anybody else here see the Greek Tolkien Society's juxtaposition of
              Oedipus Rex and Tolkien? Probably Mike Foster did... that was
              *amazing*, my favorite experience at the 2005 Tolkien Conference
              (incorporating Mythcon 36) in Birmingham, England.



              -----------

              I remember it very fondly. And the Greek T.S. are wonderful fun people with
              the coolest t-shirts! :-)

              grace



              ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • WendellWag@aol.com
              In a message dated 5/25/2007 9:07:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Walkermonk@aol.com writes: I remember it very fondly. And the Greek T.S. are wonderful fun
              Message 6 of 9 , May 26, 2007
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                In a message dated 5/25/2007 9:07:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                Walkermonk@... writes:

                I remember it very fondly. And the Greek T.S. are wonderful fun people with
                the coolest t-shirts! :-)



                Being a total geek, one of the things I did at Tolkien 2005 was calculate
                which country had the most people there (per capita). Greece was near the top.

                Wendell Wagner



                ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • lynnmaudlin
                Wow, cool trivia/stat there, Wendell! They were *great*, they really were - so enthusiastic, so hardworking - the actors didn t speak English, by and large,
                Message 7 of 9 , May 26, 2007
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                  Wow, cool trivia/stat there, Wendell! They were *great*, they really
                  were - so enthusiastic, so hardworking - the actors didn't speak
                  English, by and large, and yet they communicated VERY effectively in
                  English. Soooo powerful. Enthusiastic, dedicated, thorough, fun -
                  great Tolkien fans!

                  -- Lynn --

                  --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, WendellWag@... wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > In a message dated 5/25/2007 9:07:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                  > Walkermonk@... writes:
                  >
                  > I remember it very fondly. And the Greek T.S. are wonderful fun
                  people with
                  > the coolest t-shirts! :-)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Being a total geek, one of the things I did at Tolkien 2005 was
                  calculate
                  > which country had the most people there (per capita). Greece was
                  near the top.
                  >
                  > Wendell Wagner
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ************************************** See what's free at
                  http://www.aol.com
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Bonnie Callahan
                  Well, fellow Mythsoc members: The 2005 Greek/Tolkien presentation was most unique & special. I did view it. Wish we had video of same to show at future
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 27, 2007
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                    Well, fellow Mythsoc members:

                    The 2005 Greek/Tolkien presentation was most unique &
                    special. I did view it. Wish we had video of same to
                    show at future Mythcons.

                    Some of us are just going to have to start wielding
                    camcorders more frequently to capture these
                    events. We need to ARCHIVE our mutual history. If
                    I can ever afford it I'll join the fray. So far I'm
                    still a STILL photo expert.

                    Volunteer call.....anyone? Even if we have to bend
                    arms to get permissions when needed?

                    Bonnie
                    ************

                    --- lynnmaudlin <lynnmaudlin@...> wrote:

                    > Wow, cool trivia/stat there, Wendell! They were
                    > *great*, they really
                    > were - so enthusiastic, so hardworking - the actors
                    > didn't speak
                    > English, by and large, and yet they communicated
                    > VERY effectively in
                    > English. Soooo powerful. Enthusiastic, dedicated,
                    > thorough, fun -
                    > great Tolkien fans!
                    >
                    > -- Lynn --
                    >
                    > --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, WendellWag@...
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > In a message dated 5/25/2007 9:07:49 P.M. Eastern
                    > Daylight Time,
                    > > Walkermonk@... writes:
                    > >
                    > > I remember it very fondly. And the Greek T.S. are
                    > wonderful fun
                    > people with
                    > > the coolest t-shirts! :-)
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Being a total geek, one of the things I did at
                    > Tolkien 2005 was
                    > calculate
                    > > which country had the most people there (per
                    > capita). Greece was
                    > near the top.
                    > >
                    > > Wendell Wagner
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ************************************** See what's
                    > free at
                    > http://www.aol.com
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                    > removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • lynnmaudlin
                    Well, you can t twist arms to get permissions - they have to be freely given and we need to be VERY specific that it s for personal or archival purposes and
                    Message 9 of 9 , May 28, 2007
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                      Well, you can't twist arms to get permissions - they have to be freely
                      given and we need to be VERY specific that it's for personal or
                      archival purposes and not to be inserted into some future commercial film.

                      It is perhaps something we need to think about, in this day of cell
                      phones with cameras and still cameras with limited video capture,
                      establishing a general policy for Mythcons... hmmm....

                      Of course, that even wouldn't translate well onto a TV screen - poor
                      lighting, a funky space (remember how low that ceiling was?), and so
                      much of the *power* of it was the atmosphere in the room and I don't
                      think atmosphere translate well onto film (or video).

                      The good news in all this is that camcorders keep getting both smaller
                      and less expensive. <grin>

                      -- Lynn --

                      --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Bonnie Callahan <bonolatm@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Well, fellow Mythsoc members:
                      >
                      > The 2005 Greek/Tolkien presentation was most unique &
                      > special. I did view it. Wish we had video of same to
                      > show at future Mythcons.
                      >
                      > Some of us are just going to have to start wielding
                      > camcorders more frequently to capture these
                      > events. We need to ARCHIVE our mutual history. If
                      > I can ever afford it I'll join the fray. So far I'm
                      > still a STILL photo expert.
                      >
                      > Volunteer call.....anyone? Even if we have to bend
                      > arms to get permissions when needed?
                      >
                      > Bonnie
                      > ************
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