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Re: Kalevala

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  • Patrick H. Wynne
    ... Tolkien s Hungarian-style language is actually called _Mágol_. In the earlier of the two texts on this language it is called _Mágo_ and more closely
    Message 1 of 20 , May 11, 2007
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      --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, alexeik@... wrote:

      > ... [Tolkien] did see Hungarian as intriguing (he has a Hungarian
      > character and introduces a number of Hungarian names in _The
      > Notion Club Papers_) and actually created a language inspired by
      > Hungarian, which he called Magu, although he doesn't seem to have
      > given it a story context (Carl and Pat would know a great deal more
      > about it than I do).

      Tolkien's Hungarian-style language is actually called _Mágol_. In the
      earlier of the two texts on this language it is called _Mágo_ and more
      closely resembles Adunaic than Hungarian; this same text also says
      that "Old Mágo" was the language of the children of Húrin.

      In the later text, the language is called _Mágol_ and seems clearly
      modeled after Hungarian in phonology and grammatical structure,
      while retaining a strong Elvish influence as well -- it reminds me of
      something that might have been spoken by a lost tribe of Avari who
      had taken up residence outside Budapest for a few millennia. This
      later text makes no internal mention of the speakers of the language,
      though some time after (perhaps _long_ after) its completion, Tolkien
      jotted the words "Ork, Orkish" at the top of the typescript, then struck
      this out and wrote "No".

      I should also note that Mágo(l) is probably the language misreported
      by Lisa Star as "Mork" in her online "List of Tolkien's Languages":

      http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/9902/langlst.html

      Star opines that "Mork" is "probably related to Old English", which
      is also not true. I presume that the name "Mork" is a mistaken con-
      flation in Star's mind of "Mágol" and "Ork".

      -- Patrick H. Wynne
    • Carl F. Hostetter
      Since accented characters in Pat s post came through mangled (at least in my mail), I ll note for any other to whom this happened that: Mágol = Magol with
      Message 2 of 20 , May 11, 2007
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        Since accented characters in Pat's post came through mangled (at
        least in my mail), I'll note for any other to whom this happened that:

        Mágol = Magol with accented (i.e., long) a
        Mágo = Mago with accented (long) a

        And, of course,

        Húrin = Hurin with accented (long) u

        (For the technical among us: Pat's message is UTF-8 encoded, but the
        Yahoo/ the mailer has defaulted to ISO-8859-1.)

        Carl
      • alexeik@aol.com
        ... From: Aelfwine@elvish.org To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 11 May 2007 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: Kalevala Since accented characters in Pat s
        Message 3 of 20 , May 11, 2007
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          -----Original Message-----
          From: Aelfwine@...
          To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Fri, 11 May 2007 9:21 AM
          Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: Kalevala


          Since accented characters in Pat's post came through mangled (at
          least in my mail), I'll note for any other to whom this happened that
          <<
          For some reason Pat's message never came up in my e-mail, so I'm glad you posted this (it enabled me to read the full message on the group website).
          I should add that all I know about Mago/Magol is what I can remember hearing from Pat at a long-ago Mythcon -- so I was hoping he'd chime in.
          :-)

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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • David Bratman
          ... Is this unpublished? I couldn t find this language, under any of the suggested spellings, in the NCP index. DB
          Message 4 of 20 , May 11, 2007
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            At 12:24 PM 5/11/2007 +0000, Patrick H. Wynne wrote:

            >Tolkien's Hungarian-style language is actually called _Mágol_. In the
            >earlier of the two texts on this language it is called _Mágo_ and more
            >closely resembles Adunaic than Hungarian; this same text also says
            >that "Old Mágo" was the language of the children of Húrin.

            Is this unpublished? I couldn't find this language, under any of the
            suggested spellings, in the NCP index.

            DB
          • Carl F. Hostetter
            ... Yes, it s unpublished. For now. Carl
            Message 5 of 20 , May 11, 2007
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              On May 11, 2007, at 3:20 PM, David Bratman wrote:

              > At 12:24 PM 5/11/2007 +0000, Patrick H. Wynne wrote:
              >
              > >Tolkien's Hungarian-style language is actually called _Mágol_. In the
              > >earlier of the two texts on this language it is called _Mágo_ and
              > more
              > >closely resembles Adunaic than Hungarian; this same text also says
              > >that "Old Mágo" was the language of the children of Húrin.
              >
              > Is this unpublished? I couldn't find this language, under any of the
              > suggested spellings, in the NCP index.

              Yes, it's unpublished. For now.

              Carl
            • lynnmaudlin
              ... Or obsession with a young Robin Williams...
              Message 6 of 20 , May 11, 2007
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                --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick H. Wynne" <pwynne@...> wrote:
                >
                > I should also note that Mágo(l) is probably the language misreported
                > by Lisa Star as "Mork" in her online "List of Tolkien's Languages":
                >
                > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/9902/langlst.html
                >
                > Star opines that "Mork" is "probably related to Old English", which
                > is also not true. I presume that the name "Mork" is a mistaken con-
                > flation in Star's mind of "Mágol" and "Ork".


                Or obsession with a young Robin Williams...
              • David Emerson
                ... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! emerdavid ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com
                Message 7 of 20 , May 12, 2007
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                  >> Star opines that "Mork" is "probably related to Old English", which
                  >> is also not true. I presume that the name "Mork" is a mistaken con-
                  >> flation in Star's mind of "Mágol" and "Ork".
                  >
                  >
                  >Or obsession with a young Robin Williams...

                  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

                  emerdavid

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