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Re: [mythsoc] new member introducing herself

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  • Jonathan Michael Reiter
    Welcome To The Gang! Jonathan Michael Reiter jmr ... From: Cristina A. Montes To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 10:04 PM Subject:
    Message 1 of 24 , Mar 13 7:46 AM
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      Welcome To The Gang!
      Jonathan Michael Reiter
      jmr
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Cristina A. Montes
      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 10:04 PM
      Subject: [mythsoc] new member introducing herself


      Mae govannen!

      I am Cristina A. Montes from the Philippines, a new member of this
      group. I graduated with degrees in the humanities and in law, and
      I'm currently waiting for the results of the bar examinations.

      I am a member of The Philippine Tolkien Society (TPTS) and an
      officer of The Philippine Order of Narnians (TPON). I read LOTR
      once a year, and I also read a lot of commentaries on it (my
      favorite so far being "The Philosophy of Tolkien" by Peter Kreeft).
      I have also read three JRRT biographies such as "Man and Myth" by
      Joseph Pearce, "Architect of Middle EArth" by Grotta, and "Tolkien
      and the Great WAr" (I forgot the author.) My C.S. Lewis readings
      include the entire Chronicles of NArnia, "The Screwtape
      Letters", "The Abolition of Man", "The Four Loves", and "Till WE
      HAve Faces."

      I dream of being able to join the Mythopoeic Society, but I can't
      afford the membership fee, so being part of this list is the closest.

      I look forward to learning from you all.






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John D Rateliff
      Today came across a Tolkien reference in the library that s another indicator of his permutation of popular culture. In the April 2007 issue of THE ATLANTIC,
      Message 2 of 24 , Mar 13 9:18 PM
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        Today came across a Tolkien reference in the library that's another
        indicator of his permutation of popular culture. In the April 2007
        issue of THE ATLANTIC, the 'Calendar' page (p. 25) lists events of
        note for the upcoming month. Alongside Tax Day, the White House
        Correspondents' Dinner, and the anniversary of the previous pope's
        death is the following piece on JRRT's new book:

        <begin>
        April 17
        Ring Down the Curtain
        Like the Lord of the Rings films, J. R. R. Tolkien's canon is taking
        its time in drawing to a close. Today, the late author's Children of
        Hurin goes on sale. Set long before Lord and imbued with a more
        tragic tone, the tale was pieced together by Tolkien's son,
        Christopher, from notes and fragments.
        <end>

        Also quite surprised to find Tolkien and Lewis brought in at the
        end (penultimate page) of Deborah Blum's GHOST HUNTERS: WILLIAM JAMES
        AND THE SEARCH FOR SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF LIFE AFTER DEATH (2006), the
        story of the Society for Psychical Research. It's part of Blum's
        thesis that James and those like him sought to find a middle way
        between what they saw as the two extremes of scientific atheism and
        outmoded Christianity. At the end, she wrenches her argument to try
        to assert that the post WWI period saw a rejection of skepticism and
        a resurgence of belief:

        <begin>
        Far from disappearing in favor of scientific materialism,
        spiritual values would endure and even seem to gain ground in the
        aftermath of the Great War, even in intellectual circles--as
        evidenced, for example, by the devout Christianity of twentieth-
        century authors J. R. R. Tolkien and his friend C. S. Lewis, both of
        them battle veterans and Oxford dons. (Blum, p. 320)
        <end>

        --JDR
        current reading: Thorne Smith, THE NIGHT LIFE OF THE GODS (1931)

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • William Cloud Hicklin
        Cristina: Elen sila lúmenn omentielvo! Welcome to the group. ... Man and Myth by ... Grotta, and Tolkien ... You would do well to get Tolkien: a Biography
        Message 3 of 24 , Mar 14 6:47 AM
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          Cristina: Elen sila lúmenn' omentielvo!

          Welcome to the group.



          > I have also read three JRRT biographies such as
          "Man and Myth" by
          > Joseph Pearce, "Architect of Middle EArth" by
          Grotta, and "Tolkien
          > and the Great WAr" (I forgot the author.)

          You would do well to get Tolkien: a Biography by
          Humphrey Carpenter and try to forget anything you
          read in Grotta's collection of errors and
          fabrications. If you want to go further, Tolkien's
          collected Letters (ed. by Carpenter and C. Tolkien)
          are indispensable; and for serious in-depth facts
          there is our own Wayne Hammond's massive JRR Tolkien
          Companion and Guide.
        • Wayne G. Hammond
          ... Which of course is also our own Christina Scull s JRR Tolkien Companion and Guide, it being a work of joint authorship. Wayne (husband of Christina)
          Message 4 of 24 , Mar 14 7:00 AM
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            William Cloud Hicklin wrote:

            > If you want to go further, Tolkien's
            >collected Letters (ed. by Carpenter and C. Tolkien)
            >are indispensable; and for serious in-depth facts
            >there is our own Wayne Hammond's massive JRR Tolkien
            >Companion and Guide.

            Which of course is also our own Christina Scull's JRR Tolkien Companion and
            Guide, it being a work of joint authorship.

            Wayne (husband of Christina)




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • David Emerson
            Welcome, Cristina. ... All very good suggestions. I would add Tom Shippey s ROAD TO MIDDLE-EARTH is essential, and AUTHOR OF THE CENTURY is right up there
            Message 5 of 24 , Mar 14 8:25 AM
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              Welcome, Cristina.

              >You would do well to get Tolkien: a Biography by
              >Humphrey Carpenter and try to forget anything you
              >read in Grotta's collection of errors and
              >fabrications. If you want to go further, Tolkien's
              >collected Letters (ed. by Carpenter and C. Tolkien)
              >are indispensable; and for serious in-depth facts
              >there is our own Wayne Hammond's massive JRR Tolkien
              >Companion and Guide.

              All very good suggestions. I would add Tom Shippey's ROAD TO MIDDLE-EARTH is essential, and AUTHOR OF THE CENTURY is right up there with it.

              emerdavid

              ________________________________________
              PeoplePC Online
              A better way to Internet
              http://www.peoplepc.com
            • Diane Joy Baker
              Welcome to the List! Mae govannen! ---djb ... From: Cristina A. Montes To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 11:04 PM Subject: [mythsoc]
              Message 6 of 24 , Mar 14 4:22 PM
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                Welcome to the List! Mae govannen! ---djb
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Cristina A. Montes
                To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 11:04 PM
                Subject: [mythsoc] new member introducing herself


                Mae govannen!

                I am Cristina A. Montes from the Philippines, a new member of this
                group. I graduated with degrees in the humanities and in law, and
                I'm currently waiting for the results of the bar examinations.

                I am a member of The Philippine Tolkien Society (TPTS) and an
                officer of The Philippine Order of Narnians (TPON). I read LOTR
                once a year, and I also read a lot of commentaries on it (my
                favorite so far being "The Philosophy of Tolkien" by Peter Kreeft).
                I have also read three JRRT biographies such as "Man and Myth" by
                Joseph Pearce, "Architect of Middle EArth" by Grotta, and "Tolkien
                and the Great WAr" (I forgot the author.) My C.S. Lewis readings
                include the entire Chronicles of NArnia, "The Screwtape
                Letters", "The Abolition of Man", "The Four Loves", and "Till WE
                HAve Faces."

                I dream of being able to join the Mythopoeic Society, but I can't
                afford the membership fee, so being part of this list is the closest.

                I look forward to learning from you all.





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Cristina A. Montes
                ... MIDDLE-EARTH is essential, and AUTHOR OF THE CENTURY is right up there with it. Thanks, everyone, for the suggested readings. I will keep these titles in
                Message 7 of 24 , Mar 14 5:15 PM
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                  --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Emerson <emerdavid@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Welcome, Cristina.
                  >
                  > >You would do well to get Tolkien: a Biography by
                  > >Humphrey Carpenter and try to forget anything you
                  > >read in Grotta's collection of errors and
                  > >fabrications. If you want to go further, Tolkien's
                  > >collected Letters (ed. by Carpenter and C. Tolkien)
                  > >are indispensable; and for serious in-depth facts
                  > >there is our own Wayne Hammond's massive JRR Tolkien
                  > >Companion and Guide.
                  >
                  > All very good suggestions. I would add Tom Shippey's ROAD TO
                  MIDDLE-EARTH is essential, and AUTHOR OF THE CENTURY is right up
                  there with it.


                  Thanks, everyone, for the suggested readings. I will keep these
                  titles in mind when I get my next bonus! :)

                  I would just like to ask: what are examples of Grotta's errors?
                • WendellWag@aol.com
                  In a message dated 3/14/2007 9:48:43 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, solicitr@mindspring.com writes: You would do well to get Tolkien: a Biography by Humphrey
                  Message 8 of 24 , Mar 14 7:35 PM
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                    In a message dated 3/14/2007 9:48:43 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                    solicitr@... writes:

                    You would do well to get Tolkien: a Biography by
                    Humphrey Carpenter and try to forget anything you
                    read in Grotta's collection of errors and
                    fabrications. If you want to go further, Tolkien's
                    collected Letters (ed. by Carpenter and C. Tolkien)
                    are indispensable; and for serious in-depth facts
                    there is our own Wayne Hammond's massive JRR Tolkien
                    Companion and Guide.



                    You know, I never understood the hostility that Grotta's biography gets.
                    It's been a long time since I read it though. Can someone tell me what the
                    mistakes in it are?

                    Wendell Wagner
                    <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
                    email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
                    http://www.aol.com


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • John D Rateliff
                    Welcome to the list, Cristina! ... Well, for one thing Tolkien s mother was never a missionary to the harem of the Sultan of Zanzibar. Grotta-Kurska is very
                    Message 9 of 24 , Mar 15 3:19 PM
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                      Welcome to the list, Cristina!


                      On Mar 14, 2007, at 5:15 PM, Cristina A. Montes wrote:
                      > Thanks, everyone, for the suggested readings. I will keep these
                      > titles in mind when I get my next bonus! :)
                      >
                      > I would just like to ask: what are examples of Grotta's errors?

                      Well, for one thing Tolkien's mother was never a missionary to the
                      harem of the Sultan of Zanzibar.
                      Grotta-Kurska is very readable, and he deserves points for
                      including information in the back about how to contact the various
                      Tolkien societies existing at the time. But unlike Carpenter, who had
                      access to more biographical information than he could fit into one
                      book, Grotta-Kurska's unauthorized effort had to piece together what
                      he could from public sources such as old interviews, with all the
                      hazards than implies. He's better than HC on the Leeds period and
                      also does a good job giving background on things Carpenter didn't
                      think needed explaining (e.g., how Oxford University differs from an
                      American college), but HC trumps him on just about every other point.
                      So if you're only going to read one biography of JRRT, Carpenter's is
                      the way to go.
                      Of course, given your interest in CSL as well, you'd probably
                      enjoy Carpenter's follow-up book, THE INKLINGS, which covers Lewis
                      and Charles Williams. And, although harder to find, Warnie Lewis's
                      diaries BROTHERS & FRIENDS is an excellent read and gives a vivid
                      "you are there" window into Inkling meetings, life at the Kiln, and
                      much more.
                      One older but still excellent book on Tolkien's work is Paul
                      Kocher's MASTER OF MIDDLE-EARTH; Verlyn Flieger's recent INTERRUPTED
                      MUSIC is also superb.

                      --JDR

                      current reading: ANDREW JACKSON: HIS LIFE AND TIMES by H. W. Brands.
                    • Cristina A. Montes
                      ... the ... various ... had ... one ... what ... an ... point. ... is ... Lewis ... Lewis s ... and ... INTERRUPTED ... Hmmm...are we talking about the same
                      Message 10 of 24 , Mar 15 5:14 PM
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                        > Well, for one thing Tolkien's mother was never a missionary to
                        the
                        > harem of the Sultan of Zanzibar.
                        > Grotta-Kurska is very readable, and he deserves points for
                        > including information in the back about how to contact the
                        various
                        > Tolkien societies existing at the time. But unlike Carpenter, who
                        had
                        > access to more biographical information than he could fit into
                        one
                        > book, Grotta-Kurska's unauthorized effort had to piece together
                        what
                        > he could from public sources such as old interviews, with all the
                        > hazards than implies. He's better than HC on the Leeds period and
                        > also does a good job giving background on things Carpenter didn't
                        > think needed explaining (e.g., how Oxford University differs from
                        an
                        > American college), but HC trumps him on just about every other
                        point.
                        > So if you're only going to read one biography of JRRT, Carpenter's
                        is
                        > the way to go.
                        > Of course, given your interest in CSL as well, you'd probably
                        > enjoy Carpenter's follow-up book, THE INKLINGS, which covers
                        Lewis
                        > and Charles Williams. And, although harder to find, Warnie
                        Lewis's
                        > diaries BROTHERS & FRIENDS is an excellent read and gives a vivid
                        > "you are there" window into Inkling meetings, life at the Kiln,
                        and
                        > much more.
                        > One older but still excellent book on Tolkien's work is Paul
                        > Kocher's MASTER OF MIDDLE-EARTH; Verlyn Flieger's recent
                        INTERRUPTED
                        > MUSIC is also superb.


                        Hmmm...are we talking about the same book by Daniel Grotta, "J.R.R.
                        Tolkien: Architect of Middle EArth"? I don't remember reading the
                        tidbit about Mabel Tolkien being a missionary to the harem of the
                        Sultan of Zanzibar, but maybe I'll look at my copy to see if it's
                        there. My copy also does not have information on how to contact the
                        various Tolkien societies existing at that time, although it does
                        have the story of how the first Tolkien society started. I also
                        don't remember if the book was co-authored by Kurska. But I'll
                        check again. Thanks for your reply and the interesting book
                        recommendations! The "Brothers and Friends" one looks surely worth
                        coveting!
                      • Wayne G. Hammond
                        ... Daniel Grotta later expanded his surname to Grotta-Kurska, under which later editions of his book have been published. My wife and I discuss _Architect of
                        Message 11 of 24 , Mar 15 6:35 PM
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                          Cristina wrote:

                          >Hmmm...are we talking about the same book by Daniel Grotta, "J.R.R.
                          >Tolkien: Architect of Middle EArth"? I don't remember reading the
                          >tidbit about Mabel Tolkien being a missionary to the harem of the
                          >Sultan of Zanzibar, but maybe I'll look at my copy to see if it's
                          >there. My copy also does not have information on how to contact the
                          >various Tolkien societies existing at that time, although it does
                          >have the story of how the first Tolkien society started. I also
                          >don't remember if the book was co-authored by Kurska.

                          Daniel Grotta later expanded his surname to Grotta-Kurska, under which
                          later editions of his book have been published. My wife and I discuss
                          _Architect of Middle Earth_ along with other accounts of Tolkien's life in
                          the "Reader's Guide" volume of our _J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide_,
                          under "Biographies". Among Grotta's errors: he gives the name "Joseph
                          Wrighty" for Joseph Wright, the eminent professor, whom Grotta calls
                          "Tolkien's first tutor" and "a young Fellow . . . who had arrived at Oxford
                          in the same year as Tolkien", i.e. 1911 (in fact Wright was at Oxford since
                          1888 and a professor -- and so no longer a tutor in the Oxford sense of the
                          term -- since 1901); he says that Tolkien took a Second Class in "Moderns
                          (which included Anglo-Saxon as opposed to Greek and Latin)", when in fact
                          Tolkien took Honour Moderations, an examination for those reading Classics;
                          Grotta names Nevill Coghill as Tolkien's successor to the Merton
                          Professorship of English Language and Literature, when it was actually
                          Norman Davis (Coghill became the Merton Professor of English Literature in
                          1957, before Tolkien retired); and Grotta says that the Ace Books _Lord of
                          the Rings_ has "neither index nor appendices", when it did include the
                          latter. Errors such as these remained even in later, revised printings of
                          Grotta's book.

                          Wayne


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • William Cloud Hicklin
                          ... Daniel Grotta, J.R.R. ... Kurska. But I ll ... There s no separate Mr. Kurska: when the book was originally published in 1976, the author called himself
                          Message 12 of 24 , Mar 15 7:01 PM
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                            --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Cristina A.
                            Montes" <camontes_dragon2001@...> wrote:

                            >
                            > Hmmm...are we talking about the same book by
                            Daniel Grotta, "J.R.R.
                            > Tolkien: Architect of Middle EArth"? ... I also
                            > don't remember if the book was co-authored by
                            Kurska. But I'll
                            > check again.

                            There's no separate Mr. Kurska: when the book was
                            originally published in 1976, the author called
                            himself "Daniel Grotta-Kurska;" on reprinting, for
                            some reason he dropped the hyphenation.
                          • David Bratman
                            ... Other way around: the first edition was signed Grotta-Kurska, the latter editions Grotta. It wasn t him, under either name, who came up with the
                            Message 13 of 24 , Mar 15 8:05 PM
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                              At 09:35 PM 3/15/2007 -0400, Wayne G. Hammond wrote:

                              >Daniel Grotta later expanded his surname to Grotta-Kurska, under which
                              >later editions of his book have been published.

                              Other way around: the first edition was signed Grotta-Kurska, the latter
                              editions Grotta.

                              It wasn't him, under either name, who came up with the Mabel-in-Zanzibar
                              story: that comes, if I recall, from William Ready (an outstandingly bad
                              book), and has been picked up by various other would-be Tolkien biographers
                              since.

                              Grotta does, as John Rateliff notes, have a few useful tidbits here and
                              there, which makes his book of some modest value to the advanced student.
                              But overall it's one of maybe a dozen extraordinarily dubious books that
                              call themselves Tolkien biographies, which are best avoided. These books
                              either rehash Humphrey Carpenter's biography, in which case Carpenter does
                              it better, or invent new material which is simply wrong. Thus, where they
                              are true, they are not original; and where they are original, they are not
                              true.

                              The list of WORTHWHILE books on Tolkien's life is very small and consists of:
                              1. Humphrey Carpenter, Tolkien: A Biography (and, supplementarily, his The
                              Inklings)
                              2. John Garth, Tolkien and the Great War
                              3. Christina Scull and Wayne G. Hammond, J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide
                              4. John and Priscilla Tolkien, The Tolkien Family Album

                              That's the good stuff; that's it. A few of the better critical books also
                              have reliable biographical material, but that's secondary to their function.

                              David Bratman
                            • Wayne G. Hammond
                              ... Yes, of course. ... It was indeed Ready who made this claim, which has no foundation. Wayne [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              Message 14 of 24 , Mar 16 5:13 AM
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                                David wrote:

                                >Other way around: the first edition was signed Grotta-Kurska, the latter
                                >editions Grotta.

                                Yes, of course.

                                >It wasn't him, under either name, who came up with the Mabel-in-Zanzibar
                                >story: that comes, if I recall, from William Ready (an outstandingly bad
                                >book), and has been picked up by various other would-be Tolkien biographers
                                >since.

                                It was indeed Ready who made this claim, which has no foundation.

                                Wayne


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Kim Jaudon
                                Hello all! I ve not been a member of this group for long. I ve been unable to find a local group of individuals willing to enter into the discussions that
                                Message 15 of 24 , Mar 16 5:18 PM
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                                  Hello all! I've not been a member of this group for long. I've been unable to find a local group of individuals willing to enter into the discussions that this wise group does, and so I am enjoying reading your posts a great deal.

                                  I have a question. There is a new book out, The Company They Keep: C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien as Writers in Community, by Glyer, that looks fairly good. I'm wondering if anyone has read it yet, and if you could give a recommendation about purchasing it?

                                  I've read both Carpenter's books and loved them, and must confess that I "use" more than simply read Christina Scull and Wayne Hammond's wonderful set (although - why did it take Amazon so long to get me my copies?). I would like to avoid spending precious time with books that aren't first rate. Any guidance would be appreciated.

                                  Thanks!

                                  Kim Jaudon

                                  David Bratman <dbratman@...> wrote:
                                  At 09:35 PM 3/15/2007 -0400, Wayne G. Hammond wrote:

                                  >Daniel Grotta later expanded his surname to Grotta-Kurska, under which
                                  >later editions of his book have been published.

                                  Other way around: the first edition was signed Grotta-Kurska, the latter
                                  editions Grotta.

                                  It wasn't him, under either name, who came up with the Mabel-in-Zanzibar
                                  story: that comes, if I recall, from William Ready (an outstandingly bad
                                  book), and has been picked up by various other would-be Tolkien biographers
                                  since.

                                  Grotta does, as John Rateliff notes, have a few useful tidbits here and
                                  there, which makes his book of some modest value to the advanced student.
                                  But overall it's one of maybe a dozen extraordinarily dubious books that
                                  call themselves Tolkien biographies, which are best avoided. These books
                                  either rehash Humphrey Carpenter's biography, in which case Carpenter does
                                  it better, or invent new material which is simply wrong. Thus, where they
                                  are true, they are not original; and where they are original, they are not
                                  true.

                                  The list of WORTHWHILE books on Tolkien's life is very small and consists of:
                                  1. Humphrey Carpenter, Tolkien: A Biography (and, supplementarily, his The
                                  Inklings)
                                  2. John Garth, Tolkien and the Great War
                                  3. Christina Scull and Wayne G. Hammond, J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide
                                  4. John and Priscilla Tolkien, The Tolkien Family Album

                                  That's the good stuff; that's it. A few of the better critical books also
                                  have reliable biographical material, but that's secondary to their function.

                                  David Bratman






                                  ---------------------------------
                                  Be a PS3 game guru.
                                  Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Bonnie Callahan
                                  Hi to Kim & all of you: For those of you who are in Los Angeles County, we have the Mydgard branch, which traces its roots clear back to 1970. The SF Bay area
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Mar 16 10:59 PM
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                                    Hi to Kim & all of you:

                                    For those of you who are in Los Angeles County, we
                                    have the Mydgard branch, which traces its roots clear
                                    back to 1970. The SF Bay area has Khazad-Dum.

                                    I encourage anyone in the rest of the country to
                                    consider organizing groups. We could really use them
                                    in places like Boston & NYC, the heartland places like
                                    Denver, etc. We longtime members are glad to mentor
                                    anyone in such efforts!

                                    I saw how simple (if ambitious) it was to organize
                                    branch after branch in 1968-71, and even recorded
                                    minutes for the nonprofit status organizational
                                    meetings of the Mythsoc.

                                    Here's to you all!

                                    Cheers,
                                    Bonnie Callahan
                                    *********

                                    --- Kim Jaudon <kim4fsu@...> wrote:

                                    > Hello all! I've not been a member of this group for
                                    > long. I've been unable to find a local group of
                                    > individuals willing to enter into the discussions
                                    > that this wise group does, and so I am enjoying
                                    > reading your posts a great deal.
                                    >
                                    > I have a question. There is a new book out, The
                                    > Company They Keep: C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien as
                                    > Writers in Community, by Glyer, that looks fairly
                                    > good. I'm wondering if anyone has read it yet, and
                                    > if you could give a recommendation about purchasing
                                    > it?
                                    >
                                    > I've read both Carpenter's books and loved them,
                                    > and must confess that I "use" more than simply read
                                    > Christina Scull and Wayne Hammond's wonderful set
                                    > (although - why did it take Amazon so long to get me
                                    > my copies?). I would like to avoid spending
                                    > precious time with books that aren't first rate.
                                    > Any guidance would be appreciated.
                                    >
                                    > Thanks!
                                    >
                                    > Kim Jaudon
                                    >
                                    > David Bratman <dbratman@...> wrote:
                                    > At 09:35 PM 3/15/2007 -0400, Wayne G.
                                    > Hammond wrote:
                                    >
                                    > >Daniel Grotta later expanded his surname to
                                    > Grotta-Kurska, under which
                                    > >later editions of his book have been published.
                                    >
                                    > Other way around: the first edition was signed
                                    > Grotta-Kurska, the latter
                                    > editions Grotta.
                                    >
                                    > It wasn't him, under either name, who came up with
                                    > the Mabel-in-Zanzibar
                                    > story: that comes, if I recall, from William Ready
                                    > (an outstandingly bad
                                    > book), and has been picked up by various other
                                    > would-be Tolkien biographers
                                    > since.
                                    >
                                    > Grotta does, as John Rateliff notes, have a few
                                    > useful tidbits here and
                                    > there, which makes his book of some modest value to
                                    > the advanced student.
                                    > But overall it's one of maybe a dozen
                                    > extraordinarily dubious books that
                                    > call themselves Tolkien biographies, which are best
                                    > avoided. These books
                                    > either rehash Humphrey Carpenter's biography, in
                                    > which case Carpenter does
                                    > it better, or invent new material which is simply
                                    > wrong. Thus, where they
                                    > are true, they are not original; and where they are
                                    > original, they are not
                                    > true.
                                    >
                                    > The list of WORTHWHILE books on Tolkien's life is
                                    > very small and consists of:
                                    > 1. Humphrey Carpenter, Tolkien: A Biography (and,
                                    > supplementarily, his The
                                    > Inklings)
                                    > 2. John Garth, Tolkien and the Great War
                                    > 3. Christina Scull and Wayne G. Hammond, J.R.R.
                                    > Tolkien Companion and Guide
                                    > 4. John and Priscilla Tolkien, The Tolkien Family
                                    > Album
                                    >
                                    > That's the good stuff; that's it. A few of the
                                    > better critical books also
                                    > have reliable biographical material, but that's
                                    > secondary to their function.
                                    >
                                    > David Bratman
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ---------------------------------
                                    > Be a PS3 game guru.
                                    > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and
                                    > previews at Yahoo! Games.
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                    > removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • WendellWag@aol.com
                                    In a message dated 3/16/2007 8:25:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kim4fsu@yahoo.com writes: I have a question. There is a new book out, The Company They Keep:
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Mar 17 1:08 AM
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                                      In a message dated 3/16/2007 8:25:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                      kim4fsu@... writes:

                                      I have a question. There is a new book out, The Company They Keep: C.S.
                                      Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien as Writers in Community, by Glyer, that looks fairly
                                      good. I'm wondering if anyone has read it yet, and if you could give a
                                      recommendation about purchasing it?



                                      Diana Glyer is a long-time member of the Mythopoeic Society, and she has
                                      presented bits of this book as talks at Mythcon. I've been asking her for
                                      several years now when this book will come out. I haven't read it yet, but from
                                      what I know of it I think it's going to be a great book.

                                      Wendell Wagner



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                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • WendellWag@aol.com
                                      In a message dated 3/15/2007 6:25:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sacnoth@earthlink.net writes: Well, for one thing Tolkien s mother was never a missionary to
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Mar 17 1:12 AM
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                                        In a message dated 3/15/2007 6:25:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                        sacnoth@... writes:

                                        Well, for one thing Tolkien's mother was never a missionary to the
                                        harem of the Sultan of Zanzibar.
                                        Grotta-Kurska is very readable, and he deserves points for
                                        including information in the back about how to contact the various
                                        Tolkien societies existing at the time. But unlike Carpenter, who had
                                        access to more biographical information than he could fit into one
                                        book, Grotta-Kurska'book, Grotta-Kurska'<WBR>s unauthorized effort had to
                                        he could from public sources such as old interviews, with all the
                                        hazards than implies. He's better than HC on the Leeds period and
                                        also does a good job giving background on things Carpenter didn't
                                        think needed explaining (e.g., how Oxford University differs from an
                                        American college), but HC trumps him on just about every other point.
                                        So if you're only going to read one biography of JRRT, Carpenter's is
                                        the way to go.
                                        Of course, given your interest in CSL as well, you'd probably
                                        enjoy Carpenter's follow-up book, THE INKLINGS, which covers Lewis
                                        and Charles Williams. And, although harder to find, Warnie Lewis's
                                        diaries BROTHERS & FRIENDS is an excellent read and gives a vivid
                                        "you are there" window into Inkling meetings, life at the Kiln, and
                                        much more.
                                        One older but still excellent book on Tolkien's work is Paul
                                        Kocher's MASTER OF MIDDLE-EARTH; Verlyn Flieger's recent INTERRUPTED
                                        MUSIC is also superb.



                                        Thanks, John. I've read (although it's been a long time now) the Grotta
                                        book, both Carpenter books, and the Kocher book you mention. I've got the
                                        Warnie Lewis book and the Flieger book but haven't read them yet.

                                        Wendell Wagner



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                                      • Sara Ciborski
                                        Dear Kim, If you have the Scull and Hammond Companion and Guide you have access to good guidance from trustworthy judges about what books are first rate: in
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Mar 17 8:21 AM
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                                          Dear Kim,
                                          If you have the Scull and Hammond Companion and Guide you have access to
                                          good guidance from trustworthy judges about what books are first rate: in
                                          the "Works Consulted" section you will find daggers by selected entries;
                                          these are the ones they "consider...particularly useful for an appreciation
                                          of Tolkein's life and works." You won't waste your time with any of these.
                                          Sara Ciborski




                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "Kim Jaudon" <kim4fsu@...>
                                          To: <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 7:18 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: new member introducing herself


                                          > Hello all! I've not been a member of this group for long. I've been
                                          unable to find a local group of individuals willing to enter into the
                                          discussions that this wise group does, and so I am enjoying reading your
                                          posts a great deal.
                                          >
                                          > I have a question. There is a new book out, The Company They Keep:
                                          C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien as Writers in Community, by Glyer, that looks
                                          fairly good. I'm wondering if anyone has read it yet, and if you could give
                                          a recommendation about purchasing it?
                                          >
                                          > I've read both Carpenter's books and loved them, and must confess that I
                                          "use" more than simply read Christina Scull and Wayne Hammond's wonderful
                                          set (although - why did it take Amazon so long to get me my copies?). I
                                          would like to avoid spending precious time with books that aren't first
                                          rate. Any guidance would be appreciated.
                                          >
                                          > Thanks!
                                          >
                                          > Kim Jaudon
                                        • WendellWag@aol.com
                                          In a message dated 3/16/2007 8:25:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kim4fsu@yahoo.com writes: Hello all! I ve not been a member of this group for long. I ve been
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Mar 17 12:46 PM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            In a message dated 3/16/2007 8:25:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                            kim4fsu@... writes:

                                            Hello all! I've not been a member of this group for long. I've been unable
                                            to find a local group of individuals willing to enter into the discussions
                                            that this wise group does, and so I am enjoying reading your posts a great deal.


                                            Where do you live? Tell us and we'll be able to tell you if there are any
                                            Mythopoeic Society discussion groups near where you live.

                                            Wendell Wagner



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                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Kim Jaudon
                                            I live in Des Moines, Iowa. It s actually quite a nice city despite the horrid weather. I couldn t find any groups on the Mythopoeic site (I recently joined
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Mar 17 2:04 PM
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                                              I live in Des Moines, Iowa. It's actually quite a nice city despite the horrid weather. I couldn't find any groups on the Mythopoeic site (I recently joined that society). It would be great if there was an existing group nearby.

                                              I assumed starting a group would be tough to do, however, if there's nothing in the area right now I'm more than willing to give it a go. I must admit to a certain..trepidation...though. I feel I have far more to learn than to offer at this point. Still, there may be others in the area with the same desires I have. Any help you folks are willing to give would be greatly appreciated.

                                              Thanks so much!

                                              Kim



                                              WendellWag@... wrote:

                                              In a message dated 3/16/2007 8:25:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                              kim4fsu@... writes:

                                              Hello all! I've not been a member of this group for long. I've been unable
                                              to find a local group of individuals willing to enter into the discussions
                                              that this wise group does, and so I am enjoying reading your posts a great deal.

                                              Where do you live? Tell us and we'll be able to tell you if there are any
                                              Mythopoeic Society discussion groups near where you live.

                                              Wendell Wagner

                                              ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone.
                                              Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                              ---------------------------------
                                              8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
                                              with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • David Emerson
                                              ... Well, you re halfway between the Far Westfarthing Smial in Peoria, and Rivendel in Minneapolis/StPaul, if you don t mind a 4-hour drive either way... :-)
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Mar 17 4:24 PM
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                                                >I live in Des Moines, Iowa. ... It would be great if there was an existing group nearby.

                                                Well, you're halfway between the Far Westfarthing Smial in Peoria, and Rivendel in Minneapolis/StPaul, if you don't mind a 4-hour drive either way... :-)

                                                Naw, go ahead and start one of your own. It'll be fun!



                                                emerdavid

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                                                PeoplePC Online
                                                A better way to Internet
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                                              • alexeik@aol.com
                                                ... From: WendellWag@aol.com To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 4:08 AM Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: new member introducing herself In a message
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Mar 17 7:12 PM
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: WendellWag@...
                                                  To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 4:08 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: new member introducing herself


                                                  In a message dated 3/16/2007 8:25:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                                  kim4fsu@... writes:

                                                  I have a question. There is a new book out, The Company They Keep: C.S.
                                                  Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien as Writers in Community, by Glyer, that looks fairly
                                                  good. I'm wondering if anyone has read it yet, and if you could give a
                                                  recommendation about purchasing it?

                                                  Diana Glyer is a long-time member of the Mythopoeic Society, and she has
                                                  presented bits of this book as talks at Mythcon. I've been asking her for
                                                  several years now when this book will come out. I haven't read it yet, but from
                                                  what I know of it I think it's going to be a great book.

                                                  Wendell Wagner <<
                                                  I just got my copy a few days ago. It's quite an exciting and insightful book, as it looks at a lot of familiar material in a completely fresh way. Alexei


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