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  • Cristina A. Montes
    Mae govannen! I am Cristina A. Montes from the Philippines, a new member of this group. I graduated with degrees in the humanities and in law, and I m
    Message 1 of 24 , Mar 12, 2007
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      Mae govannen!

      I am Cristina A. Montes from the Philippines, a new member of this
      group. I graduated with degrees in the humanities and in law, and
      I'm currently waiting for the results of the bar examinations.

      I am a member of The Philippine Tolkien Society (TPTS) and an
      officer of The Philippine Order of Narnians (TPON). I read LOTR
      once a year, and I also read a lot of commentaries on it (my
      favorite so far being "The Philosophy of Tolkien" by Peter Kreeft).
      I have also read three JRRT biographies such as "Man and Myth" by
      Joseph Pearce, "Architect of Middle EArth" by Grotta, and "Tolkien
      and the Great WAr" (I forgot the author.) My C.S. Lewis readings
      include the entire Chronicles of NArnia, "The Screwtape
      Letters", "The Abolition of Man", "The Four Loves", and "Till WE
      HAve Faces."

      I dream of being able to join the Mythopoeic Society, but I can't
      afford the membership fee, so being part of this list is the closest.

      I look forward to learning from you all.
    • Jonathan Michael Reiter
      Welcome To The Gang! Jonathan Michael Reiter jmr ... From: Cristina A. Montes To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 10:04 PM Subject:
      Message 2 of 24 , Mar 13, 2007
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        Welcome To The Gang!
        Jonathan Michael Reiter
        jmr
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Cristina A. Montes
        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 10:04 PM
        Subject: [mythsoc] new member introducing herself


        Mae govannen!

        I am Cristina A. Montes from the Philippines, a new member of this
        group. I graduated with degrees in the humanities and in law, and
        I'm currently waiting for the results of the bar examinations.

        I am a member of The Philippine Tolkien Society (TPTS) and an
        officer of The Philippine Order of Narnians (TPON). I read LOTR
        once a year, and I also read a lot of commentaries on it (my
        favorite so far being "The Philosophy of Tolkien" by Peter Kreeft).
        I have also read three JRRT biographies such as "Man and Myth" by
        Joseph Pearce, "Architect of Middle EArth" by Grotta, and "Tolkien
        and the Great WAr" (I forgot the author.) My C.S. Lewis readings
        include the entire Chronicles of NArnia, "The Screwtape
        Letters", "The Abolition of Man", "The Four Loves", and "Till WE
        HAve Faces."

        I dream of being able to join the Mythopoeic Society, but I can't
        afford the membership fee, so being part of this list is the closest.

        I look forward to learning from you all.






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John D Rateliff
        Today came across a Tolkien reference in the library that s another indicator of his permutation of popular culture. In the April 2007 issue of THE ATLANTIC,
        Message 3 of 24 , Mar 13, 2007
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          Today came across a Tolkien reference in the library that's another
          indicator of his permutation of popular culture. In the April 2007
          issue of THE ATLANTIC, the 'Calendar' page (p. 25) lists events of
          note for the upcoming month. Alongside Tax Day, the White House
          Correspondents' Dinner, and the anniversary of the previous pope's
          death is the following piece on JRRT's new book:

          <begin>
          April 17
          Ring Down the Curtain
          Like the Lord of the Rings films, J. R. R. Tolkien's canon is taking
          its time in drawing to a close. Today, the late author's Children of
          Hurin goes on sale. Set long before Lord and imbued with a more
          tragic tone, the tale was pieced together by Tolkien's son,
          Christopher, from notes and fragments.
          <end>

          Also quite surprised to find Tolkien and Lewis brought in at the
          end (penultimate page) of Deborah Blum's GHOST HUNTERS: WILLIAM JAMES
          AND THE SEARCH FOR SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF LIFE AFTER DEATH (2006), the
          story of the Society for Psychical Research. It's part of Blum's
          thesis that James and those like him sought to find a middle way
          between what they saw as the two extremes of scientific atheism and
          outmoded Christianity. At the end, she wrenches her argument to try
          to assert that the post WWI period saw a rejection of skepticism and
          a resurgence of belief:

          <begin>
          Far from disappearing in favor of scientific materialism,
          spiritual values would endure and even seem to gain ground in the
          aftermath of the Great War, even in intellectual circles--as
          evidenced, for example, by the devout Christianity of twentieth-
          century authors J. R. R. Tolkien and his friend C. S. Lewis, both of
          them battle veterans and Oxford dons. (Blum, p. 320)
          <end>

          --JDR
          current reading: Thorne Smith, THE NIGHT LIFE OF THE GODS (1931)

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • William Cloud Hicklin
          Cristina: Elen sila lúmenn omentielvo! Welcome to the group. ... Man and Myth by ... Grotta, and Tolkien ... You would do well to get Tolkien: a Biography
          Message 4 of 24 , Mar 14, 2007
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            Cristina: Elen sila lúmenn' omentielvo!

            Welcome to the group.



            > I have also read three JRRT biographies such as
            "Man and Myth" by
            > Joseph Pearce, "Architect of Middle EArth" by
            Grotta, and "Tolkien
            > and the Great WAr" (I forgot the author.)

            You would do well to get Tolkien: a Biography by
            Humphrey Carpenter and try to forget anything you
            read in Grotta's collection of errors and
            fabrications. If you want to go further, Tolkien's
            collected Letters (ed. by Carpenter and C. Tolkien)
            are indispensable; and for serious in-depth facts
            there is our own Wayne Hammond's massive JRR Tolkien
            Companion and Guide.
          • Wayne G. Hammond
            ... Which of course is also our own Christina Scull s JRR Tolkien Companion and Guide, it being a work of joint authorship. Wayne (husband of Christina)
            Message 5 of 24 , Mar 14, 2007
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              William Cloud Hicklin wrote:

              > If you want to go further, Tolkien's
              >collected Letters (ed. by Carpenter and C. Tolkien)
              >are indispensable; and for serious in-depth facts
              >there is our own Wayne Hammond's massive JRR Tolkien
              >Companion and Guide.

              Which of course is also our own Christina Scull's JRR Tolkien Companion and
              Guide, it being a work of joint authorship.

              Wayne (husband of Christina)




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • David Emerson
              Welcome, Cristina. ... All very good suggestions. I would add Tom Shippey s ROAD TO MIDDLE-EARTH is essential, and AUTHOR OF THE CENTURY is right up there
              Message 6 of 24 , Mar 14, 2007
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                Welcome, Cristina.

                >You would do well to get Tolkien: a Biography by
                >Humphrey Carpenter and try to forget anything you
                >read in Grotta's collection of errors and
                >fabrications. If you want to go further, Tolkien's
                >collected Letters (ed. by Carpenter and C. Tolkien)
                >are indispensable; and for serious in-depth facts
                >there is our own Wayne Hammond's massive JRR Tolkien
                >Companion and Guide.

                All very good suggestions. I would add Tom Shippey's ROAD TO MIDDLE-EARTH is essential, and AUTHOR OF THE CENTURY is right up there with it.

                emerdavid

                ________________________________________
                PeoplePC Online
                A better way to Internet
                http://www.peoplepc.com
              • Diane Joy Baker
                Welcome to the List! Mae govannen! ---djb ... From: Cristina A. Montes To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 11:04 PM Subject: [mythsoc]
                Message 7 of 24 , Mar 14, 2007
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                  Welcome to the List! Mae govannen! ---djb
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Cristina A. Montes
                  To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 11:04 PM
                  Subject: [mythsoc] new member introducing herself


                  Mae govannen!

                  I am Cristina A. Montes from the Philippines, a new member of this
                  group. I graduated with degrees in the humanities and in law, and
                  I'm currently waiting for the results of the bar examinations.

                  I am a member of The Philippine Tolkien Society (TPTS) and an
                  officer of The Philippine Order of Narnians (TPON). I read LOTR
                  once a year, and I also read a lot of commentaries on it (my
                  favorite so far being "The Philosophy of Tolkien" by Peter Kreeft).
                  I have also read three JRRT biographies such as "Man and Myth" by
                  Joseph Pearce, "Architect of Middle EArth" by Grotta, and "Tolkien
                  and the Great WAr" (I forgot the author.) My C.S. Lewis readings
                  include the entire Chronicles of NArnia, "The Screwtape
                  Letters", "The Abolition of Man", "The Four Loves", and "Till WE
                  HAve Faces."

                  I dream of being able to join the Mythopoeic Society, but I can't
                  afford the membership fee, so being part of this list is the closest.

                  I look forward to learning from you all.





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Cristina A. Montes
                  ... MIDDLE-EARTH is essential, and AUTHOR OF THE CENTURY is right up there with it. Thanks, everyone, for the suggested readings. I will keep these titles in
                  Message 8 of 24 , Mar 14, 2007
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                    --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Emerson <emerdavid@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Welcome, Cristina.
                    >
                    > >You would do well to get Tolkien: a Biography by
                    > >Humphrey Carpenter and try to forget anything you
                    > >read in Grotta's collection of errors and
                    > >fabrications. If you want to go further, Tolkien's
                    > >collected Letters (ed. by Carpenter and C. Tolkien)
                    > >are indispensable; and for serious in-depth facts
                    > >there is our own Wayne Hammond's massive JRR Tolkien
                    > >Companion and Guide.
                    >
                    > All very good suggestions. I would add Tom Shippey's ROAD TO
                    MIDDLE-EARTH is essential, and AUTHOR OF THE CENTURY is right up
                    there with it.


                    Thanks, everyone, for the suggested readings. I will keep these
                    titles in mind when I get my next bonus! :)

                    I would just like to ask: what are examples of Grotta's errors?
                  • WendellWag@aol.com
                    In a message dated 3/14/2007 9:48:43 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, solicitr@mindspring.com writes: You would do well to get Tolkien: a Biography by Humphrey
                    Message 9 of 24 , Mar 14, 2007
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                      In a message dated 3/14/2007 9:48:43 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                      solicitr@... writes:

                      You would do well to get Tolkien: a Biography by
                      Humphrey Carpenter and try to forget anything you
                      read in Grotta's collection of errors and
                      fabrications. If you want to go further, Tolkien's
                      collected Letters (ed. by Carpenter and C. Tolkien)
                      are indispensable; and for serious in-depth facts
                      there is our own Wayne Hammond's massive JRR Tolkien
                      Companion and Guide.



                      You know, I never understood the hostility that Grotta's biography gets.
                      It's been a long time since I read it though. Can someone tell me what the
                      mistakes in it are?

                      Wendell Wagner
                      <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
                      email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
                      http://www.aol.com


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • John D Rateliff
                      Welcome to the list, Cristina! ... Well, for one thing Tolkien s mother was never a missionary to the harem of the Sultan of Zanzibar. Grotta-Kurska is very
                      Message 10 of 24 , Mar 15, 2007
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                        Welcome to the list, Cristina!


                        On Mar 14, 2007, at 5:15 PM, Cristina A. Montes wrote:
                        > Thanks, everyone, for the suggested readings. I will keep these
                        > titles in mind when I get my next bonus! :)
                        >
                        > I would just like to ask: what are examples of Grotta's errors?

                        Well, for one thing Tolkien's mother was never a missionary to the
                        harem of the Sultan of Zanzibar.
                        Grotta-Kurska is very readable, and he deserves points for
                        including information in the back about how to contact the various
                        Tolkien societies existing at the time. But unlike Carpenter, who had
                        access to more biographical information than he could fit into one
                        book, Grotta-Kurska's unauthorized effort had to piece together what
                        he could from public sources such as old interviews, with all the
                        hazards than implies. He's better than HC on the Leeds period and
                        also does a good job giving background on things Carpenter didn't
                        think needed explaining (e.g., how Oxford University differs from an
                        American college), but HC trumps him on just about every other point.
                        So if you're only going to read one biography of JRRT, Carpenter's is
                        the way to go.
                        Of course, given your interest in CSL as well, you'd probably
                        enjoy Carpenter's follow-up book, THE INKLINGS, which covers Lewis
                        and Charles Williams. And, although harder to find, Warnie Lewis's
                        diaries BROTHERS & FRIENDS is an excellent read and gives a vivid
                        "you are there" window into Inkling meetings, life at the Kiln, and
                        much more.
                        One older but still excellent book on Tolkien's work is Paul
                        Kocher's MASTER OF MIDDLE-EARTH; Verlyn Flieger's recent INTERRUPTED
                        MUSIC is also superb.

                        --JDR

                        current reading: ANDREW JACKSON: HIS LIFE AND TIMES by H. W. Brands.
                      • Cristina A. Montes
                        ... the ... various ... had ... one ... what ... an ... point. ... is ... Lewis ... Lewis s ... and ... INTERRUPTED ... Hmmm...are we talking about the same
                        Message 11 of 24 , Mar 15, 2007
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                          > Well, for one thing Tolkien's mother was never a missionary to
                          the
                          > harem of the Sultan of Zanzibar.
                          > Grotta-Kurska is very readable, and he deserves points for
                          > including information in the back about how to contact the
                          various
                          > Tolkien societies existing at the time. But unlike Carpenter, who
                          had
                          > access to more biographical information than he could fit into
                          one
                          > book, Grotta-Kurska's unauthorized effort had to piece together
                          what
                          > he could from public sources such as old interviews, with all the
                          > hazards than implies. He's better than HC on the Leeds period and
                          > also does a good job giving background on things Carpenter didn't
                          > think needed explaining (e.g., how Oxford University differs from
                          an
                          > American college), but HC trumps him on just about every other
                          point.
                          > So if you're only going to read one biography of JRRT, Carpenter's
                          is
                          > the way to go.
                          > Of course, given your interest in CSL as well, you'd probably
                          > enjoy Carpenter's follow-up book, THE INKLINGS, which covers
                          Lewis
                          > and Charles Williams. And, although harder to find, Warnie
                          Lewis's
                          > diaries BROTHERS & FRIENDS is an excellent read and gives a vivid
                          > "you are there" window into Inkling meetings, life at the Kiln,
                          and
                          > much more.
                          > One older but still excellent book on Tolkien's work is Paul
                          > Kocher's MASTER OF MIDDLE-EARTH; Verlyn Flieger's recent
                          INTERRUPTED
                          > MUSIC is also superb.


                          Hmmm...are we talking about the same book by Daniel Grotta, "J.R.R.
                          Tolkien: Architect of Middle EArth"? I don't remember reading the
                          tidbit about Mabel Tolkien being a missionary to the harem of the
                          Sultan of Zanzibar, but maybe I'll look at my copy to see if it's
                          there. My copy also does not have information on how to contact the
                          various Tolkien societies existing at that time, although it does
                          have the story of how the first Tolkien society started. I also
                          don't remember if the book was co-authored by Kurska. But I'll
                          check again. Thanks for your reply and the interesting book
                          recommendations! The "Brothers and Friends" one looks surely worth
                          coveting!
                        • Wayne G. Hammond
                          ... Daniel Grotta later expanded his surname to Grotta-Kurska, under which later editions of his book have been published. My wife and I discuss _Architect of
                          Message 12 of 24 , Mar 15, 2007
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                            Cristina wrote:

                            >Hmmm...are we talking about the same book by Daniel Grotta, "J.R.R.
                            >Tolkien: Architect of Middle EArth"? I don't remember reading the
                            >tidbit about Mabel Tolkien being a missionary to the harem of the
                            >Sultan of Zanzibar, but maybe I'll look at my copy to see if it's
                            >there. My copy also does not have information on how to contact the
                            >various Tolkien societies existing at that time, although it does
                            >have the story of how the first Tolkien society started. I also
                            >don't remember if the book was co-authored by Kurska.

                            Daniel Grotta later expanded his surname to Grotta-Kurska, under which
                            later editions of his book have been published. My wife and I discuss
                            _Architect of Middle Earth_ along with other accounts of Tolkien's life in
                            the "Reader's Guide" volume of our _J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide_,
                            under "Biographies". Among Grotta's errors: he gives the name "Joseph
                            Wrighty" for Joseph Wright, the eminent professor, whom Grotta calls
                            "Tolkien's first tutor" and "a young Fellow . . . who had arrived at Oxford
                            in the same year as Tolkien", i.e. 1911 (in fact Wright was at Oxford since
                            1888 and a professor -- and so no longer a tutor in the Oxford sense of the
                            term -- since 1901); he says that Tolkien took a Second Class in "Moderns
                            (which included Anglo-Saxon as opposed to Greek and Latin)", when in fact
                            Tolkien took Honour Moderations, an examination for those reading Classics;
                            Grotta names Nevill Coghill as Tolkien's successor to the Merton
                            Professorship of English Language and Literature, when it was actually
                            Norman Davis (Coghill became the Merton Professor of English Literature in
                            1957, before Tolkien retired); and Grotta says that the Ace Books _Lord of
                            the Rings_ has "neither index nor appendices", when it did include the
                            latter. Errors such as these remained even in later, revised printings of
                            Grotta's book.

                            Wayne


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • William Cloud Hicklin
                            ... Daniel Grotta, J.R.R. ... Kurska. But I ll ... There s no separate Mr. Kurska: when the book was originally published in 1976, the author called himself
                            Message 13 of 24 , Mar 15, 2007
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                              --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Cristina A.
                              Montes" <camontes_dragon2001@...> wrote:

                              >
                              > Hmmm...are we talking about the same book by
                              Daniel Grotta, "J.R.R.
                              > Tolkien: Architect of Middle EArth"? ... I also
                              > don't remember if the book was co-authored by
                              Kurska. But I'll
                              > check again.

                              There's no separate Mr. Kurska: when the book was
                              originally published in 1976, the author called
                              himself "Daniel Grotta-Kurska;" on reprinting, for
                              some reason he dropped the hyphenation.
                            • David Bratman
                              ... Other way around: the first edition was signed Grotta-Kurska, the latter editions Grotta. It wasn t him, under either name, who came up with the
                              Message 14 of 24 , Mar 15, 2007
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                                At 09:35 PM 3/15/2007 -0400, Wayne G. Hammond wrote:

                                >Daniel Grotta later expanded his surname to Grotta-Kurska, under which
                                >later editions of his book have been published.

                                Other way around: the first edition was signed Grotta-Kurska, the latter
                                editions Grotta.

                                It wasn't him, under either name, who came up with the Mabel-in-Zanzibar
                                story: that comes, if I recall, from William Ready (an outstandingly bad
                                book), and has been picked up by various other would-be Tolkien biographers
                                since.

                                Grotta does, as John Rateliff notes, have a few useful tidbits here and
                                there, which makes his book of some modest value to the advanced student.
                                But overall it's one of maybe a dozen extraordinarily dubious books that
                                call themselves Tolkien biographies, which are best avoided. These books
                                either rehash Humphrey Carpenter's biography, in which case Carpenter does
                                it better, or invent new material which is simply wrong. Thus, where they
                                are true, they are not original; and where they are original, they are not
                                true.

                                The list of WORTHWHILE books on Tolkien's life is very small and consists of:
                                1. Humphrey Carpenter, Tolkien: A Biography (and, supplementarily, his The
                                Inklings)
                                2. John Garth, Tolkien and the Great War
                                3. Christina Scull and Wayne G. Hammond, J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide
                                4. John and Priscilla Tolkien, The Tolkien Family Album

                                That's the good stuff; that's it. A few of the better critical books also
                                have reliable biographical material, but that's secondary to their function.

                                David Bratman
                              • Wayne G. Hammond
                                ... Yes, of course. ... It was indeed Ready who made this claim, which has no foundation. Wayne [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                Message 15 of 24 , Mar 16, 2007
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                                  David wrote:

                                  >Other way around: the first edition was signed Grotta-Kurska, the latter
                                  >editions Grotta.

                                  Yes, of course.

                                  >It wasn't him, under either name, who came up with the Mabel-in-Zanzibar
                                  >story: that comes, if I recall, from William Ready (an outstandingly bad
                                  >book), and has been picked up by various other would-be Tolkien biographers
                                  >since.

                                  It was indeed Ready who made this claim, which has no foundation.

                                  Wayne


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Kim Jaudon
                                  Hello all! I ve not been a member of this group for long. I ve been unable to find a local group of individuals willing to enter into the discussions that
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Mar 16, 2007
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                                    Hello all! I've not been a member of this group for long. I've been unable to find a local group of individuals willing to enter into the discussions that this wise group does, and so I am enjoying reading your posts a great deal.

                                    I have a question. There is a new book out, The Company They Keep: C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien as Writers in Community, by Glyer, that looks fairly good. I'm wondering if anyone has read it yet, and if you could give a recommendation about purchasing it?

                                    I've read both Carpenter's books and loved them, and must confess that I "use" more than simply read Christina Scull and Wayne Hammond's wonderful set (although - why did it take Amazon so long to get me my copies?). I would like to avoid spending precious time with books that aren't first rate. Any guidance would be appreciated.

                                    Thanks!

                                    Kim Jaudon

                                    David Bratman <dbratman@...> wrote:
                                    At 09:35 PM 3/15/2007 -0400, Wayne G. Hammond wrote:

                                    >Daniel Grotta later expanded his surname to Grotta-Kurska, under which
                                    >later editions of his book have been published.

                                    Other way around: the first edition was signed Grotta-Kurska, the latter
                                    editions Grotta.

                                    It wasn't him, under either name, who came up with the Mabel-in-Zanzibar
                                    story: that comes, if I recall, from William Ready (an outstandingly bad
                                    book), and has been picked up by various other would-be Tolkien biographers
                                    since.

                                    Grotta does, as John Rateliff notes, have a few useful tidbits here and
                                    there, which makes his book of some modest value to the advanced student.
                                    But overall it's one of maybe a dozen extraordinarily dubious books that
                                    call themselves Tolkien biographies, which are best avoided. These books
                                    either rehash Humphrey Carpenter's biography, in which case Carpenter does
                                    it better, or invent new material which is simply wrong. Thus, where they
                                    are true, they are not original; and where they are original, they are not
                                    true.

                                    The list of WORTHWHILE books on Tolkien's life is very small and consists of:
                                    1. Humphrey Carpenter, Tolkien: A Biography (and, supplementarily, his The
                                    Inklings)
                                    2. John Garth, Tolkien and the Great War
                                    3. Christina Scull and Wayne G. Hammond, J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide
                                    4. John and Priscilla Tolkien, The Tolkien Family Album

                                    That's the good stuff; that's it. A few of the better critical books also
                                    have reliable biographical material, but that's secondary to their function.

                                    David Bratman






                                    ---------------------------------
                                    Be a PS3 game guru.
                                    Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Bonnie Callahan
                                    Hi to Kim & all of you: For those of you who are in Los Angeles County, we have the Mydgard branch, which traces its roots clear back to 1970. The SF Bay area
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Mar 16, 2007
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                                      Hi to Kim & all of you:

                                      For those of you who are in Los Angeles County, we
                                      have the Mydgard branch, which traces its roots clear
                                      back to 1970. The SF Bay area has Khazad-Dum.

                                      I encourage anyone in the rest of the country to
                                      consider organizing groups. We could really use them
                                      in places like Boston & NYC, the heartland places like
                                      Denver, etc. We longtime members are glad to mentor
                                      anyone in such efforts!

                                      I saw how simple (if ambitious) it was to organize
                                      branch after branch in 1968-71, and even recorded
                                      minutes for the nonprofit status organizational
                                      meetings of the Mythsoc.

                                      Here's to you all!

                                      Cheers,
                                      Bonnie Callahan
                                      *********

                                      --- Kim Jaudon <kim4fsu@...> wrote:

                                      > Hello all! I've not been a member of this group for
                                      > long. I've been unable to find a local group of
                                      > individuals willing to enter into the discussions
                                      > that this wise group does, and so I am enjoying
                                      > reading your posts a great deal.
                                      >
                                      > I have a question. There is a new book out, The
                                      > Company They Keep: C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien as
                                      > Writers in Community, by Glyer, that looks fairly
                                      > good. I'm wondering if anyone has read it yet, and
                                      > if you could give a recommendation about purchasing
                                      > it?
                                      >
                                      > I've read both Carpenter's books and loved them,
                                      > and must confess that I "use" more than simply read
                                      > Christina Scull and Wayne Hammond's wonderful set
                                      > (although - why did it take Amazon so long to get me
                                      > my copies?). I would like to avoid spending
                                      > precious time with books that aren't first rate.
                                      > Any guidance would be appreciated.
                                      >
                                      > Thanks!
                                      >
                                      > Kim Jaudon
                                      >
                                      > David Bratman <dbratman@...> wrote:
                                      > At 09:35 PM 3/15/2007 -0400, Wayne G.
                                      > Hammond wrote:
                                      >
                                      > >Daniel Grotta later expanded his surname to
                                      > Grotta-Kurska, under which
                                      > >later editions of his book have been published.
                                      >
                                      > Other way around: the first edition was signed
                                      > Grotta-Kurska, the latter
                                      > editions Grotta.
                                      >
                                      > It wasn't him, under either name, who came up with
                                      > the Mabel-in-Zanzibar
                                      > story: that comes, if I recall, from William Ready
                                      > (an outstandingly bad
                                      > book), and has been picked up by various other
                                      > would-be Tolkien biographers
                                      > since.
                                      >
                                      > Grotta does, as John Rateliff notes, have a few
                                      > useful tidbits here and
                                      > there, which makes his book of some modest value to
                                      > the advanced student.
                                      > But overall it's one of maybe a dozen
                                      > extraordinarily dubious books that
                                      > call themselves Tolkien biographies, which are best
                                      > avoided. These books
                                      > either rehash Humphrey Carpenter's biography, in
                                      > which case Carpenter does
                                      > it better, or invent new material which is simply
                                      > wrong. Thus, where they
                                      > are true, they are not original; and where they are
                                      > original, they are not
                                      > true.
                                      >
                                      > The list of WORTHWHILE books on Tolkien's life is
                                      > very small and consists of:
                                      > 1. Humphrey Carpenter, Tolkien: A Biography (and,
                                      > supplementarily, his The
                                      > Inklings)
                                      > 2. John Garth, Tolkien and the Great War
                                      > 3. Christina Scull and Wayne G. Hammond, J.R.R.
                                      > Tolkien Companion and Guide
                                      > 4. John and Priscilla Tolkien, The Tolkien Family
                                      > Album
                                      >
                                      > That's the good stuff; that's it. A few of the
                                      > better critical books also
                                      > have reliable biographical material, but that's
                                      > secondary to their function.
                                      >
                                      > David Bratman
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ---------------------------------
                                      > Be a PS3 game guru.
                                      > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and
                                      > previews at Yahoo! Games.
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                      > removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • WendellWag@aol.com
                                      In a message dated 3/16/2007 8:25:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kim4fsu@yahoo.com writes: I have a question. There is a new book out, The Company They Keep:
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Mar 17, 2007
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                                        In a message dated 3/16/2007 8:25:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                        kim4fsu@... writes:

                                        I have a question. There is a new book out, The Company They Keep: C.S.
                                        Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien as Writers in Community, by Glyer, that looks fairly
                                        good. I'm wondering if anyone has read it yet, and if you could give a
                                        recommendation about purchasing it?



                                        Diana Glyer is a long-time member of the Mythopoeic Society, and she has
                                        presented bits of this book as talks at Mythcon. I've been asking her for
                                        several years now when this book will come out. I haven't read it yet, but from
                                        what I know of it I think it's going to be a great book.

                                        Wendell Wagner



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                                      • WendellWag@aol.com
                                        In a message dated 3/15/2007 6:25:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sacnoth@earthlink.net writes: Well, for one thing Tolkien s mother was never a missionary to
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Mar 17, 2007
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                                          In a message dated 3/15/2007 6:25:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                          sacnoth@... writes:

                                          Well, for one thing Tolkien's mother was never a missionary to the
                                          harem of the Sultan of Zanzibar.
                                          Grotta-Kurska is very readable, and he deserves points for
                                          including information in the back about how to contact the various
                                          Tolkien societies existing at the time. But unlike Carpenter, who had
                                          access to more biographical information than he could fit into one
                                          book, Grotta-Kurska'book, Grotta-Kurska'<WBR>s unauthorized effort had to
                                          he could from public sources such as old interviews, with all the
                                          hazards than implies. He's better than HC on the Leeds period and
                                          also does a good job giving background on things Carpenter didn't
                                          think needed explaining (e.g., how Oxford University differs from an
                                          American college), but HC trumps him on just about every other point.
                                          So if you're only going to read one biography of JRRT, Carpenter's is
                                          the way to go.
                                          Of course, given your interest in CSL as well, you'd probably
                                          enjoy Carpenter's follow-up book, THE INKLINGS, which covers Lewis
                                          and Charles Williams. And, although harder to find, Warnie Lewis's
                                          diaries BROTHERS & FRIENDS is an excellent read and gives a vivid
                                          "you are there" window into Inkling meetings, life at the Kiln, and
                                          much more.
                                          One older but still excellent book on Tolkien's work is Paul
                                          Kocher's MASTER OF MIDDLE-EARTH; Verlyn Flieger's recent INTERRUPTED
                                          MUSIC is also superb.



                                          Thanks, John. I've read (although it's been a long time now) the Grotta
                                          book, both Carpenter books, and the Kocher book you mention. I've got the
                                          Warnie Lewis book and the Flieger book but haven't read them yet.

                                          Wendell Wagner



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                                        • Sara Ciborski
                                          Dear Kim, If you have the Scull and Hammond Companion and Guide you have access to good guidance from trustworthy judges about what books are first rate: in
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Mar 17, 2007
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                                            Dear Kim,
                                            If you have the Scull and Hammond Companion and Guide you have access to
                                            good guidance from trustworthy judges about what books are first rate: in
                                            the "Works Consulted" section you will find daggers by selected entries;
                                            these are the ones they "consider...particularly useful for an appreciation
                                            of Tolkein's life and works." You won't waste your time with any of these.
                                            Sara Ciborski




                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: "Kim Jaudon" <kim4fsu@...>
                                            To: <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 7:18 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: new member introducing herself


                                            > Hello all! I've not been a member of this group for long. I've been
                                            unable to find a local group of individuals willing to enter into the
                                            discussions that this wise group does, and so I am enjoying reading your
                                            posts a great deal.
                                            >
                                            > I have a question. There is a new book out, The Company They Keep:
                                            C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien as Writers in Community, by Glyer, that looks
                                            fairly good. I'm wondering if anyone has read it yet, and if you could give
                                            a recommendation about purchasing it?
                                            >
                                            > I've read both Carpenter's books and loved them, and must confess that I
                                            "use" more than simply read Christina Scull and Wayne Hammond's wonderful
                                            set (although - why did it take Amazon so long to get me my copies?). I
                                            would like to avoid spending precious time with books that aren't first
                                            rate. Any guidance would be appreciated.
                                            >
                                            > Thanks!
                                            >
                                            > Kim Jaudon
                                          • WendellWag@aol.com
                                            In a message dated 3/16/2007 8:25:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kim4fsu@yahoo.com writes: Hello all! I ve not been a member of this group for long. I ve been
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Mar 17, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              In a message dated 3/16/2007 8:25:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                              kim4fsu@... writes:

                                              Hello all! I've not been a member of this group for long. I've been unable
                                              to find a local group of individuals willing to enter into the discussions
                                              that this wise group does, and so I am enjoying reading your posts a great deal.


                                              Where do you live? Tell us and we'll be able to tell you if there are any
                                              Mythopoeic Society discussion groups near where you live.

                                              Wendell Wagner



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                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Kim Jaudon
                                              I live in Des Moines, Iowa. It s actually quite a nice city despite the horrid weather. I couldn t find any groups on the Mythopoeic site (I recently joined
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Mar 17, 2007
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                                                I live in Des Moines, Iowa. It's actually quite a nice city despite the horrid weather. I couldn't find any groups on the Mythopoeic site (I recently joined that society). It would be great if there was an existing group nearby.

                                                I assumed starting a group would be tough to do, however, if there's nothing in the area right now I'm more than willing to give it a go. I must admit to a certain..trepidation...though. I feel I have far more to learn than to offer at this point. Still, there may be others in the area with the same desires I have. Any help you folks are willing to give would be greatly appreciated.

                                                Thanks so much!

                                                Kim



                                                WendellWag@... wrote:

                                                In a message dated 3/16/2007 8:25:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                                kim4fsu@... writes:

                                                Hello all! I've not been a member of this group for long. I've been unable
                                                to find a local group of individuals willing to enter into the discussions
                                                that this wise group does, and so I am enjoying reading your posts a great deal.

                                                Where do you live? Tell us and we'll be able to tell you if there are any
                                                Mythopoeic Society discussion groups near where you live.

                                                Wendell Wagner

                                                ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone.
                                                Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com

                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                                ---------------------------------
                                                8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
                                                with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • David Emerson
                                                ... Well, you re halfway between the Far Westfarthing Smial in Peoria, and Rivendel in Minneapolis/StPaul, if you don t mind a 4-hour drive either way... :-)
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Mar 17, 2007
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                                                  >I live in Des Moines, Iowa. ... It would be great if there was an existing group nearby.

                                                  Well, you're halfway between the Far Westfarthing Smial in Peoria, and Rivendel in Minneapolis/StPaul, if you don't mind a 4-hour drive either way... :-)

                                                  Naw, go ahead and start one of your own. It'll be fun!



                                                  emerdavid

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                                                • alexeik@aol.com
                                                  ... From: WendellWag@aol.com To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 4:08 AM Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: new member introducing herself In a message
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Mar 17, 2007
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                    From: WendellWag@...
                                                    To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 4:08 AM
                                                    Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: new member introducing herself


                                                    In a message dated 3/16/2007 8:25:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                                    kim4fsu@... writes:

                                                    I have a question. There is a new book out, The Company They Keep: C.S.
                                                    Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien as Writers in Community, by Glyer, that looks fairly
                                                    good. I'm wondering if anyone has read it yet, and if you could give a
                                                    recommendation about purchasing it?

                                                    Diana Glyer is a long-time member of the Mythopoeic Society, and she has
                                                    presented bits of this book as talks at Mythcon. I've been asking her for
                                                    several years now when this book will come out. I haven't read it yet, but from
                                                    what I know of it I think it's going to be a great book.

                                                    Wendell Wagner <<
                                                    I just got my copy a few days ago. It's quite an exciting and insightful book, as it looks at a lot of familiar material in a completely fresh way. Alexei


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