Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Eorclanstanas (was Re: For JDR: Query on Hobbit geography)

Expand Messages
  • William Cloud Hicklin
    ... identification ... Maidros? ... rather ... Tolkien used Eorclanstanas as his OE translation for Silmarils in HoMe (not handy to cite page numbers,
    Message 1 of 3 , Jan 2, 2007
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fisher
      <visualweasel@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Wild-hare speculation: was there ever a passing
      identification
      > > of the Arkenstone with the Silmaril (eorclanstane) of
      Maidros?
      > > The descriptions are not dissimilar; and the Arkenstone
      rather
      > > singularly appears to be a light-source in "Not At Home."
      >
      > Wild it may be, but I've wondered the same thing. I believe
      Tolkien used "Eorclanstanas" as his OE translation for
      "Silmarils" in HoMe (not handy to cite page numbers, though;
      perhaps someone can help out). Based on that, I think it's
      very natural to wonder about a connection between the
      Arkenstone and Silmarils. In fact, in my original draft of the
      entry "Silmarils" for the Tolkien Encyclopedia, I had written
      a paragraph in speculation on this same point, but I ended up
      cutting it for space (and because it was much more speculative
      than warranted for the entry).
      >

      If we were to push this notion rather harder than it probably
      warrants (remember, we're considering early, unformed
      conceptions), the Ered Wethion-Sirion-Taur-na-Fuin-Dor-na-
      Fauglith geography would place Erebor at - Himling? Maidros'
      home? Although of course even in the first draft of the
      Hobbit Erebor was not drawn as flat-topped nor suitable to be
      crowned with a fortress; and there's no suggestion at all
      where in ruined Beleriand* Maidros stole the Jewel, nor where
      he committed suicide.

      And yet....

      And yet: "The great jewel shone before his feet of its own
      inner light, and yet...it took all light that fell upon it and
      changed it into ten thousand sparks of white radiance shot
      with glints of the rainbow." Compare QS (1937): "Of their own
      radiance they shone even in the dark; yet all lights that fell
      upon them, however faint, they took and reflected in
      marvellous hues."

      Unfortunately for this notion, the words hidden behind my
      ellipsis in the Hobbit quote are "...cut and fashioned by the
      dwarves, who had dug it from the heart of the mountain long
      ago."




      *The destruction of Beleriand ("and Sirion was no more") goes
      back at least to the Qenta (1930), which is problematic for
      the whole notion.
    • Mike Foster
      The notion that the Arkenstone was the missing Silmaril was first suggested to me by John Rateliff during a peripatetic conversation we shared with Taum
      Message 2 of 3 , Jan 2, 2007
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        The notion that the Arkenstone was the missing Silmaril was first
        suggested to me by John Rateliff during a peripatetic conversation we
        shared with Taum Santoski in Milwaukee no later than 1987. Since then,
        I've raised the notion, attributing it to JDR, during discussion of -The
        Silmarillion--in my Tolkien classes as part of JDR's interesting theory
        of Tolkien's 'autoplagiarism.' The Arkenstone, not the Ring, is the
        MacGuffin of -The Hobbit-. In any event, it makes for a lively, if
        inconclusive, discussion.

        Mike
        . -----Original Message-----
        From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of William Cloud Hicklin
        Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 10:04 AM
        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [mythsoc] Eorclanstanas (was Re: For JDR: Query on Hobbit
        geography)

        --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups <mailto:mythsoc%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
        Jason Fisher
        <visualweasel@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Wild-hare speculation: was there ever a passing
        identification
        > > of the Arkenstone with the Silmaril (eorclanstane) of
        Maidros?
        > > The descriptions are not dissimilar; and the Arkenstone
        rather
        > > singularly appears to be a light-source in "Not At Home."
        >
        > Wild it may be, but I've wondered the same thing. I believe
        Tolkien used "Eorclanstanas" as his OE translation for
        "Silmarils" in HoMe (not handy to cite page numbers, though;
        perhaps someone can help out). Based on that, I think it's
        very natural to wonder about a connection between the
        Arkenstone and Silmarils. In fact, in my original draft of the
        entry "Silmarils" for the Tolkien Encyclopedia, I had written
        a paragraph in speculation on this same point, but I ended up
        cutting it for space (and because it was much more speculative
        than warranted for the entry).
        >

        If we were to push this notion rather harder than it probably
        warrants (remember, we're considering early, unformed
        conceptions), the Ered Wethion-Sirion-Taur-na-Fuin-Dor-na-
        Fauglith geography would place Erebor at - Himling? Maidros'
        home? Although of course even in the first draft of the
        Hobbit Erebor was not drawn as flat-topped nor suitable to be
        crowned with a fortress; and there's no suggestion at all
        where in ruined Beleriand* Maidros stole the Jewel, nor where
        he committed suicide.

        And yet....

        And yet: "The great jewel shone before his feet of its own
        inner light, and yet...it took all light that fell upon it and
        changed it into ten thousand sparks of white radiance shot
        with glints of the rainbow." Compare QS (1937): "Of their own
        radiance they shone even in the dark; yet all lights that fell
        upon them, however faint, they took and reflected in
        marvellous hues."

        Unfortunately for this notion, the words hidden behind my
        ellipsis in the Hobbit quote are "...cut and fashioned by the
        dwarves, who had dug it from the heart of the mountain long
        ago."

        *The destruction of Beleriand ("and Sirion was no more") goes
        back at least to the Qenta (1930), which is problematic for
        the whole notion.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.