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Eorclanstanas (was Re: For JDR: Query on Hobbit geography)

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  • Jason Fisher
    ... Wild it may be, but I ve wondered the same thing. I believe Tolkien used Eorclanstanas as his OE translation for Silmarils in HoMe (not handy to cite
    Message 1 of 3 , Jan 2, 2007
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      > Wild-hare speculation: was there ever a passing identification
      > of the Arkenstone with the Silmaril (eorclanstane) of Maidros?
      > The descriptions are not dissimilar; and the Arkenstone rather
      > singularly appears to be a light-source in "Not At Home."

      Wild it may be, but I've wondered the same thing. I believe Tolkien used "Eorclanstanas" as his OE translation for "Silmarils" in HoMe (not handy to cite page numbers, though; perhaps someone can help out). Based on that, I think it's very natural to wonder about a connection between the Arkenstone and Silmarils. In fact, in my original draft of the entry "Silmarils" for the Tolkien Encyclopedia, I had written a paragraph in speculation on this same point, but I ended up cutting it for space (and because it was much more speculative than warranted for the entry).

      Jason Fisher

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • William Cloud Hicklin
      ... identification ... Maidros? ... rather ... Tolkien used Eorclanstanas as his OE translation for Silmarils in HoMe (not handy to cite page numbers,
      Message 2 of 3 , Jan 2, 2007
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        --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fisher
        <visualweasel@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Wild-hare speculation: was there ever a passing
        identification
        > > of the Arkenstone with the Silmaril (eorclanstane) of
        Maidros?
        > > The descriptions are not dissimilar; and the Arkenstone
        rather
        > > singularly appears to be a light-source in "Not At Home."
        >
        > Wild it may be, but I've wondered the same thing. I believe
        Tolkien used "Eorclanstanas" as his OE translation for
        "Silmarils" in HoMe (not handy to cite page numbers, though;
        perhaps someone can help out). Based on that, I think it's
        very natural to wonder about a connection between the
        Arkenstone and Silmarils. In fact, in my original draft of the
        entry "Silmarils" for the Tolkien Encyclopedia, I had written
        a paragraph in speculation on this same point, but I ended up
        cutting it for space (and because it was much more speculative
        than warranted for the entry).
        >

        If we were to push this notion rather harder than it probably
        warrants (remember, we're considering early, unformed
        conceptions), the Ered Wethion-Sirion-Taur-na-Fuin-Dor-na-
        Fauglith geography would place Erebor at - Himling? Maidros'
        home? Although of course even in the first draft of the
        Hobbit Erebor was not drawn as flat-topped nor suitable to be
        crowned with a fortress; and there's no suggestion at all
        where in ruined Beleriand* Maidros stole the Jewel, nor where
        he committed suicide.

        And yet....

        And yet: "The great jewel shone before his feet of its own
        inner light, and yet...it took all light that fell upon it and
        changed it into ten thousand sparks of white radiance shot
        with glints of the rainbow." Compare QS (1937): "Of their own
        radiance they shone even in the dark; yet all lights that fell
        upon them, however faint, they took and reflected in
        marvellous hues."

        Unfortunately for this notion, the words hidden behind my
        ellipsis in the Hobbit quote are "...cut and fashioned by the
        dwarves, who had dug it from the heart of the mountain long
        ago."




        *The destruction of Beleriand ("and Sirion was no more") goes
        back at least to the Qenta (1930), which is problematic for
        the whole notion.
      • Mike Foster
        The notion that the Arkenstone was the missing Silmaril was first suggested to me by John Rateliff during a peripatetic conversation we shared with Taum
        Message 3 of 3 , Jan 2, 2007
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          The notion that the Arkenstone was the missing Silmaril was first
          suggested to me by John Rateliff during a peripatetic conversation we
          shared with Taum Santoski in Milwaukee no later than 1987. Since then,
          I've raised the notion, attributing it to JDR, during discussion of -The
          Silmarillion--in my Tolkien classes as part of JDR's interesting theory
          of Tolkien's 'autoplagiarism.' The Arkenstone, not the Ring, is the
          MacGuffin of -The Hobbit-. In any event, it makes for a lively, if
          inconclusive, discussion.

          Mike
          . -----Original Message-----
          From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          Of William Cloud Hicklin
          Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 10:04 AM
          To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [mythsoc] Eorclanstanas (was Re: For JDR: Query on Hobbit
          geography)

          --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups <mailto:mythsoc%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
          Jason Fisher
          <visualweasel@...> wrote:
          >
          > > Wild-hare speculation: was there ever a passing
          identification
          > > of the Arkenstone with the Silmaril (eorclanstane) of
          Maidros?
          > > The descriptions are not dissimilar; and the Arkenstone
          rather
          > > singularly appears to be a light-source in "Not At Home."
          >
          > Wild it may be, but I've wondered the same thing. I believe
          Tolkien used "Eorclanstanas" as his OE translation for
          "Silmarils" in HoMe (not handy to cite page numbers, though;
          perhaps someone can help out). Based on that, I think it's
          very natural to wonder about a connection between the
          Arkenstone and Silmarils. In fact, in my original draft of the
          entry "Silmarils" for the Tolkien Encyclopedia, I had written
          a paragraph in speculation on this same point, but I ended up
          cutting it for space (and because it was much more speculative
          than warranted for the entry).
          >

          If we were to push this notion rather harder than it probably
          warrants (remember, we're considering early, unformed
          conceptions), the Ered Wethion-Sirion-Taur-na-Fuin-Dor-na-
          Fauglith geography would place Erebor at - Himling? Maidros'
          home? Although of course even in the first draft of the
          Hobbit Erebor was not drawn as flat-topped nor suitable to be
          crowned with a fortress; and there's no suggestion at all
          where in ruined Beleriand* Maidros stole the Jewel, nor where
          he committed suicide.

          And yet....

          And yet: "The great jewel shone before his feet of its own
          inner light, and yet...it took all light that fell upon it and
          changed it into ten thousand sparks of white radiance shot
          with glints of the rainbow." Compare QS (1937): "Of their own
          radiance they shone even in the dark; yet all lights that fell
          upon them, however faint, they took and reflected in
          marvellous hues."

          Unfortunately for this notion, the words hidden behind my
          ellipsis in the Hobbit quote are "...cut and fashioned by the
          dwarves, who had dug it from the heart of the mountain long
          ago."

          *The destruction of Beleriand ("and Sirion was no more") goes
          back at least to the Qenta (1930), which is problematic for
          the whole notion.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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