Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [mythsoc] Some Interesting Issues

Expand Messages
  • John D Rateliff
    ... Indeed, one of the very best Tolkien scholars I ve ever known made his living as a bartender. And as for professors straying from their nominal field, I
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 3, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      On Dec 1, 2006, at 10:40 AM, David Bratman wrote:
      > . . . Tolkien scholarship is
      > simply packed with "independent scholars", as they're called, who
      > have no
      > professorial affiliation but who've done excellent work.

      Indeed, one of the very best Tolkien scholars I've ever known made
      his living as a bartender. And as for professors straying from their
      nominal field, I believe Paul Kocher, who wrote the best of the early
      books on Tolkien, was a specialist in Elizabethan lit, while Dr.
      Blackwelder was a zoologist with a special interest in taxonomy.
      --JDR
    • William Cloud Hicklin
      ... called, who ... known made ... from their ... of the early ... while Dr. ... taxonomy. ... ....and one of the leading, if not the leading, contributors of
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 4, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, John D Rateliff
        <sacnoth@...> wrote:
        >
        > On Dec 1, 2006, at 10:40 AM, David Bratman wrote:
        > > . . . Tolkien scholarship is
        > > simply packed with "independent scholars", as they're
        called, who
        > > have no
        > > professorial affiliation but who've done excellent work.
        >
        > Indeed, one of the very best Tolkien scholars I've ever
        known made
        > his living as a bartender. And as for professors straying
        from their
        > nominal field, I believe Paul Kocher, who wrote the best
        of the early
        > books on Tolkien, was a specialist in Elizabethan lit,
        while Dr.
        > Blackwelder was a zoologist with a special interest in
        taxonomy.
        > --JDR
        >

        ....and one of the leading, if not the leading, contributors
        of citations to the Oxford English Dictionary was a
        committed inmate in a madhouse. I suppose this should make
        us all feel better.

        For that matter, the great Murray himself was by background
        a bank clerk.
      • Lezlie
        Just my 2 cents: It is also true that academics are required to publish & present at conferences as a part of their employment. They get right testy in
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 4, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Just my 2 cents:

          It is also true that academics are required to publish & present at
          conferences as a part of their employment. They get right testy in
          guarding their research and frustrated in obtaining access to private
          collections -- especially if that collection is some distance away
          from home & the research is not supported in some really grounded way.
          You may have witnessed this phenomenon in action.

          They also often have to purchase copy from their publishers for review
          by their departments or for other reasons. In the US, because the job
          market is so very tight, some fields are full of "independent
          scholars" who write, publish, present, and teach either part time
          (because they can't do otherwise) at several institutions, or work in
          the private sector. It is much harder to gain access to libraries or
          to conduct studies in -- say -- psychology without a recognized IRB to
          review the proposals, or to grant write -- but, that seems to be the
          way things are going.
          If you are a new Ph.D. the publishing & presentation part will a)
          leave you broke b) cause your friends and relations to counsel you to
          find a different occupation and c) is **also** required in order to
          land that job somewhere that might get you tenure. Maybe. If you are
          very lucky.

          Some universities insist that Profs. also do a lot of grant writing
          and are reviewed on how much they've contributed to their departments
          in terms of $$ in order to remain employed. Personally, I don't
          begrudge the extra $$ Ph.Ds, Profs. & other teaching faculty make off
          the occasional paying publication, be it about Tolkien or otherwise.

          The sad part is that scholars do all of these things and still don't
          get appointments and start believing that they are somehow deficit in
          either education or something else and go out and get more educated or
          leave their respective fields to teach K-12, work in the private
          sector, or even sling hash. In one case that I know of, she became a
          lawyer. It isn't a pretty picture for the state of original research
          being done in a supported way in **anyone's** field. Lezlie <in the
          middle of it all>




          --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Walter Padgett" <wpadgett@...> wrote:
          >
          > Yes. I'm with you guys on this.
          >
          > I don't suppose Dickens scholars, (or Hemingway scholars or any
          other lovers
          > of a group of author's works, for that matter), "make a living" out
          of their
          > scholarship on such. Professors get paid for *teaching*, too.
          Underpaid
          > Ph.D.'s have choices about how they are going to make a living, and more
          > opportunities than they imagine, I would guess (generalizing).
          >
          > The context of the conflict: The one point is to make a living.
          The other
          > point is to do scholarship (or theory or criticism) from the heart,
          and not
          > have it be bound up with the necessity of meeting life's demands,
          whatever
          > the medium of exchange we decide to use for economic purposes.
          >
          > Doing Inkling scholarship almost always just comes naturally to
          these folks,
          > regardless of the money, property or prestige it may involve.
          >
          > I think any of us can get a little testy when we have something at
          stake in
          > the game, but money doesn't seem to have a lot to do with that.
          >
          > Thanks, Walter.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > On 12/2/06, WendellWag@... <WendellWag@...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > In a message dated 12/1/2006 2:18:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
          > > dbratman@... <dbratman%40earthlink.net> writes:
          > >
          > > He's not a programmer. A sneering article attacking the editors of the
          > > Tolkien linguistic material once described him as "a record store
          clerk,"
          > > but while he does work at a record store his position is more
          responsible
          > > than that. And the article distinctly failed to mention that he has a
          > > Ph.D. in Germanic linguistics. (He should be a professor
          somewhere, but
          > > have you seen the job market lately? There's a lot of
          underemployed Ph.D.s
          > > out there.)
          > >
          > > You're right, and I think I even knew that. I may have gotten him
          mixed up
          > >
          > > with Christopher Gilson, one of the other major Tolkien linguists,
          who is
          > > a
          > > programmer, I believe. And to complete the set of major Tolkien
          linguists,
          > >
          > > there's Patrick Wynne, who does something associated with dentistry
          > > (dental
          > > assistant, manufacturer of false teeth, anyway something
          associated with
          > > dentistry but not a dentist). In any case, the point is that most
          of us
          > > don't make
          > > our living out of the Inklings.
          > >
          > > Wendell Wagner
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Walter Padgett
          Hi! I am reminded here of Michael D.C. Drout s blog, which talks (in places) about Civility in Academia -- the context is the hiring process that academic
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 5, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi!

            I am reminded here of Michael D.C. Drout's blog, which talks (in
            places) about "Civility in Academia"-- the context is the hiring
            process that academic departments go through when hiring academics.
            No academic, it seems upon reflection, should want to be an academic.
            Check his site: http://acunix.wheatonma.edu/mdrout/

            Thanks, Walter.

            On 12/4/06, Lezlie <lezlie1@...> wrote:
            >
            > Just my 2 cents:
            >
            > It is also true that academics are required to publish & present at
            > conferences as a part of their employment. They get right testy in
            > guarding their research and frustrated in obtaining access to private
            > collections -- especially if that collection is some distance away
            > from home & the research is not supported in some really grounded way.
            > You may have witnessed this phenomenon in action.
            >
            > They also often have to purchase copy from their publishers for review
            > by their departments or for other reasons. In the US, because the job
            > market is so very tight, some fields are full of "independent
            > scholars" who write, publish, present, and teach either part time
            > (because they can't do otherwise) at several institutions, or work in
            > the private sector. It is much harder to gain access to libraries or
            > to conduct studies in -- say -- psychology without a recognized IRB to
            > review the proposals, or to grant write -- but, that seems to be the
            > way things are going.
            > If you are a new Ph.D. the publishing & presentation part will a)
            > leave you broke b) cause your friends and relations to counsel you to
            > find a different occupation and c) is **also** required in order to
            > land that job somewhere that might get you tenure. Maybe. If you are
            > very lucky.
            >
            > Some universities insist that Profs. also do a lot of grant writing
            > and are reviewed on how much they've contributed to their departments
            > in terms of $$ in order to remain employed. Personally, I don't
            > begrudge the extra $$ Ph.Ds, Profs. & other teaching faculty make off
            > the occasional paying publication, be it about Tolkien or otherwise.
            >
            > The sad part is that scholars do all of these things and still don't
            > get appointments and start believing that they are somehow deficit in
            > either education or something else and go out and get more educated or
            > leave their respective fields to teach K-12, work in the private
            > sector, or even sling hash. In one case that I know of, she became a
            > lawyer. It isn't a pretty picture for the state of original research
            > being done in a supported way in **anyone's** field. Lezlie <in the
            > middle of it all>
            ...
          • Merlin DeTardo
            Walter: Is Civility in Academia a quote from Michael Drout? If so, could you point me to a link? I m having trouble finding the phrase on either his blog
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 5, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Walter:

              Is "Civility in Academia" a quote from Michael Drout? If so, could
              you point me to a link? I'm having trouble finding the phrase on
              either his blog or site. I did read the post to which you referred,
              where responding to the woes of a graduate student who goes by the
              nickname "Ancrene Wiseass", he offers tips for academic job-seekers:

              http://wormtalk.blogspot.com/2006/11/dreaded-and-dreadful-job-search-
              last.html

              Thanks,

              Merlin DeTardo


              --- "Walter Padgett" <wpadgett@...> wrote:
              > I am reminded here of Michael D.C. Drout's blog, which talks (in
              places) about "Civility in Academia" -- the context is the hiring
              process that academic departments go through when hiring academics.
              No academic, it seems upon reflection, should want to be an
              academic. Check his site: http://acunix.wheatonma.edu/mdrout/
            • Walter Padgett
              Yes, I ll see if I can find that thread in his blog... ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 6, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Yes, I'll see if I can find that thread in his blog...

                On 12/5/06, Merlin DeTardo <emptyD@...> wrote:
                >
                > Walter:
                >
                > Is "Civility in Academia" a quote from Michael Drout? If so, could
                > you point me to a link? I'm having trouble finding the phrase on
                > either his blog or site. I did read the post to which you referred,
                > where responding to the woes of a graduate student who goes by the
                > nickname "Ancrene Wiseass", he offers tips for academic job-seekers:
                >
                > http://wormtalk.blogspot.com/2006/11/dreaded-and-dreadful-job-search-
                > last.html
                >
                > Thanks,
                >
                > Merlin DeTardo
                >
                > --- "Walter Padgett" <wpadgett@...> wrote:
                > > I am reminded here of Michael D.C. Drout's blog, which talks (in
                > places) about "Civility in Academia" -- the context is the hiring
                > process that academic departments go through when hiring academics.
                > No academic, it seems upon reflection, should want to be an
                > academic. Check his site: http://acunix.wheatonma.edu/mdrout/
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.